Elections Go Joe Biden!

[deviake]

heya there deviake,

do you know why Mr. Obama's policies were so centrist (he too was once a believer in single payer)?

because that's the makeup of the country.

the country isn't the War Room. the country isn't those filthy, utterly uninformed morons who marched in Occupy Wall Street (i fed those bozos when they were in charlotte and marched alongside of them, and, unfortunately, i spoke to alot of them. they did not know what they were talking about. at all.)

Hillary didn't lose due to her policies. the average voter is too fucking stupid to take the time to digest policy (pardon my profanity). she lost because of the perception that she was the most corrupt, untrustworthy politician that ever walked upon God's green earth - and that's it.

- IGIT

PS - if it comes across that i'm angry at you, i'm not at all.

Obama promised hope and change and we had just been through eight years of Bush. Also, the climate of the country has changed since his era and Bernie and the lack of meaningful change is a huge reason why. That's not a good faith argument.

All of Bernie's big tent policies like single payer poll favorably with the American public, including Republicans. Hillary lost the Rust Belt, Obama won it.

I think you're too cynical about country. Hillary had no message other than basically "more of the same! Things are great!" Even against someone as awful Donald Trump that didn't resonate. I don't think you've learned the lessons from that cycle.

Biden has plenty of scandal to focus on like Hillary and is an almost identical politician, plus he can barely remember the difference between his ass and a sandwich at this point. Hillary lost for multiple reasons including that, that she's a shitty politician with a shitty record (like Biden), offered nothing new, and ran a shitty campaign. She also split the base who were pissed about the DNC shenanigans and Bernie getting shafted. Centrists always talk about party unity but it's always the progressives who have to comply, not the other way around.

I think saying policy played(s) no part is ridiculous. You have to be genuine and you have to sell it, which Bernie is and to a large extent Warren.

Talking down to large swaths of the country and not offering anything new got us Donald Trump. He didn't materialize from another dimension, he didn't put anything in the water. People were/are sick of the same ol'.

It didn't come off that way, sa'll good, I just vehemently disagree with your assessment and I think you're making dangerous assumptions.

"Bernie won't be able to get anything done!" isn't an argument, he's got an incredible track record as is and it's clear that centrist Democrats cave to Republicans quite often so that argument doesn't hold water. Someone like Bernie will actually try. Even if we make these bold assumptions I'll take the person who will fight for what we want and the one who's policy positions poll favorably with both sides of the aisle.

 

[jrams]

 

[AndroidRage]

Than why did he LOSE? Where was his support then? You tell me what’s “pretty fucking stupid”.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vo...ernie-sanders-bro-base-polling-2020-president

Looks like you are.

 

[waiguoren]

Steven Bannon: First off, I don't think Joe Biden...I just don't see it. If the Democratic Party wants to take on Donald Trump, I've got a news flash for them: they are not going to take on Donald Trump with Joe Biden. He's not going to be able to stand up to the withering assault of Donald Trump. You've got to bring it. You've got to know how to hit a fastball, and Joe Biden's days of hitting the fastball are many years behind him.

 

[IGIT]

Feel free to look up the stats from the last election. Then feel free to come back and edit your post.

hi evansusmc2,

i don't have to look up the stats to know that the vote from minorities were not split between Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Trump.

like i said, bad analysis, evansusmc2.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

hi and good afternoon, VivaRevolution,

Yeah it does with certain people.

But what are you selling them?

What are you offering to get them to vote for you?

candidate Biden is selling them this;

1) eliminating mandatory minimum sentences for non-violent crime along with legalizing marijuana
2) two years of free community college
3) easing the monthly burden of student loans (students will now be able to pay down the debt in lower increments - and if one makes under 30K, you won't have to repay your loans until you're making more money than that per year)
4) supports nuclear power
5) taxing carbon emissions
6) expanding the ACA

there's more, but i'm sure you're probably falling asleep by now. i mean, its not a revolution - so i'll admit its a bit boring.

its definitely not a free wall that Mexico is going to pay for, i'll give you that.

Let them call it "free shit" all they want. Republicans are shaking in their boots that they can't offer medical care or canceling college debt for voting for them.

the RNC and the Trump campaign aren't going to say its free, though. they are going to say "YER TAXES ARE GOING GO UP, UP, UP!", along with the insinuation that all of this mostly to pay for blacks to attend college.

many senior citizens (who vote in astounding numbers) are going to be wigged out by the health care reform proposed by progressives. i can easily see them being sold on the idea that "THIS JUST MEANS LESS FOR ME!".

