Elections Go Joe Biden!

[Deleted member 159002]

Trump won because of his midwestern strategy. Sanders' populist protectionism may not be good policy, but it's good politics in a Presidential election.

 

[IGIT]

You're not doing a good job showing us why Biden should be supported.

hello Trident,

i don't think i'd have the ability to frame things in a way that would cause you to support Mr. Biden, to be frank.

you asked me a question regarding Mr. Biden's legislative accomplishments, requesting me to name one, single thing he's done. i answered your question.

you're not interested in having an honest exchange with me (and that's alright), apparently.

- IGIT

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Your problem with Sanders is not his age. By all signs he's quite healthy. Living until 86 is not some great feat for a healthy 77-year-old. I'm living with a 91-year-old and an 87-year-old who get up and go to work every day. Pick a strong VP just in case.

Sanders is the type of candidate who can bring many disaffected apolitical people into the general election. He's one of the strongest candidates for your team to take on Trump for that reason. As an example, he beat Clinton in Michigan despite the polling average showing him down by 21.4(!)%. That's a polling error of epic scale. Polls in the rustbelt have underestimated him.

You and I are political junkies. Most people aren't really paying attention at all. Most candidates (HRC, Biden) cannot get them interested. Your team wins elections when big political movements form around a candidate (think: Obama) and those disengaged people get involved.

How did FDR achieve 62.5% turnout in 1940? He did it by leading a progressive movement. Sanders is very similar to FDR in many ways. Smart Republicans fear him.

Agreed. One thing you can't say about Sanders is that he's a phoney balogna. He's passionate, and unlike most politicians his positions didn't "evolve" as public opinion changed. He's been arguing for the same damn things for decades.

 

[trident]

hello Trident,

i don't think i'd have the ability to frame things in a way that would cause you to support Mr. Biden, to be frank.

you asked me a question regarding Mr. Biden's legislative accomplishments, requesting me to name one, single thing he's done. i answered your question.

you're not interested in having an honest exchange with me (and that's alright), apparently.

- IGIT

I did not ask you about his legislative accomplishments, of which what you mentioned fails to meet that criteria, I asked you to show me something outstanding his has done in his very long career in "public service"

You failed to do this.

This is your thread. A thread stating Biden is the best shot.

Yet you can not say why. You can not point to anything meaningful he has done. And instead of doing this, you back peddle and act ad if there is nothing you could say.

Well, you are right. There is nothing you can say because there is nothing there.

Prove me wrong.

Show me what this man has done. Show me a track record of a leader. Show me something outstanding.

Or just admit you cant. In plain language. Not that syrupy cop out you previously offered.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

That's your problem right there. Trump fears Warren and Sanders.

Based on my experience, single-payer with no out of pocket expenses sounds a lot more appealing to voters who don't have much of an idelogy and vote mainly based on self-interest than the healthcare status quo. Having a portion of each paycheck go towards insurance premiums only to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars in copays, deductible, coinsurance, while people who make less than them get Medicaid makes a lot of people feel like politicians only care about the rich and the poor.

 

[AndroidRage]

hi there Mr. AndroidRage,

the status quo is currently "Trumpism".

that is the norm, and has been so for almost 3 years.

- IGIT

No IGIT. The status quo has been around long before Trump was a thing . It is politicians serving the rich and powerful over the people. And it's been taking place on both sides for years. Its why popular programs and legislature isn't passed while things the majority don't want are passed.

 

[IGIT]

I asked you to show me something outstanding his has done in his very long career in "public service"

hiya there trident,

and i did so.

- IGIT

 

[trident]

hiya there trident,

and i did so.

- IGIT

No you didnt

What was Bidens role in that?

I found nothing when I attempted to verify your claim

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Good early evening to you IGIT,

maybe i didn't phrase my concern correctly.

what i was saying is, since i do not believe that Mrs. Warren or Mr. Sanders can actually pass their progressive agenda, i don't see the sense in factoring in their agendas as part of my rationale in deciding whom to vote for.

as a matter of fact, i worry that their policies (which i fully support) will scare away some of the support that they'll need to triumph in a general election against President Trump.

If that is the case, then so be it. If people are not interested in stemming climate change, repairing our infrastructure, educating out citizens without bankrupting them, forgiving unconscionable healthcare debt, and providing healthcare for every man, woman, and child while reversing decades of corporate socialism for the 1% then seriously fuck 'em and us (we get what we deserve (as a country)).

i do not believe in Americans who have answered polls in support of Warren or Sanders in race vs Trump. i don't trust'm to be there when push comes to shove (particularly when the GOP machine begins pushing against either of them, specifically).

If the DNC and the MSM can't push Sanders or Warren over Trump then we deserve Trump. Might as well give him a 3rd term at that point to hasten the decline.

and Joe Biden does not have a history of being wrong about everything.

My bad, Joe has a history of being wrong about anything that matters. I'm sure he was right about what day it was a few times (but obviously not recently).

the things that i'm seriously unhappy with (he's going to increase defense spending, and i'm very tired of this shit - and he, like Hillary, gave GWB a green light to invade Iraq in 2002) aren't going to matter to the electorate in 2020.

