Media Daniel Cormier defends the UFC regarding Francis Ngannou

[VinceArch]

but I really don't get why people here are circlejerking about Francis like they are getting the millions or something.

That's like, all of Conor's fan boys.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

stop. francis was fighting one of the biggest stars in boxing. tyson could have fought a literal nobody and pulled similar numbers. fact is, frank was a literal nobody to boxing fans, and people who heard of him expected him to lose. the good news is frank massively overperformed in the ring, so he’ll probably be more of a draw going forward.

that’s not a knock on frank of course. he believed in himself. he should believe in himself.

Tyson Fury isn't one of the biggest stars in boxing. Tyson Fury is famous for being the lineal champion not money maker, and his relative lack of popularity is one of his bigger knocks. He was the B-Side when he fought Wilder, and would have been the B-Side against Joshua.

If Fury was one of the biggest stars in boxing and fought a nobody, it would have sold a lot more. Anthony Joshua could fight me and it would still sell 500k. So you're somewhat contradicting yourself.


I have no idea why you're saying stop as if I said something that was incorrect. The fight was on at morning time in USA, so Americans did not buy it. Quite frankly, Francis and Fury's drawing power is irrelevant to my statement. No one draws PPV at that time slot.

 

[chardog]

DC is ensuring job security

it's disgusting, and it is what it is.

 

[chardog]

Tyson Fury isn't one of the biggest stars in boxing. Tyson Fury is famous for being the lineal champion not money maker, and his relative lack of popularity is one of his bigger knocks.

If Fury was one of the biggest stars in boxing and fought a nobody, it would have sold a lot more. Anthony Joshua could fight me and it would still sell 500k. So you're somewhat contradicting yourself.

Fury is a big star, not as big as AJ, but still a big star.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Fury is a big star, not as big as AJ, but still a big star.

Depends on your definition of a "big star", but I can think of a few guys who are bigger draws in boxing, and boxing is already a niche sport, there is a massive drop off after the first few guys.

It's either

A) Fury is a big star, so that means the only way a PPV could draw THAT little is because of the time slot

B) Fury isn't actually a big star

Either way, it doesn't make any sense to be like "SEE NGANNOU IS A SHIT DRAW LMAO!!!!" - because he wasn't even the A side (and no one thinks he is a draw, anyway). Francis is the B-Side in all of these fights, so if a PPV "fails" to draw why on earth would it be his "fault" and not Fury's? That isn't how drawing works.


It didn't even fail, business model around the fight wasn't based on selling PPV's. I am assuming people wanted desperately to be right about Ngannou leaving the UFC being a mistake, and are making a lot of silly excuses. The fight was an absolute success hence why we are talking about it - UFC fans have always over obsessives with USA PPV buy rate because the UFC isn't big enough to actually do well by any other measure. Boxing is bigger than just PPV.

 

[chardog]

Depends on your definition of a "big star", but I can think of a few guys who are bigger draws in boxing, and boxing is already a niche sport, there is a massive drop off after the first few guys.

It's either

A) Fury is a big star, so that means the only way a PPV could draw THAT little is because of the time slot

B) Fury isn't actually a big star

Either way, it doesn't make any sense to be like "SEE NGANNOU IS A SHIT DRAW LMAO!!!!" - because he wasn't even the A side (and no one thinks he is a draw, anyway). Francis is the B-Side in all of these fights, so if a PPV "fails" to draw why on earth would it be his "fault" and not Fury's? That isn't how drawing works.


It didn't even fail, business model around the fight wasn't based on selling PPV's. I am assuming people wanted desperately to be right about Ngannou leaving the UFC being a mistake, and are making a lot of silly excuses. The fight was an absolute success hence why we are talking about it - UFC fans have always over obsessives with USA PPV buy rate because the UFC isn't big enough to actually do well by any other measure. Boxing is bigger than just PPV.

I dont know the PPV numbers and it could be a saudi thing where pay is enormous, but typically Fury's opponents dont get nearly as much as ngannou. I just know that if the payout is large enough, then you gotta read between the lines at this point

 

[cade187]

Depends on your definition of a "big star", but I can think of a few guys who are bigger draws in boxing, and boxing is already a niche sport, there is a massive drop off after the first few guys.

