aftermath of Francis fight: a lesson in how corporate PR works

We should all accuse people with a different position as being paid by the other side. It’s lazy shit on a message board.
lol @ different position. Are you talking about yourself? You spent literally years of your life defending USADA while your company employed them. Now you have not ONE word to say positive about them since they became the PR enemy.

Are you schizophrenic? Why are you self-hating with your 180 degree positions?
 
lol @ different position. Are you talking about yourself? You spent literally years of your life defending USADA while your company employed them. Now you have not ONE word to say positive about them since they became the PR enemy.

Are you schizophrenic? Why are you self-hating with your 180 degree positions?
Lol at my company. You’re a moron. Have you seen me say anything bad about usada?

morons like you said they would do whatever the ufc told them to do for all the money they were getting under the table. Guess that’s not the case?
 
Lol at my company. You’re a moron. Have you seen me say anything bad about usada?

morons like you said they would do whatever the ufc told them to do for all the money they were getting under the table. Guess that’s not the case?
lol what does that even mean? you need me to call a hospital for you / are you mid-stroke?

Don't worry. Just go into work tomorrow and tell the boss "but I tried". You may have to take a pay cut but at least they'll still buy you that "well he tried" sympathy cake on your birthday.
 
We should all accuse people with a different position as being paid by the other side. It’s lazy shit on a message board.
Hey, I hope you're an independent actor. He seems to be saying that it's not your difference of opinion, but consistency in backing UFCTKO and USADA, as well as allegations of copying and pasting the same information into diff threads. Now I have not, and will not, do my own research on this, so I'm not saying he's right or wrong. But I don't think it's as simple as having an opposing opinion.

That said, I haven't looked deeply into the allegations against you, lol, so I might be wrong. I do find this amusing though. Especially that others are joining in with the allegations. What could you have been saying in all these posts, that I've been totally missing, that's got so many ppl suspicious about whether or not you work for UFCTKO?

On a "pure comedy" level, I hope you can at least see the humour. I remain neutral.
 
lol what does that even mean? you need me to call a hospital for you / are you mid-stroke?

Don't worry. Just go into work tomorrow and tell the boss "but I tried". You may have to take a pay cut but at least they'll still buy you that "well he tried" sympathy cake on your birthday.
Like I said you’re a fuckin moron. Do I need to dumb it down for you further?
 
Thing is the UFC invests so little and is so shit in marketing,promoting fighters or even caring about their product that I doubt they care enough to shill on the dog
 
Hey, I hope you're an independent actor. He seems to be saying that it's not your difference of opinion, but consistency in backing UFCTKO and USADA, as well as allegations of copying and pasting the same information into diff threads. Now I have not, and will not, do my own research on this, so I'm not saying he's right or wrong. But I don't think it's as simple as having an opposing opinion.

That said, I haven't looked deeply into the allegations against you, lol, so I might be wrong. I do find this amusing though. Especially that others are joining in with the allegations. What could you have been saying in all these posts, that I've been totally missing, that's got so many ppl suspicious about whether or not you work for UFCTKO?

On a "pure comedy" level, I hope you can at least see the humour. I remain neutral.
I’m not going to defend myself to you. I can tell you for certain he’s a nut job.
 
I’m not going to defend myself to you. I can tell you for certain he’s a nut job.
Brother, I would have it no other way. I've never had beef with you so I'm not kicking while you're down and I don't require a defense. I'll just peep game and send you positive energy. May the truth come out - whatever it is.
 
@acannxr is hands down one of the best posters on this site. He makes great posts based on legit metrics and solid analysis and raises the level of conversation on this site overall. You should definitely check out his threads
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@acannxr is a paid shill for Tapology or Fight Matrix (I forget which thing he is always citing for his rankings and stuff).

(yes I am kidding, you make good posts and I'm glad to see you source these things.)


This is what I'm kinda curious about as well.
To be fair, I have always been transparent with my opinion that I don't think FightMatrix is perfect, but it's the best rankings available.

Tapology is actually laughably flawed because they don't remove inactive fighters for decades at a time (James Toney was still ranked at Heavyweight over 10 years after his only MMA bout against Couture).
 
@kflo vs @Dionysian
-Lets get a Power-Slap match between you two gents? All proceeds go to charity and I would even volunteer to be a 'Catcher" with Forrest G. Lets make it happen for Sherdog Supremacy and Legacy
 
Nah, he's a shill from Ngannou's management for 80 IQ fans to begin parroting his narrative.....unless you happen to agree. Am I right?

