Tom actually quit. Jones was right.

[Ares Black]

What a deeply stupid thread

 

[icemun]

Here's the problem with your point. And take this from someone who for a long time defended Jon Jones and Dana White on this situation that Jon Jones didn't duck Francis. And the reason the fight didn't happen was on Francis as he left the UFC. So I don't have favortism one way or the other here.

While you are correct that Francis Ngannou did receive a UFC contract offer and in there was pay outlined for "a" Jon Jones fight. And they did perhaps offer Francis the Jones fight for UFC 289, March 5th 2023. The UFC and Dana White very well knew that Francis was not going to fight on UFC 289, and this is where the situation gets more complicated. You hear Dana White say in the press conference on Jan 15th, 2023 when he announced Francis was leaving the UFC and Jones vs Gane is on for UFC 289......."Francis is over 300lbs, he just had knee surgery so we don't think he's even gonna be ready for March"

So the UFC made a contract offer to Francis the week prior, Francis said this on the Ariel Helwani podcast, on Jan 10th, 2023. But they made the offer for a fight 7 weeks out when Francis was clearly not gonna be ready in time. Jon Jones was already booked for UFC 289 in November to make his HW debut.

So when Francis said the contact was a trick just to get him to sign. That was correct in a sense. They promised him the Jones fight, but from the perspective of Francis, what if Jones lost to Gane, what if Jones gets injured, what is Jones stalls negotiations. That fight doesn't happen. There were too many uncertainties for Francis in that future Jones fight. I am sure the UFC wanted to make the fight and would in the future, but it doesn't mean it's a gaurantee.

Like I said, the UFC made an offer, but they did so in a situation knowing that Francis would not be ready for UFC 289. They did make the offer more for a future consideration and to lock him into a contract with the "possibility" of fighting Jones.

Thats totaly contrary to what Francis said.



He says here he was ready, in shape, 270lbs and training

Further he said he wanted more than money to fight Jones. He wanted to be a free agent, health care among other things




But all of this is irrelevant to the initial and pertinent point.

Francis declined fighting Jones and essentially quit the UFC

Whether his reasons sound, just or in his best interest or not, he DECLINED to fight Jones.

Neither Jones, nor the UFC could force Francis to fight Jones, as Francis chose not to.

 

[snugglecakes]

You typed a ton of irrelevant gibberish and emotional conjecture.

Francis QUIT the UFC instead of fighting Jones, that is just the facts. Whatever Francis reasons he QUIT, said NO to fighting Jones.

Francis Ngannou Turned Down Around $8 Million To Fight Jon Jones​

Jones has NEVER lost.

Beating an unknown like Tom does less than beating Gane (which be did In seconds)

it's just funny how you completely ignore Jon turning down 30 million for the Tom fight. You don't even address the issue because you know it completely tears down the entire bases of your position from the ground up. Jon also ducked the shit out of the Reyes rematch people were calling for after that robbery.

No shame in quitting the UFC if its to pursue much more difficult fights elsewhere and for more money as a bonus.

Fighting a guy coming off a loss in Gane does not do more than fighting somebody on a KO streak. The casuals sure as fuck have absolutely no idea who the hell Gane is. They're more likely to know who Andy Wang is than gane.

Not hard to stay undefeated when the majority of your career was reach bullying bloated middleweights you have a 9001 light year reach and overall size advantage over. If i went and reach bullied a bunch of midgets i would not brag about it (also not hard to stay undefeated when the UFC rigged it with corrupt judges and refs. Reyes beat Jon and nobody being honest with themselves thinks otherwise. Even those judges that gave it to Jon think Dom won... but those fight rigging marching orders were in.

... with a side order of roid cheating

 

[icemun]

it's just funny how you completely ignore Jon turning down 30 million for the Tom fight. You don't even address the issue because you know it completely tears down the entire bases of your position from the ground up. Jon also ducked the shit out of the Reyes rematch people were calling for after that robbery.

No shame in quitting the UFC if its to pursue much more difficult fights elsewhere and for more money as a bonus.

Fighting a guy coming off a loss in Gane does not do more than fighting somebody on a KO streak. The casuals sure as fuck have absolutely no idea who the hell Gane is. They're more likely to know who Andy Wang is than gane.