It's either

A) Fury is a big star, so that means the only way a PPV could draw THAT little is because of the time slot

B) Fury isn't actually a big star

Either way, it doesn't make any sense to be like "SEE NGANNOU IS A SHIT DRAW LMAO!!!!" - because he wasn't even the A side (and no one thinks he is a draw, anyway). Francis is the B-Side in all of these fights, so if a PPV "fails" to draw why on earth would it be his "fault" and not Fury's? That isn't how drawing works.


It didn't even fail, business model around the fight wasn't based on selling PPV's. I am assuming people wanted desperately to be right about Ngannou leaving the UFC being a mistake, and are making a lot of silly excuses. The fight was an absolute success hence why we are talking about it - UFC fans have always over obsessives with USA PPV buy rate because the UFC isn't big enough to actually do well by any other measure. Boxing is bigger than just PPV.

I'm not sure I agree with your first point about Ngannou not being accountable for the success of the card. He is still a factor in it, even if he is the B side. If he truly wasn't, then he definitely isn't worth what they are paying him. That being sad, you're point about PPV sales is absolutely correct here and that's what most people don't grasp. It's obvious that PPV sales are not an accurate measure of the success of his bout vs. Fury, and likely won't be an accurate measure of the success of his bout vs. Joshua. It's being booked in Abu Dhabi again, so clearly the promoters/organizers viewed it as a success if they are booking him in another card in very similar circumstances almost as soon as they possibly could. I don't think North Americans really grasp the way the market there works and the amount of wealth in Abu Dhabi.

 

[wwkirk]

Does DC think fans are stupid?

Yeah, I suppose he does.
But are they dumb? I don't mean Sherdoggers, of course; we're not dumb, we're savvy af. I'm asking about the casuals. If THEY are dumb, then DC and the UFC's ploy can succeed.

 

[Tyler Durden]

The UFC and it’s figureheads (Dana, Joe Silva etc.) have a proven track record and history of being petty pieces of shit. It’s been proven in court documents through discovery and it’s been talked about for fifteen years or so.

So no, they aren’t happy that their HW champion didn’t just play ball with them and accept everything the UFC offered him. They tried to lowball a guy who had everything going for him and decided to see things through. Then Ngannou took the ball and went home



Everyone talked about how he made a huge mistake, but it was just Ngannou betting on himself and making the most of it. Exactly what the sport needed. Fuck all that locking your athletes with all restricting contracts, low-balling fighters and throwing them under the bus the moment they see fit.

The UFC looks like the bitter ex who tried to look indifferent, failed, and now tries to spin it to make it look like they didn’t fail and were never bitter

Yup. Totally "what the sport needed", a champion leaving that sport to play another sport.
How stupid of a comment is that?

 

[Tyler Durden]

I'm not sure I agree with your first point about Ngannou not being accountable for the success of the card. He is still a factor in it, even if he is the B side. If he truly wasn't, then he definitely isn't worth what they are paying him. That being sad, you're point about PPV sales is absolutely correct here and that's what most people don't grasp. It's obvious that PPV sales are not an accurate measure of the success of his bout vs. Fury, and likely won't be an accurate measure of the success of his bout vs. Joshua. It's being booked in Abu Dhabi again, so clearly the promoters/organizers viewed it as a success if they are booking him in another card in very similar circumstances almost as soon as they possibly could. I don't think North Americans really grasp the way the market there works and the amount of wealth in Abu Dhabi.

I think you and everyone else should do some research on the Saudi Govts sportswashing experiment to fully understand why they are paying someone like Francis Ngannou way more than he is worth and know they are losing money in the short-term.
The UFC wasn't interested in losing money.

 

[Lawrence]

The UFC was quietly throwing shade at Ngannou but I can definitely seeing them start praising him now. Which is what Sherdoggers have been doing as well.

I've got to admit that I didn't think Francis's plan would work at all and that not only would it hurt him, it would hurt us fans that just wanted to see him fight.

I was wrong... He was right...

And if saying my appreciation for his huge win is doing what Sherdoggers do,,, Well I can accept that.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Why do you sound so hurt? Leaving the UFC gave Ngannou the opportunity to make life changing money. Francis > UFC

Because I'm not used to trying to explain business math to retards and it's extremely frustrating.