He has a wall IGIT. Offer something better than a wall, and you will win.

if the Democrats can convince the voters that Mexico will pay for single payer healthcare or student loan forgiveness, they may have a winning message.

i'll concede that point.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

hi deviake,

Obama promised hope and change and we had just been through eight years of Bush. Also, the climate of the country has changed since his era and Bernie and the lack of meaningful change is a huge reason why. That's not a good faith argument.

as i've said, every candidate that's run in opposition of the other party's incumbent offers hope and change. that's normal - its not new. not in the slightest.

i also disagree that the climate of the country has experienced some sea-change since the era of GWB.

All of Bernie's big tent policies like single payer poll favorably with the American public, including Republicans. Hillary lost the Rust Belt, Obama won it.

Mrs. Clinton supported UHC in 1993 and got squashed - so she abandoned it.

Mr. Obama supported a public option but couldn't get support he needed to enact it - so he abandoned it.

and Mr. Obama won every "battleground state" vs John Mccain, sure. if Mr. Trump happens to experience the biggest financial meltdown of our lifetime during his tenure after inflicting seven years of unpopular wars on the United States citizenry, the Democrats could probably nominate a bowl of fruit as their nominee - and they'd win.

I think you're too cynical about country. Hillary had no message other than basically "more of the same! Things are great!" Even against someone as awful Donald Trump that didn't resonate. I don't think you've learned the lessons from that cycle.

well, i think i'm a pretty cynical fellow - so you may be right on that point.

regarding Mrs. Clinton, i think its unrealistic to have expected her to bash the status quo established by President Obama, whom she served as Sec of State. its equally unrealistic to expect former VPOTUS Biden to run on a platform that slags all over his former boss, President Obama.

they both have run on the platform of "we've been on the correct path, and lets continue pushing for more".

Biden has plenty of scandal to focus on like Hillary and is an almost identical politician, plus he can barely remember the difference between his ass and a sandwich at this point.

i didn't support Mrs. Clinton in the primary of 2016 - though i'm still pretty unclear what her "scandal" was. i'm equally confused as to what Mr. Biden's "scandal" is. that he's a pedophile? or are you talking about the multiple sexual assaults he's being accused of?

I think saying policy played(s) no part is ridiculous. You have to be genuine and you have to sell it, which Bernie is and to a large extent Warren.

we'll have to agree to disagree here.

i don't think real policy plays that much of a role in the general (claiming that Mexico will pay for the wall is not policy. it was just a pile of fantasy driven manure). in the primary? yes. in the general? no.

Talking down to large swaths of the country and not offering anything new got us Donald Trump. He didn't materialize from another dimension, he didn't put anything in the water. People were/are sick of the same ol'.

a huge portion of the American electorate demands that they be talked down to. because they are either simpletons or too busy to pay attention to whats going on before them.

"Bernie won't be able to get anything done!" isn't an argument, he's got an incredible track record

he has? i admire Mr. Sanders a great deal, like many here, but...

Liberal Sen. Tammy Baldwin (D-Wis.), a Hillary Clinton supporter who describes herself as a big Sanders fan, struggled when asked ahead of last month’s debate in Milwaukee if she could point to examples of the Vermont senator’s actually influencing the outcome of legislation, other than the much praised bipartisan Veterans Affairs reform he led as chairman of that committee in the Senate.

“Um,” she said, pausing for a full eight seconds while thinking, “I’m sure I could. In terms of the things that he talks the most about, is when he was chair of the Veterans Affairs committee. But he actually compromised on a whole heck of a lot. Back in … it’s not coming to my mind right now.”
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/bernies-record-220508

as is and it's clear that centrist Democrats cave to Republicans quite often so that argument doesn't hold water.

the last time the centrist Democrats held the line for the liberal wing of the party when they actually had the power to pass legislation, they were excommunicated from office. go ask the Blue Dogs what happened to them in the mid terms of 2010 - and that was over the stand they took for middling legislation (Obamacare). I’m not saying it can’t happen again, but it’ll be a heavy lift.

- IGIT

 

[trident]

Steven Bannon: First off, I don't think Joe Biden...I just don't see it. If the Democratic Party wants to take on Donald Trump, I've got a news flash for them: they are not going to take on Donald Trump with Joe Biden. He's not going to be able to stand up to the withering assault of Donald Trump. You've got to bring it. You've got to know how to hit a fastball, and Joe Biden's days of hitting the fastball are many years behind him.