Not hard to stay undefeated when the majority of your career was reach bullying bloated middleweights you have a 9001 light year reach and overall size advantage over. If i went and reach bullied a bunch of midgets i would not brag about it (also not hard to stay undefeated when the UFC rigged it with corrupt judges and refs. Reyes beat Jon and nobody being honest with themselves thinks otherwise. Even those judges that gave it to Jon think Dom won... but those fight rigging marching orders were in.

... with a side order of roid cheating

Youre typing more nonsense.

I didnt ignore that Jones turned down the Tom fight

its know after beating Gane he wants legacy fights with super stars.

Tom is a nobody.

Beating him not only gains him nothing, Jones cant keep beating nobody up and comers for ever. No one can.

Jones has never lost.

It is, what it is and your personal feelings and emotions on the matter dont alter said facts.

 

[KoalaBear]

i don't totally fault aspinall for not handling this situation better. he has had a weirder 2 years than any heavyweight ever. it started with jon beating cyril gane on march 4 2023. then he gets hurt and tom beats sergei in november of 2023. and then? nothing. just angst and waiting on jon and the stipe fiasco. then he finally gets his big chance to show the world what he can do. he gets outstruck for 4 minutes then a horrific eye poke.

hes probably sitting there like really this is how its gonna go? after all this im going to be altered by an eye poke in a fight im already losing and probably get knocked out pretty quickly? i feel for the guy. it was such a strange series of events. he was literally the interim champ and they booked another guy. all to cater to jon. and now every one is just making fun of him lol.

who knows what will transpire but he lost 2 years of his prime just for this to happen. that shit sucks

 

[BowserJr]

I will let you poke my eyelids, but I will tell you that I have done that already and although it is uncomfortable, i did NOT lose sight..+

Make a video of you closing your eyes and shoving a finger to the first knuckle in 1 eye and then 2 knuckles deep in the other eye

 

[snugglecakes]

Youre typing more nonsense.

I didnt ignore that Jones turned down the Tom fight

its know after beating Gane he wants legacy fights with super stars.

Tom is a nobody.

Beating him not only gains him nothing, Jones cant keep beating nobody up and comers for ever. No one can.

Jones has never lost.

It is, what it is and your personal feelings and emotions on the matter dont alter said facts.

its funny how you keep saying the word facts and then say opinions such as beating tom gains him nothing but beating Stipe does. That is a 100% opinion & a bizarre one at that. I fail to see how elder abuse is better for your legacy than beating the guy perceived as the biggest danger in the division. Name value is a total non issue here. Casuals don't know who Tom, Gane, or Jon are.

99% of the shit you said in this back and forth have been opinions, such as calling my talking points nonsense. What makes you some kind of authority to declare whats nonsense and what's fact? I declare everything you say as nonsense and you don't carry anymore weight than i do in saying whats fact, what's opinion, what is sensical, & what's nonsensical (actually i do carry more weight because you declare opinions as facts and your opinions are well...dumb)

There was a first or second grade exercise i had where we had to identify the difference between fact and opinion. It was a simple 2 choice test with things such as "red is the best color" and "world war 2 ended in 1945." You had to checkbox either fact or opinion for each statement. You would have literally failed this exercise based upon what I'm seeing from you.

The 1 and only thing you said that's a fact is that frank left the UFC. Everything else was an opinion, yet you used the word facts as if it was plural. Saying leaving the UFC was being a quitter is an opinion. Saying 9001 year old Stipe is better for your legacy than Tom is an opinion. Saying beating tom gains nothing is an opinion. Saying Stipe is a "superstar" is an opinion.

You did ignore Jon ducking Tom turning down 30 mil. Your last post was the first time you addressed it and only cause i called you out on it forcing you to address it. Even then you just said "i didn't ignore it" (lie). Even still all you did was say you didn't. You still haven't given any kind of actual take on that because you just can't without poking huge holes into your own nonsensical logic. You haven't provided a shred of insight as to your reasoning for any of this. You just say this this n that is nonsense and don't give a shred of reasoning, while i broke down everything you said in detail and gave actual reasoning as to why you're well... wrong. (an opinion but at least i admit that)

The only facts are this. Frank turned down 8 million to take a different fight for 10 million instead, while Jon turned down 30 million to go ride nut to butt on the back of a moped instead.

This whle situation looks far worse for jon than it does for frank, tom, or anybody.(that 1 is an opinion too, the popular one)

 

[Captain Herb]

Jon said Tom quit in a fight? That's interesting to know because I'm pretty sure Jon quit before their fight even started.