 

[Frank Kain]

Company man…

 

[Tyler Durden]

Its not in the UFC's interest to create stars anymore. Even though creating stars helped to propel the company into the mainstream consciousness. It's a pretty funny contradiction. Someone who is worth that much pay wouldn't get it from the UFC even though their fame would bring eyes to the sport. They want control of their fighters in as many aspects as possible.

Personally I'd like to see individual sponsors brought back. Dana was a complete hypocrite saying "oh we don't want their shorts to look like NASCAR" then they puke all the UFC sponsors all over the octagon. Really so easy to see through that bullshit; they wanted the money the fighters were making. The UFC makes hundreds of millions from their sponsors. They can live with their fighter getting 50k from their own sponsor.

The whole point that for some reason you guys are ignoring is that Ngannou is not worth the money they paid him! They lost money on that card. The Saudis don't care about losing money right now. The UFC does. Look up Saudis Sportswashing.

 

[burningspear]

Francis already surpassed DCs entire career earnings with his last fight, let the old guy salt.

 

[Humongo]

That's like, all of Conor's fan boys.

are they a thing nowadays? I always thought they were trolling.

 

[Blastbeat]

The whole point that for some reason you guys are ignoring is that Ngannou is not worth the money they paid him! They lost money on that card. The Saudis don't care about losing money right now. The UFC does. Look up Saudis Sportswashing.

Oh I know, 100%. Ngannou is definitely worth money but the Saudis are ab-so-lutely engaging in sportswashing right now.

The price of a cleaned up international image for Saudi Arabia is worth a LOT of money to them. It's why I hate and love what they're doing at the same time. The Day Of Reckoning was one of the best boxing cards in recent memory but the other side of the coin is that the construction of the facilities probably claimed the lives of a few Pakis and Bengalis.

It's very conflicting, as a fan of combat sports.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Because I'm not used to trying to explain business math to retards and it's extremely frustrating.

You're not used to math in general.

 

[Goutfather]

Tyson Fury isn't one of the biggest stars in boxing. Tyson Fury is famous for being the lineal champion not money maker, and his relative lack of popularity is one of his bigger knocks. He was the B-Side when he fought Wilder, and would have been the B-Side against Joshua.

fury absolutely is one of the biggest stars in boxing, particularly at hw. sure, it’s fair to say relatively he’s not a huge draw, but that’s accounting for the fact that he’s an undefeated lineal champ. fury was a bigger fight than wilder in 2023, whose most recent fight against helenius earned only 75k buys. prior to facing francis, fury never had a ppv below 300k. aj might be a better draw, but that doesn’t mean fury is a bad draw overall.

If Fury was one of the biggest stars in boxing and fought a nobody, it would have sold a lot more. Anthony Joshua could fight me and it would still sell 500k. So you're somewhat contradicting yourself.

i didn’t say the biggest star. of course he isn’t. none of these people are “stars” in the vein of floyd, or conor, etc.

and anthony joshua would not get 500k buys for a nobody. c’mon. he got that for andy ruiz, who despite being fat, was an elite, ranked boxer with 10 years in the boxing scene. but i’d concede more people would watch aj fight you than tyson fury.

I have no idea why you're saying stop as if I said something that was incorrect. The fight was on at morning time in USA, so Americans did not buy it. Quite frankly, Francis and Fury's drawing power is irrelevant to my statement. No one draws PPV at that time slot.

“stop,” as in “stop making excuses for francis’s poor drawing power.” francis has never been particularly strong in that department. and while the time slot wasn’t ideal, it was a saturday during waking hours, they hyped the fuck out of this fight, and comped a ton of celebrities for exposure. they made an earnest effort to sell it. it couldn’t even out-sell wilder’s fight against helenius. if it had sold 150k, then we could have a talk about whether the numbers were depressed by the time slot. at 67k, it’s clear people just weren’t interested in buying that fight.

and yes, part of the blame goes on fury too.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

it's good and bad for the UFC. it's bad because he's no longer with the UFC obviously, but it's good because he made his entire career there and was the champion. they can always claim that they helped build Ngannou to what he is now. for Dana personally though, i think it eats him up when he has to answer questions about Ngannou. not that i think he's pissed with Ngannou, but more pissed that he lost out on a bunch of money, a way to strongarm his way into boxing, and the ability to make Jones vs Ngannou happen for the foreseeable future.