Lol Bannon is an idiot. Biden never hit a fastball.

 

[evansusmc2]

hi evansusmc2,

i don't have to look up the stats to know that the vote from minorities were not split between Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Trump.

like i said, bad analysis, evansusmc2.

- IGIT

I’m using my analysis based on recent history and continuing trend of democrat actions. Your analysis is coming from... ???????

 

[IGIT]

I’m using my analysis based on recent history. Your analysis is coming from... ???????

hi and good evening evansusmc2,

i am using recent history also - though you and i may define "split" rather differently.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

hiya kpt018

Listen, if Joe is the nominee I will gladly vote for him over Trump. I think you're spot on with all of your concerns and the ways Biden is materially better than Trump. I am also concerned that the country isn't woke enough for Warren and Bernie and plans that take away private insurance, use tax dollars to forgive student loans or go to black folks or that crush a $3T industry, etc. may be too much for moderates.

yes. this too is my concern.

But like @waiguoren has been saying Joe clearly looks like he has pretty substantial cognitive decline and Trump will eat him alive if he stutters, forgets his lines and just says stupid stuff.

if Mr. Biden really shows that his powers of cognition are compromised (beyond his tendency to be a gaffe machine), i'd reconsider, sure.

I also really like Buttigieg.

the last time i went to Mayor Pete's webpage, i saw a great deal of admirable sounding plans - and zero on tax policy. that worries me. i don't like that kinda omission.

i'm also of the mind that lots of the country isn't going to be ready for a gay POTUS. their "wokeness" is going to be put to a supreme test if Mr. Buttigieg is seen kissing his husband should he clinch the nomination. i don't think Rust Belt voters are going to cotton to that sorta thing.

I don't know who's electable or not but just wanted to reiterate there are warning signs with Biden. Quite frankly I don't think he was a very good candidate before (always prone to stupid comments) but seeing him really look old just furthers my view that he would be a bad selection.

i don't like some of the policies that he's committed to in the past - but then i'm a bit to the left of Mr. Biden, and always have been. i just think he's the best candidate to triumph over Mr. Trump. Mr. Biden is looking good in Pennsylvania, as @Fawlty said...and he's not going to terrify seniors in Florida (who don't want anyone getting excellent healthcare entitlements but themselves).

if Mrs. Clinton had won those two states, she'd be running for re-election right now.

- IGIT

 

[deviake]

hi deviake,



as i've said, every candidate that's run in opposition of the other party's incumbent offers hope and change. that's normal - its not new. not in the slightest.

i also disagree that the climate of the country has experienced some sea-change since the era of GWB.



Mrs. Clinton supported UHC in 1993 and got squashed - so she abandoned it.

Mr. Obama supported a public option but couldn't get support he needed to enact it - so he abandoned it.

and Mr. Obama won every "battleground state" vs John Mccain, sure. if Mr. Trump happens to experience the biggest financial meltdown of our lifetime during his tenure after inflicting seven years of unpopular wars on the United States citizenry, the Democrats could probably nominate a bowl of fruit as their nominee - and they'd win.



well, i think i'm a pretty cynical fellow - so you may be right on that point.

regarding Mrs. Clinton, i think its unrealistic to have expected her to bash the status quo established by President Obama, whom she served as Sec of State. its equally unrealistic to expect former VPOTUS Biden to run on a platform that slags all over his former boss, President Obama.

they both have run on the platform of "we've been on the correct path, and lets continue pushing for more".



i didn't support Mrs. Clinton in the primary of 2016 - though i'm still pretty unclear what her "scandal" was. i'm equally confused as to what Mr. Biden's "scandal" is. that he's a pedophile? or are you talking about the multiple sexual assaults he's being accused of?



we'll have to agree to disagree here.

i don't think real policy plays that much of a role in the general (claiming that Mexico will pay for the wall is not policy. it was just a pile of fantasy driven manure). in the primary? yes. in the general? no.



a huge portion of the American electorate demands that they be talked down to. because they are either simpletons or too busy to pay attention to whats going on before them.



he has? i admire Mr. Sanders a great deal, like many here, but...

Liberal Sen. Tammy Baldwin (D-Wis.), a Hillary Clinton supporter who describes herself as a big Sanders fan, struggled when asked ahead of last month’s debate in Milwaukee if she could point to examples of the Vermont senator’s actually influencing the outcome of legislation, other than the much praised bipartisan Veterans Affairs reform he led as chairman of that committee in the Senate.

