aftermath of Francis fight: a lesson in how corporate PR works

[kflo]

Yes, yes, you're correct. I don't look at Fight Matrix too often so I couldn't remember which it was. I just think it's funny because your threads about these topics always set people off. There is far too much recency bias in sports in general, fighting is more so for it because of how infrequently the fighters compete. I appreciate the analysis, it's why I come here.

And @Dionysian , I would be curious to hear your take on the why aspect of this. Like I said earlier, I agree that this stuff goes on but it seems to me like something that would not be a fruitful expenditure for a company, even a very wealthy one like the UFCWWE merger. It seems too small of a scale, like it would not be worth the money spent to try to influence a narrative on this small of a scale without it spreading to a more broad crowd.

Is Sherdog that influential? Maybe once upon a time, but nowadays? I'm not sure, truly. The USADA stuff is compelling, particularly participating for 60 pages in a thread. I have been involved in some serious clan flame wars back in the day playing games online, and not small forums either; 60 pages is a lot.

I guess what I'm saying is: why do it here, and why not on places like Twitter, Instagram and Facebook? Not to say they couldn't do both, but why waste the money on here? What kind of returns do you think you're getting? Are there narratives formed here that have travelled elsewhere?

I've had an account for a long time now I guess. I would have been a lurker in '09 before making an account later on. I've never really been active enough to know too many names too closely, though people who have had the same name/profile pics for a long time I'm more familiar with. There was probably a few years where I was more engaged.

Side note: Used to post on the forums of a site called MMA TKO (was a site where they'd post the fights after they happened). This place was too busy back then, so I went there.

Just know you're asking a lunatic his opinion on how things work in the real world….

 

[kflo]

aw, hun, the quality of your posts are an entirely different matter from whether or not they're organic.

You’re just an online asshole in addition to team CT?

 

[kflo]

UFC canned @kflo last year, that's why he doesn't post anymore

Shitposters unite. Welcome herb.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Just know you're asking a lunatic his opinion on how things work in the real world….

That's OK. Maybe he's bonkers. He's not wrong about the way PR influence campaigns work, though. I can't prove one way or another about yourself or Mark, not that it matters to me either way. I just think it's an interesting thought experiment.

Even if you did work for the UFC, I wouldn't hold it against you. I'm capable of free thought. Sometimes the "UFC Narrative" is correct, sometimes it's wrong.

 

[kflo]

That's OK. Maybe he's bonkers. He's not wrong about the way PR influence campaigns work, though. I can't prove one way or another about yourself or Mark, not that it matters to me either way. I just think it's an interesting thought experiment.

Even if you did work for the UFC, I wouldn't hold it against you. I'm capable of free thought. Sometimes the "UFC Narrative" is correct, sometimes it's wrong.

every narrative gets represented here. And especially if the ufc put that narrative out there through their official channels. It’s guaranteed to be repeated here by people who believe it. And those that will automatically take the opposite side. TS is programmed to take the opposite side. And immediately go into his CT mode that the forces are at work.

 

[mudrubble]

They might not care about the quality of their product, but they absolutely care if people are giving them money for their product. And they absolutely do spend money to market the UFC brand and Dana White, they just spend less money marketing their fighters.

And your reasoning doesn't make sense. What's being suggested here is just standard business practises for any big company and corporations like Pepsi wish they had access to a niche base of hardcore fans for their product. The amount of dollars it would take to astroturf on the biggest MMA discussion board would be less than a rounding error for the UFC.

And it would be fiscally irresponsible of them to not have their ears to the ground, after 30 yrs of being in business. Put it this way, if they WERE as stupid as half these posters are suggesting, half these posters could walk up in there and school them on marketing.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

every narrative gets represented here. And especially if the ufc put that narrative out there through their official channels. It’s guaranteed to be repeated here by people who believe it. And those that will automatically take the opposite side. TS is programmed to take the opposite side. And immediately go into his CT mode that the forces are at work.

See, I don't disagree with this. I think the UFC can use bigger, broader means of influencing a narrative they might want to push and achieve the same results without paying someone to post here. I could see here being somewhere to influence in the past, but nowadays it seems less relevant.

Which is why I asked for his thoughts, just to hear his POV on that.

And it would be fiscally irresponsible of them to not have their ears to the ground, after 30 yrs of being in business. Put it this way, if they WERE as stupid as half these posters are suggesting, half these posters could walk up in there and school them on marketing.

I think this is also correct. I would think it's near certain that there are people in the company's communications department that is monitoring social media, Reddit, smaller places like here. Some degree of monitoring is much easier than trying to shift a narrative.

 

[don't ask]

I think this is also correct. I would think it's near certain that there are people in the company's communications department that is monitoring social media, Reddit, smaller places like here. Some degree of monitoring is much easier than trying to shift a narrative.

Shifting a narrative on discussion boards and social media has proven to be the one of the most effective and powerful ways of influencing people in the last 20 years. It's absolutely ludicrous to think they'd shrug their shoulders at it when there are companies out there who wish they had access to a niche of hardcore fans and the UFC has historically depended on fans and the internet to survive their dark times.

 

[don't ask]

You’re just an online asshole in addition to team CT?

Just because I don't think you post very intelligently doesn't mean I think you're a paid shill. Not in this economy, where they could afford some people of normal intellect.