Then shame on the electorate.

i saw the election in 2016 largely as a rejection of Mrs. Clinton (though nationally she did win more votes that Mr. Trump).

i feel that baggage that Mrs. Clinton bought (or that she was saddled with via the endless Benghazi hearings), along with the machinations of the DNC, really turned off the voters that she needed to beat Mr. Trump. i don't see Mr. Biden having the same handicap.

You're probably right about this. Hillary was rightfully despised, Benghazi hearing or no Benghazi hearing, but Biden, who was in lockstep with her (for the most part), gets a pass because he has the charisma to play off supporting an unjustifiable $6,000,000,000,000 war that killed 1,000,000+ people and displaced millions more.

The rust belt didn't vote for Trump because of Benghazi.
And the same reason they would vote against Hillary is the same reason they would vote against Biden.

Anung, that hurts my feelings. i am not a troll - i just want to win.

-IGIT

Just some tough love IGGY, and while I know you aren't a troll you can see the reasons I would be concerned, those are republican talking points you're giving for not supporting Sanders. And I get it, its a scary time and we tend to second guess ourselves during scary times, but Biden is unfit for the office and we only have 1 more shot at getting Bernie elected. So cowboy the fuck up and get back on the bus.

Sincerely,
AUR

 

[Amerikuracana]

Was this thread sarcasm?

Is it sad that it literally only works as sarcasm?

Think about it. There's no way this thread works. Biden is that bad.

 

[IGIT]

herro AndroidRage,

No IGIT. The status quo has been around long before Trump was a thing. It is politicians serving the rich and powerful over the people.

status quo does not, per se, mean "politicians are serving the rich first, and the rest of the country second". it just refers to the existing state of affairs regarding whatever policy aspect we're tossing around, aye?

whatever else one might say, Donald Trump's take on Republicanism is the new status quo on the right, and the right controls half of congress, the white house and the SCOTUS. that's all i was referring to.

but sure, politicians seem to favor the powerful first. i don't disagree with that at all.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

No you didnt

What was Bidens role in that?

I found nothing when I attempted to verify your claim

hiya Trident,

he co-sponsored the bill.

- IGIT

 

[trident]

hiya Trident,

he co-sponsored the bill.

- IGIT

And that's outstanding?

That's your example of outstanding? A cosponsor?

You proved my point. /thread.

Biden is a hopeless joke.

You're best example LOL is a co sponsor from 1993???

Legit lol.

Thanks for the laugh bud

 

[IGIT]

Think about it. There's no way this thread works. Biden is that bad.

hi ho Amerikuracana,

if he is, then i hope his badness gets exposed this spring and i guess we'll all be discussing the options that the Democrats have. if someone arises, i'm cool with it.

i'm not advocating for Mr. Biden because i believe he's going to cause a revolution - i just want to win.

there may be another member of the radical center that emerges to take on the dynamic firebrands, Mrs. Warren and Mr. Sanders. we'll see.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

heya trident,

And that's outstanding?

sure.

Thanks for the laugh bud

always glad to help.

- IGIT

 

[trident]

heya trident,



sure.



always glad to help.

- IGIT

And this is about as good as you can do supporting Biden, people, just to be clear, there is nothing behind that aged flaccid facade.

And your weird polite little gimmick is nauseating.

Go hug a stuffed animal.

 

[IGIT]

hey ho Anung Un Rama,

Good early evening to you IGIT,

If that is the case, then so be it. If people are not interested in stemming climate change, repairing our infrastructure, educating out citizens without bankrupting them, forgiving unconscionable healthcare debt, and providing healthcare for every man, woman, and child while reversing decades of corporate socialism for the 1% then seriously fuck 'em and us (we get what we deserve (as a country)).

i get that, and i understand where you're coming from - and i used to feel the same way as you.

If the DNC and the MSM can't push Sanders or Warren over Trump then we deserve Trump. Might as well give him a 3rd term at that point to hasten the decline.

i get that you feel that way...and if life were a movie, i'd be in the audience cheering for someone with your uncompromising tenacity - not someone like myself.

My bad, Joe has a history of being wrong about anything that matters. I'm sure he was right about what day it was a few times (but obviously not recently).

he has, on more times that i can count, supported policy (by that i mean he sided with GOP orthodoxy) that i find pretty depressing - but i'm hoping that its enough to peel off a few voters in the four key states that Mrs. Clinton lost.

he's a bit of a globalist, too. but so am i. you and i have gone 'round and 'round on this issue. i feel most of the vexing repercussions of globalism can be addressed via tax policy - but i don't think you agreed with me (this discussion was a few years ago).

Then shame on the electorate.

there's the electorate that we have, and there's the electorate we wish we had. in the here and now, i figure we gotta deal with what we've got.