Hey, everyone who's deliberately ignorant about what's being said, raise your hands... oh, Striker Fox, I wish you would have put the fleshlight down first.
 
Hey, I hope you're an independent actor. He seems to be saying that it's not your difference of opinion, but consistency in backing UFCTKO and USADA, as well as allegations of copying and pasting the same information into diff threads. Now I have not, and will not, do my own research on this, so I'm not saying he's right or wrong. But I don't think it's as simple as having an opposing opinion.

That said, I haven't looked deeply into the allegations against you, lol, so I might be wrong. I do find this amusing though. Especially that others are joining in with the allegations. What could you have been saying in all these posts, that I've been totally missing, that's got so many ppl suspicious about whether or not you work for UFCTKO?

On a "pure comedy" level, I hope you can at least see the humour. I remain neutral.

I don't know whether or not kflo is a paid shill, but I'll save you some effort in explaining things to him: his misunderstandings are absolutely intentional.
 
@kflo vs @Dionysian
-Lets get a Power-Slap match between you two gents? All proceeds go to charity and I would even volunteer to be a 'Catcher" with Forrest G. Lets make it happen for Sherdog Supremacy and Legacy


this is a #Spectacular idea and I support it with all of my heart of mine.

Screenshot 2023-10-25 174832.png
 
Thing is the UFC invests so little and is so shit in marketing,promoting fighters or even caring about their product that I doubt they care enough to shill on the dog

They might not care about the quality of their product, but they absolutely care if people are giving them money for their product. And they absolutely do spend money to market the UFC brand and Dana White, they just spend less money marketing their fighters.

And your reasoning doesn't make sense. What's being suggested here is just standard business practises for any big company and corporations like Pepsi wish they had access to a niche base of hardcore fans for their product. The amount of dollars it would take to astroturf on the biggest MMA discussion board would be less than a rounding error for the UFC.
 
@kflo vs @Dionysian
-Lets get a Power-Slap match between you two gents? All proceeds go to charity and I would even volunteer to be a 'Catcher" with Forrest G. Lets make it happen for Sherdog Supremacy and Legacy

this is a #Spectacular idea and I support it with all of my heart of mine.

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Now this is really unfair. If there's one thing that's apparent, it's that Kflo isn't going to be affected by blows to the head. It's just as lopsided as if you tried to set up a spelling bee with them.
 
I was very interested to see the reaction to the Francis fight. We've known that ever since Francis left the org and then on Sherdog he magically went from being parroted as the greatest HW ever to OVERNIGHT becoming a scared person that ducked competition with no knees and 80 years old... that shit wasn't organic in the slightest.

Were you ever curious to know exactly how PR campaigns work online? The Francis/Fury aftermath will be a great example. Here is exactly what we'll see over the next month, I will break down for you how this works:

1. Event happens:
this is what made me fascinated. The event itself was Francis being a fucking hero / showing UFC limitations / a resounding success story. He is essentially flawless from a PR view right now. UFC has a mountain to climb, but hey, they get paid to do that so what slander can they possibly come up with to tear down and minimize that hero?

2. Messaging: The corporation thinks of an idea of what the best message will be. That is why you saw ZERO Francis-bashing posts the night of the fight. No narratives were approved yet / the denigration of Francis had not started. Keep that in mind... zero denigration among Sherdog posters last night. There is a reason for that: no PR messages and organic slander messaging is NON-EXISTENT among fans. Obviously in some instances fans plant hater seeds right away, but in this one Francis was unimpeachable, so now the onus is entirely on the corporation.

3. Seed planting: So this is the phase we're in right now. After the first brainstorming sessions, a few potential points are posted online. Keep in mind this is encouraged to be an experimental process. Yes we get the talking point posts, but employees are encouraged to stray outside of them as well. No reason not to... if you post an odd narrative that doesn't catch on, no harm no foul and it disappears into history. But if you post an unorthodox one that catches on, you could strike PR gold. Only limitation to this is if your employees aren't so intelligent, then they aren't as capable of doing this. I don't think UFC's posters here are all that intelligent personally, which is why they rely so much on copy/paste posting. Anyway, Francis-bashing narratives may not be unified now, as there is still fishing to see what could catch on. I do believe I know the main talking point decided as of this morning however:



I have been open for multiple years now that @kflo and @markg171 are UFC employees, because 100% of every post they make is a comment that directly benefits the UFC and among their 1000s of posts they never do what normal fans do (just talk about fighting). So from this post I think that this message is the corporate gameplan as of this morning.