 

[icemun]

its funny how you keep saying the word facts and then say opinions such as beating tom gains him nothing but beating Stipe does. That is a 100% opinion & a bizarre one at that. I fail to see how elder abuse is better for your legacy than beating the guy perceived as the biggest danger in the division. Name value is a total non issue here. Casuals don't know who Tom, Gane, or Jon are.

99% of the shit you said in this back and forth have been opinions, such as calling my talking points nonsense. What makes you some kind of authority to declare whats nonsense and what's fact? I declare everything you say as nonsense and you don't carry anymore weight than i do in saying whats fact, what's opinion, what is sensical, & what's nonsensical (actually i do carry more weight because you declare opinions as facts and your opinions are well...dumb)

There was a first or second grade exercise i had where we had to identify the difference between fact and opinion. It was a simple 2 choice test with things such as "red is the best color" and "world war 2 ended in 1945." You had to checkbox either fact or opinion for each statement. You would have literally failed this exercise based upon what I'm seeing from you.

The 1 and only thing you said that's a fact is that frank left the UFC. Everything else was an opinion, yet you used the word facts as if it was plural. Saying leaving the UFC was being a quitter is an opinion. Saying 9001 year old Stipe is better for your legacy than Tom is an opinion. Saying beating tom gains nothing is an opinion. Saying Stipe is a "superstar" is an opinion.

You did ignore Jon ducking Tom turning down 30 mil. Your last post was the first time you addressed it and only cause i called you out on it forcing you to address it. Even then you just said "i didn't ignore it" (lie). Even still all you did was say you didn't. You still haven't given any kind of actual take on that because you just can't without poking huge holes into your own nonsensical logic. You haven't provided a shred of insight as to your reasoning for any of this. You just say this this n that is nonsense and don't give a shred of reasoning, while i broke down everything you said in detail and gave actual reasoning as to why you're well... wrong. (an opinion but at least i admit that)

The only facts are this. Frank turned down 8 million to take a different fight for 10 million instead, while Jon turned down 30 million to go ride nut to butt on the back of a moped instead.

This whle situation looks far worse for jon than it dos for frank, tom, or anybody.(that 1 is an opinion too, the popular one)

Jon and Francis are stars.
Jon the GOAT.
Tom is a nobody.

You typed a ton of gibberish and feelings about Jones.

Did you have a cogent point?

 

[snugglecakes]

Jon and Francis are stars.
Jon the GOAT.
Tom is a nobody.

You typed a ton of gibberish and feelings about Jones.

Did you have a cogent point?

we get it.. you have this this and that opinion. You don't need to repeat yourself.

Jones, frank, and stipe have never come close to touching the top PPV buyrates. None of them have even touched a million buys.They are not "stars.'' They are just fighters. Their fame will never transcend beyond fighting like Conor, ronda, even Gina. Their fame is on par with something such as a top online streamer or celebrity chef not named Gordan Ramey. Nobody outside of their niche scenes have a clue who they are. Stipe streamed for a few years back when he was the champ in his prime and would get maybe 50ish live viewers on average (what a star right!). MMA fighters are just not household name amounts of fame, thus saying you fought Stipe instead of the rightful contender because of name value and legacy is just cope. It was nothing other than cherry picking the easier fight.

I have points. You have nothing except goin "nuh uh! That's gibberish! That's nonsense!" to anything that goes against your narrative.

p.s. Jon is a proven PED user/cheater. Goat eligibility has been null and voided.

 

[icemun]

we get it.. you have this this and that opinion. You don't need to repeat yourself.

Jones, frank, and stipe have never come close to touching the top PPV buyrates. None of them have even touched a million buys.They are not "stars.'' They are just fighters. Their fame will never transcend beyond fighting like Conor, ronda, even Gina. Their fame is on par with something such as a top online streamer or celebrity chef not named Gordan Ramey. Nobody outside of their niche scenes have a clue who they are. Stipe streamed for a few years back when he was the champ in his prime and would get maybe 50ish live viewers on average (what a star right!). MMA fighters are just not household name amounts of fame, thus saying you fought Stipe instead of the rightful contender because of name value and legacy is just cope. It was nothing other than cherry picking the easier fight.

I have points. You have nothing except goin "nuh uh! That's gibberish! That's nonsense!" to anything that goes against your narrative.

p.s. Jon is a proven PED user/cheater. Goat eligibility has been null and voided.