You're probably right about this. Hillary was rightfully despised, Benghazi hearing or no Benghazi hearing, but Biden, who was in lockstep with her (for the most part), gets a pass because he has the charisma to play off supporting an unjustifiable $6,000,000,000,000 war that killed 1,000,000+ people and displaced millions more.

i didn't despise the woman, i just preferred Mr. Sanders. i was pretty worried what kind of foreign policy she'd pursue.

The rust belt didn't vote for Trump because of Benghazi.
And the same reason they would vote against Hillary is the same reason they would vote against Biden.

the rust belt got "Brexited" into voting for Mr. Trump, who promised them all things wonderful - though i think Benghazi hurt her there too. not on a micro level, because generally speaking i think those with CDS were too moronic to understand what occurred in Libya

it just added to the "i can't stand the woman" mentality that permeated parts of the country.

Just some tough love IGGY, and while I know you aren't a troll you can see the reasons I would be concerned,

i was just kiddin', Anung. you and i are simpatico, whether we agree or disagree.

*fistbump*

those are republican talking points you're giving for not supporting Sanders. And I get it, its a scary time and we tend to second guess ourselves during scary times, but Biden is unfit for the office and we only have 1 more shot at getting Bernie elected. So cowboy the fuck up and get back on the bus.

the reality that most Americans are going to have a hard time voting for a socialist isn't a GOP talking point, though. its just reality.

this election, to me, is about RBG's seat on the SCOTUS - and not about much else, because i'm verrrrry skeptical that Mr. Sanders or Mrs. Warren can get 1/10th of the things they are proposing passed. given their ambitious agendas, 1/10 might be too generous, in fact.

if they win the nomination, i'm the furthest thing from an "anyone but Bernie" or an "anyone but Warren" kinda guy. i'd vote for either of them over Mr. Trump, of course, and do so happily.

i just think Joe Biden is a safer bet in the general.

i'm the guy who walks into a casino, nervously plays the cheapest slots - wins five dollars, and leaves a happy man.

- IGIT

PS - thanks for a reasoned conversation. these "Joe Biden is a pedophile" responses were getting a little tedious for me.

PPS - you and i have spoken quite a bit, and i feel i have a decent take on how you see things. you gotta admit you were massively letdown that Mr. Sanders didn't absolutely dismember Mrs. Clinton in the 2016 debates. i know you were like, "WTF WAS THAT, BERNIE?!?!?!". maybe he wouldn't fare as well you think he would vs Mr. Trump?

 

[IGIT]

And this is about as good as you can do supporting Biden, people, just to be clear, there is nothing behind that aged flaccid facade.

And your weird polite little gimmick is nauseating.

Go hug a stuffed animal.

hi Trident,

its not as good as i can get - and my rationale for supporting Mr. Biden doesn't have a great deal to do with his track record as a legislator. i was just answering your question.

its been great talking to you, though!

*hugs*

- IGIT

 

[AndroidRage]

herro AndroidRage,



status quo does not, per se, mean "politicians are serving the rich first, and the rest of the country second". it just refers to the existing state of affairs regarding whatever policy aspect we're tossing around, aye?

whatever else one might say, Donald Trump's take on Republicanism is the new status quo on the right, and the right controls half of congress, the white house and the SCOTUS. that's all i was referring to.

but sure, politicians seem to favor the powerful first. i don't disagree with that at all.

- IGIT

But policy wise, what has Trump really drastically changed in GOP? He is an idiot, definitely. But he falls right in line with what the GOP always aims to achieve. Tax cuts for the rich, shitting on women's rights to control their own bodies, and.... brown people bad I guess. He just does it all in a louder, dumber, less competent and more obviously corrupt way.

And status quo implies the rich and powerful calling all the shots and maintaining control over the government. If the government had to answer to the people instead that would be a change in that status quo.

Also, lmao@ Herro

 

[Anung Un Rama]

PS - thanks for a reasoned conversation. these "Joe Biden is a pedophile" responses were getting a little tedious for me.

IGs,

It's not a worthy topic at this stage, but I do think Trump will use that that footage to devastating effect.
If I were a Biden supporter I would be very, very concerned about what Trump would do with that.

PPS - you and i have spoken quite a bit, and i feel i have a decent take on how you see things. you gotta admit you were massively letdown that Mr. Sanders didn't absolutely dismember Mrs. Clinton in the 2016 debates. i know you were like, "WTF WAS THAT, BERNIE?!?!?!". maybe he wouldn't fare as well you think he would vs Mr. Trump?

I was disappointed, and I bet Bernie was too, especially toward the end of the primary when he realized just how much support her earned in such a short period fo time. I don't think Bernie thought he could win early on and wanted to push Hillary to the left without destroying her going into the general. Now we both know he went easy on her and her supporters are still in therapy over it. Crazy to think.

He won't have any of those concerns when debating Trump. It would all be on the line. He just has to be careful he doesn't spam the "racist" word too much. Closeted racists really hate that term and it could work against him.

Same with Warren. She is a distant second choice for me, but I have no doubts she would abuse Trump in a debate.

It will come down to how intellectually dishonest the media sets their standards.

-AUR