Crime Special counsel charges FBI informant with lying to the bureau about Hunter and Joe Biden

[Mr Holmes]

Nope, he even said he didn't when the Ukranians called it on him.

I've already addressed this as well. He was confident Obama would back his decision. That's not the same as he didn't make the decision himself.

 

[panamaican]

In the Executive that's true, In the Senate he can.

Even in the Senate his role is extremely limited and wouldn't apply here since establishment of foreign policy is the realm of the executive branch, not Congress.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

You're full of shit and acting like the Vice President holds no power only exemplifies how dumb sound.

Nobody is saying they don't hold any power. They just don't have the power to arbitrarily withhold foreign aid or reject Electors.

 

[ShadowRun]

Even in the Senate his role is extremely limited and wouldn't apply here since establishment of foreign policy is the realm of the executive branch, not Congress.

That being the case, in a separate situation why would Biden say Harris is in charge of the border issues in 21/22?

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Hola said it much better than I, to be fair,

It's hilarious to me that people credit the vice president with any duty whatsoever other than to be a stand-in for the president when the president can't be somewhere and needs a body to fill in. Until Dick Chaney, the vice presidency was seen as a lame-ass position. Do you even remember who the last vice president was before him without looking it up?

Now that's an inconvenient truth.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

I've already addressed this as well. He was confident Obama would back his decision. That's not the same as he didn't make the decision himself.

Oh so your theory is that he flew to Ukraine on his own knowing he didn't have the power to withhold the aid, gave the Ukrainians the ultimatum and hoped that Obama would back him up?

 

[LangfordBarrow]

And? All this means is he said Obama had his back.

 

[Mr Holmes]

Nobody is saying they don't hold any power. They just don't have the power to arbitrarily withhold foreign aid or reject Electors.

Several people have been suggesting it in this thread. I'll put it this way. Is it possible for a VP to make a diplomatic decision without verifying with the POTUS first?

 

[Mr Holmes]

 

[panamaican]

That being the case, in a separate situation why would Biden say Harris is in charge of the border issues in 21/22?

Honestly? To give her some credibility on the national stage.

She doesn't have the power to do shit with the border unless he signs off. So, he's telling everyone that she's the point person so that they have to deal with her to get proposals to him. It loops her in and forces the players to engage her. Which could be beneficial politically down the road.

It's optics and politics. But in reality? He still makes all of the ultimate decisions.

Not to belittle her but it's like going to a restaurant and telling the waitress that your kid will order for himself. At the end of the day, you're paying the bill and if you don't approve of what your kid is trying to order, you're going to shut it down. The illusion of power.

 

[ShadowRun]

Honestly? To give her some credibility on the national stage.

She doesn't have the power to do shit with the border unless he signs off. So, he's telling everyone that she's the point person so that they have to deal with her to get proposals to him. It loops her in and forces the players to engage her. Which could be beneficial politically down the road.

It's optics and politics. But in reality? He still makes all of the ultimate decisions.

Not to belittle her but it's like going to a restaurant and telling the waitress that your kid will order for himself. At the end of the day, you're paying the bill and if you don't approve of what your kid is trying to order, you're going to shut it down. The illusion of power.

I agree with that, Dick Cheney even though on paper didn't hold all the power it seemed like he did a lot.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Its certainly possible that Obama was fully on board or even ordered it, but I also think its possible that Joe made the call himself. Joe sure makes it sound like it was his call when he recalled the events. The truth might be somewhere in the middle. I find it a bit questionable that Obama and his people didn't see the problems of sending Joe to surprise them with the new condition considering the optics of a conflict of interest.

I think all this talk about the VP being some sort of spokesperson with out any authority is rubbish.

"It's possible..." will never get an indictment.

 

[panamaican]

Several people have been suggesting it in this thread. I'll put it this way. Is it possible for a VP to make a diplomatic decision without verifying with the POTUS first?

No. This isn't 2 dudes in a bar somewhere hashing out a used car sale. The VP is there with a shit ton of representatives from the POTUS. He can't make a diplomatic decision in that room without the President's okay because the President's people are right there and they know what the POTUS actually wants. The VP's job is negotiate the deal the POTUS already told him to get. That requires skill since the other side doesn't have to accept the deal. But the VP isn't acting without oversight literally in the room with him.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Apparently I think he does.

FTFY

 

[Mr Holmes]

It's possible

There you go. Glad to see you're coming around.

 

[panamaican]

I agree with that, Dick Cheney even though on paper didn't hold all the power it seemed like he did a lot.

That's because GWB took policy direction from Cheney. Cheney (and friends) created the policy in private, sold GWB on it and then GWB approved it and sent Cheney out to execute it.

I don't think Harris is giving Biden policy direction on the border. She's giving advice, feedback, etc. but he's not taking direction from her. He's much more likely to be taking it from Mayorka or policy wonks.

And I don't think Obama was taking policy direction from Biden.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Several people have been suggesting it in this thread. I'll put it this way. Is it possible for a VP to make a diplomatic decision without verifying with the POTUS first?

I'm not an expert in government but I'd say he couldn't make any binding decision.

 

[JadeOwl]

You would think after a month or two of paying Hunter that much Ukraine would want favors or kick Hunter out. No one pays that long and that much and doesn’t get nothing in return

Dude, that is one really short term way to look at things.

The concept might be foreign to most people in the US, but there is such a thing as delayed gratification.

Hunter getting paid by them is more credible than a informant, that’s the smoking gun in a way

No it is not. It is a lead, but it is not evidence of anything. In and of itself it is not enough to convict Hunter of anything, let alone impeach or prosecute his father. You need proof that Hunter did something illegal in return for that money.

Paying an unqualified jackass to sit on a board or be a consultant is not illegal, as far as I know. Unless you can prove they did something else that’s illegal in return for the appointment.

 

[Mr Holmes]

@LangfordBarrow @panamaican @sickc0d3r @Voodoo_Child906 , Its been good debating but I need to get some work done and try to get a few chores out of the way before the weekend.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I agree with that, Dick Cheney even though on paper didn't hold all the power it seemed like he did a lot.

GW was a weak President that was manipulated by Cheney.