I have no idea what you are rambling about at this point and whatever it is, its irrelevant

 

[snugglecakes]

I have no idea what you are rambling about at this point and whatever it is, its irrelevant

View attachment 1122034

thats a lie. You know exactly what i'm talking about but you just refuse to actually elaborate on any of the talking points because not so deep down you know it rips your arguments to shreds so you just avoid it

 

[JKS]

Thats totaly contrary to what Francis said.



He says here he was ready, in shape, 270lbs and training

Further he said he wanted more than money to fight Jones. He wanted to be a free agent, health care among other things




But all of this is irrelevant to the initial and pertinent point.

Francis declined fighting Jones and essentially quit the UFC

Whether his reasons sound, just or in his best interest or not, he DECLINED to fight Jones.

Neither Jones, nor the UFC could force Francis to fight Jones, as Francis chose not to.

Interesting!! Very very interesting.

Can you let me know where in the interview he said that?? I can't find it.

 

[icemun]

thats a lie. You know exactly what i'm talking about but you just refuse to actually elaborate on any of the talking points because not so deep down you know it rips your arguments to shreds so you just avoid it

View attachment 1122037

I really dont what point if any you are trying to communicate.

Do you have a cogent point , other than your emotional feelings towards Jones?

 

[icemun]

Interesting!! Very very interesting.

Can you let me know where in the interview he said that?? I can't find it.

what specifically?
That he was 270 and training? I recall it was closer to the beginning

When I get to a computer Ill try and remember to time stamp it

 

[snugglecakes]

I really dont what point if any you are trying to communicate.

Do you have a cogent point , other than your emotional feelings towards Jones?

did Jon's daughter have emotional feelings when she was in tears begging for the police to come take her dad away for using her mom's face as a speed bag?

we get it. You will look the other way when somebody roid cheats, finger poke cheats, women beats, plays carmageddon with pregnant women while drunk and high, becomes the only 1 in history to duck so hard a petition to strip him was created, holds the world record for the most times stripped of a belt for roid cheating, cherry picks elder abuse match ups against 9001 year olds, threatens to kill police officers, cherry picks opponents that have fought as low as middleweight, & much more.

Thats fine you do you. Who you choose as your idol is your prerogative.

P.S. and you are lying when you say you don't know what my points are. This is your just way of avoiding ever having to elaborate on any of the details because then your house of cards will come crashing down.

 

[mkess101]

Jon and Francis are stars.
Jon the GOAT.
Tom is a nobody.

You typed a ton of gibberish and feelings about Jones.

Did you have a cogent point?

Francis is a star? PFL built a card around him that sold 10k buys lmao. Nobody expected it to do UFC #'s but dude...I could start "Bill's fight league" and if I had an ACTUAL star it would sell a helluva lot more than 10k buys.

 

[JKS]

what specifically?
That he was 270 and training? I recall it was closer to the beginning

When I get to a computer Ill try and remember to time stamp it

Thank you, if that is the case then it completely changes the entire perspective on this again.

 

[icemun]

Francis is a star? PFL built a card around him that sold 10k buys lmao. Nobody expected it to do UFC #'s but dude...I could start "Bill's fight league" and if I had an ACTUAL star it would sell a helluva lot more than 10k buys.

You have a point and
I should have been more clear

Francis WAS a star

He was able to leverage his stardom to quit the ufc (instead of fighting Jones), to fight two of the biggest stars of boxing for tens of millions, without ANY pro boxing fights.

Obviously after those loses, the latter being devastating, his value plumetted

Avoiding Jones was undoubtedly his best career move.

But back to the point, Francis was unquestionably a star in the UFC, unlike Tom at this point, whose entire career is on a precipice .

 

[mkess101]

You have a point and
I should have been more clear

Francis WAS a star

He was able to leverage his stardom to quit the ufc (instead of fighting Jones), to fight two of the biggest stars of boxing for tens of millions, without ANY pro boxing fights.

Obviously after those loses, the latter being devastating, his value plumetted

Avoiding Jones was undoubtedly his best career move.

But back to the point, Francis was unquestionably a star in the UFC, unlike Tom at this point, whose entire career is on a precipice .

Depends on your definition of "star", but the groundswell for Jones/Aspinall was absolutely on par with Jones/Francis.ajor media outlets were all calling it THE fight to make (in the entire org, not just HW).

I'd agree Francis had more name recognition up until Jones/Aspinall took on a life of its own. We'll now have to see what happens with Aspinall, if he loses a rematch to Gane then yeah the shine is clearly gone. If he wins spectacularly...different story for sure.