 

[mudrubble]

See, I don't disagree with this. I think the UFC can use bigger, broader means of influencing a narrative they might want to push and achieve the same results without paying someone to post here. I could see here being somewhere to influence in the past, but nowadays it seems less relevant.

Which is why I asked for his thoughts, just to hear his POV on that.


I think this is also correct. I would think it's near certain that there are people in the company's communications department that is monitoring social media, Reddit, smaller places like here. Some degree of monitoring is much easier than trying to shift a narrative.

Agreed but the idea that they only monitor hardcore fans bashing their company on myriad subjects including things as possibly troubling as fighter pay, and just report back and nobody says "hey, spend an hour a day, you four, and get into those conversations on these forums" just seems far fetched.

If any of us ran a company that was getting bashed as badly as the UFC sometimes does here, we'd want to say our two cents in defense (or deflection, or distraction, or even offense).

Add to that how PETTY the UFC has been about disparate voices and there is absolutely zero question in my mind that THIS SPECIFIC COMPANY is absolutely paying ppl to post on these forums.

That said, one of the glorious things about life is that we each have our own minds and I appreciate your having your own.

 

[kflo]

Just because I don't think you post very intelligently doesn't mean I think you're a paid shill. Not in this economy, where they could afford some people of normal intellect.

Again you’re just the kind of guy who chooses his online persona to be an asshole. Congrats. I don’t remember having 2 discussions with you.

 

[don't ask]

Again you’re just the kind of guy who chooses his online persona to be an asshole. Congrats. I don’t remember having 2 discussions with you.

You don't remember them because I wasn't agonizingly stupid. I definitely remember talking to you before.

 

[kflo]

You don't remember them because I wasn't agonizingly stupid. I definitely remember talking to you before.

Yeah. You’re just an anonymous asshole. Feel proud.

 

[don't ask]

Yeah. You’re just an anonymous asshole. Feel proud.

I don't know if I feel proud that I don't write like an idiot, but I definitely feel better than if I did write like an idiot.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Shifting a narrative on discussion boards and social media has proven to be the one of the most effective and powerful ways of influencing people in the last 20 years. It's absolutely ludicrous to think they'd shrug their shoulders at it when there are companies out there who wish they had access to a niche of hardcore fans and the UFC has historically depended on fans and the internet to survive their dark times.

No argument from me about it being a powerful tool. It'll get more powerful as AI tech advances too and bots become even better + tougher to detect.

But they don't depend on people like us that much anymore, and they don't need to rely on the Internet to survive any dark times when they're as big as they are now. Like I said, I feel they would be more inclined to monitor what is said to keep in the loop so to speak, less so that they'd be trying to shift narratives around here.

I'm certainly open to being wrong, and perhaps I'm just being too naive. Dionysian has presented a pretty compelling case, as far as this sort of thing could be proven.

GSP was brought up as an example at some point in here. I don't think a lot of the disparaging of him after he left was astroturfing. He always had his critics, and when he was gone they had a field day. Dancing on his grave, so to speak. And of course, Dana cast him aside as promoters tend to do (I don't begrudge Dana for being a promoter, I just always remind myself of the "Don't Believe His Lies" meme, particularly the one where he's dressed as a clown because it's extra funny). People will spout Dana's or the UFC's talking points without needing a push, simply because they're fans of Dana, the UFC or both.

This thread reminds me of reading a story many years ago about someone whose job it was to essentially snitch on bars that were illegally broadcasting UFC events. I don't think it would have been this Reddit AMA post, if I remember right it was an actual story somewhere. Might have been this one from Bloody Elbow now that I see it.

Would be interesting to hear someone spill the beans on this type of forum/social media shilling gig.

 

[don't ask]

But they don't depend on people like us that much anymore,

You don't know this. You're assuming this.

Like I said, I feel they would be more inclined to monitor what is said to keep in the loop so to speak, less so that they'd be trying to shift narratives around here.

And I explained why that's ludicrous in a world where the golden goose that everyone is chasing is the ability to influence online.

Would be interesting to hear someone spill the beans on this type of forum/social media shilling gig.

There was a UFC memo that leaked 10-15 years ago about their employees posting online. It stopped short of saying, "It is your paid duty to disseminate these narratives,", but it was about hte best we could hope for since it's probably rare for a memo like that to exist.

 

[kflo]

I don't know if I feel proud that I don't write like an idiot, but I definitely feel better than if I did write like an idiot.

You write like an asshole. Congrats.

You disagree with someone and this is the role you happily play. You’d be embarrassed to even type out what you think was so offensive to you.

 

[MigitAs]

Shitposters unite. Welcome herb.

Bro you are triple posting days later still doing damage control, shill harder

 

[MigitAs]

You don't remember them because I wasn't agonizingly stupid. I definitely remember talking to you before.

Don’t give Shillbro the time of day, he has been exposed and can’t deal with it

 

[don't ask]

You write like an asshole. Congrats.

You disagree with someone and this is the role you happily play. You’d be embarrassed to even type out what you think was so offensive to you.

Your psychoanalysis is about as desperate and awful as your general posting presence. Anyways, I'm tapping out of this delightfully terrible exchange and turning in for the night. Toodles.