“Um,” she said, pausing for a full eight seconds while thinking, “I’m sure I could. In terms of the things that he talks the most about, is when he was chair of the Veterans Affairs committee. But he actually compromised on a whole heck of a lot. Back in … it’s not coming to my mind right now.”
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/bernies-record-220508



the last time the centrist Democrats held the line for the liberal wing of the party when they actually had the power to pass legislation, they were excommunicated from office. go ask the Blue Dogs what happened to them in the mid terms of 2010 - and that was over the stand they took for middling legislation (Obamacare). I’m not saying it can’t happen again, but it’ll be a heavy lift.

- IGIT

We're gonna have to agree to disagree, I don't have time nor desire to keep going back and forth at length.

Ultimately I don't think he gets out of the Dem Primary anyway.

 

[IGIT]

We're gonna have to agree to disagree, I don't have time nor desire to keep going back and forth at length.

Ultimately I don't think he gets out of the Dem Primary anyway.

hiya deviake,

fair enough, matey.

- IGIT

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Lol Bannon is an idiot. Biden never hit a fastball.

The line is "he's losing his fastball", not "can't hit a fastball" if gaffed that, maybe in tribute to Biden, idk.

 

[VivaRevolution]

hi and good afternoon, VivaRevolution,



candidate Biden is selling them this;

1) eliminating mandatory minimum sentences for non-violent crime along with legalizing marijuana
2) two years of free community college
3) easing the monthly burden of student loans (students will now be able to pay down the debt in lower increments - and if one makes under 30K, you won't have to repay your loans until you're making more money than that per year)
4) supports nuclear power
5) taxing carbon emissions
6) expanding the ACA

there's more, but i'm sure you're probably falling asleep by now. i mean, its not a revolution - so i'll admit its a bit boring.

its definitely not a free wall that Mexico is going to pay for, i'll give you that.



the RNC and the Trump campaign aren't going to say its free, though. they are going to say "YER TAXES ARE GOING GO UP, UP, UP!", along with the insinuation that all of this mostly to pay for blacks to attend college.

many senior citizens (who vote in astounding numbers) are going to be wigged out by the health care reform proposed by progressives. i can easily see them being sold on the idea that "THIS JUST MEANS LESS FOR ME!".



if the Democrats can convince the voters that Mexico will pay for single payer healthcare or student loan forgiveness, they may have a winning message.

i'll concede that point.

- IGIT

We should stop conceding the ground that anyone has to pay for it.

The go to response should be, "who paid for our wars?"

Where is the increase in taxes for those multi trillions of dollars.

Dude the best thing that ever happened to Democrats, was Trump funding his wall through military spending.

You can fund whatever you want now with defense spending.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Than why did he LOSE? Where was his support then?

Because no one knew his name.

Trump wouldn't be president if the media hadn't created a celebrity with 100% name recognition for decades.

 

[trident]

Because no one knew his name.

Trump wouldn't be president if the media hadn't created a celebrity with 100% name recognition for decades.

To be fair he has always been a shameless self promoter

Red meat for the dittoheads

 

[evansusmc2]

Because no one knew his name.

Trump wouldn't be president if the media hadn't created a celebrity with 100% name recognition for decades.

The “media” isn’t why trump won? Wasn’t the media the reason why he struggled?? Wasn’t the media tryin to bury him (MSM)? And every news outlet posting polls say Trump was going to lose (CNN, NBC etc etc)?

So no one knew Bernie’s name? Uuuuuum OK...that’s the 3rd different excuse I’ve read on this forum today. It’s getting pathetic.

 

[VivaRevolution]

The “media” isn’t why trump won? Wasn’t the media the reason why he struggled?? Wasn’t the media tryin to bury him (MSM)? And every news outlet posting polls say Trump was going to lose (CNN, NBC etc etc)?

So no one knew Bernie’s name? Uuuuuum OK...that’s the 3rd different excuse I’ve read on this forum today. It’s getting pathetic.

So you ask why, and then tell people how dumb there answers are without explaining why, huh?

Sounds like the response of a cunt.

 

[evansusmc2]

So you ask why, and then tell people how dumb there answers are without explaining why, huh?

Sounds like the response of a cunt.

That’s how you interpreted my last post ? Oh such a delicate snowflake you’ve proven to be.