4. Weed removing/plant growth: Then the business looks to see what flowers. Maybe the simple "Fury is shit, Francis is shit, boxing is shit" angle works. Maybe something else flowers. This will start a week or two from now. Weed removing is attacking threatening narratives. Again, they have their work cut out for them: Francis is a fucking hero. This thread is certainly a weed to them, so if one of the board's mods are truly compromised, they will delete it outright. If that fails, the usual suspects will come in and use "conspiracy theory" personal attacks. Interesting history lesson: did you know that phrase (conspiracy theory) was invented by the CIA in order to demonize/generalize all narratives that went against government-approved (or planted) narratives? Nowadays corporations learned from the best, and use it in the same fashion.

5. Narrative adoption: this is the end goal. In the first few days your employees plant the narratives and they're the ones doing the bulk of posting (IF there is no organic fan hate... this case being a rare example of that!), but a month later (if it works) the employees are no longer posting and then 80-IQ fans begin to parrot the narratives. That is why no bashing narrative existed for Francis last night: there is ZERO organic bashing. There will be more bashing a month from now, but THEN the bulk of that posting will NOT be employees... it will be predominantly the moron fans that parroted the talking points being planted now.

So that is how it works. Get a gameplan going, post the narrative online (and if employee is smart enough, plant whatever else he wants on the side to see if it sticks), wait for the most idiotic portion of the fanbase (which is ideally also the loudest portion of the fanbase) to suck it up, sit back and let them repeat it for eternity. Within any of that, personally attack those who threaten that narrative control. Eventually hope that if the UFC narrative starts at only 10% fan sentiment, it then slowly inches up to 20%, then a year later it is at more than 50% so the contending narrative is eventually defeated.

And that, is PR 101 with corporate posting online. Francis not only knocking down the #1 HW in boxing, but also knocking down the mechanics of UFC's PR machine... go Francis!
UFC canned @kflo last year, that's why he doesn't post anymore
 
Now this is really unfair. If there's one thing that's apparent, it's that Kflo isn't going to be affected by blows to the head. It's just as lopsided as if you tried to set up a spelling bee with them.
Team CT nuts for the win.
 
To be fair, I have always been transparent with my opinion that I don't think FightMatrix is perfect, but it's the best rankings available.

Tapology is actually laughably flawed because they don't remove inactive fighters for decades at a time (James Toney was still ranked at Heavyweight over 10 years after his only MMA bout against Couture).

Yes, yes, you're correct. I don't look at Fight Matrix too often so I couldn't remember which it was. I just think it's funny because your threads about these topics always set people off. There is far too much recency bias in sports in general, fighting is more so for it because of how infrequently the fighters compete. I appreciate the analysis, it's why I come here.

And @Dionysian , I would be curious to hear your take on the why aspect of this. Like I said earlier, I agree that this stuff goes on but it seems to me like something that would not be a fruitful expenditure for a company, even a very wealthy one like the UFCWWE merger. It seems too small of a scale, like it would not be worth the money spent to try to influence a narrative on this small of a scale without it spreading to a more broad crowd.

Is Sherdog that influential? Maybe once upon a time, but nowadays? I'm not sure, truly. The USADA stuff is compelling, particularly participating for 60 pages in a thread. I have been involved in some serious clan flame wars back in the day playing games online, and not small forums either; 60 pages is a lot.

I guess what I'm saying is: why do it here, and why not on places like Twitter, Instagram and Facebook? Not to say they couldn't do both, but why waste the money (and time) on here? What kind of returns do you think they're getting out of trying to influence here? Are there narratives formed here that have travelled elsewhere?

I've had an account for a long time now I guess. I would have been a lurker in '09 before making an account later on. I've never really been active enough to know too many names too closely, though people who have had the same name/profile pics for a long time I'm a little familiar with. There was probably a few years where I was more engaged.

Side note: Used to post on the forums of a site called MMA TKO (was a site where they'd post the fights after they happened) if anyone remembers it. This place was too busy back then, so I went there.
 
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