Why the narrative that Jon is a duck will always haunt his legacy

[MarioLemieux]

I fancy myself a historian of combat sports and here's my take:

Let's look at Ali for instance, a large reason he is considered the GOAT next to SRR is because of his win over George Foreman late in his career. He took on the younger, larger beast who was thought to destroy him (the first man favoured to beat him) and he knocked him out. This shut down all questions of his legitimacy. Even though Ali lost several times later in his career, he won the love of the people. Tom is essentially Jon's George Foreman, but it seems Jon doesn't want it. If Ali had retired before Foreman and ducked him he would NEVER have the status he does.

This Jon and Aspinall drama is not merely a fleeting moment in Jon's career. It's something that has been blasted on media/social media since Tom won the interim title against Pavlovich a year ago... chants of Tom everywhere Jon goes, and be sure the drama will go on for several more months, maybe even longer. The idea that Jon is a duck is ingrained into the minds of the public like no other fighter in MMA before him... and before the drama with Tom it was with Ngannou.

To conclude... Jon's resume is immaculate, but unless he takes the fight against Tom there will always be a strong narrative that he was a duck, on top of the cheat narrative from his positive steroid tests. Unlike Ali, he does not have the love of the people, so these asterisks will always be used against him. The UFC themselves will probably throw Jon under the bus once he declines the Aspinall fight and retires from the sport.

 

[Substance Abuse]

 

[Iroh]

Yup, I've been saying this too. It will stick like spilled oil on the feathers of a poor duckie.

 

[ferrisjso]

Its bad enough people are disrespecting Jon Jones but you got to bring George Foreman into this by comparing him to Tom Aspinall. If Jones beats Aspinall Jons haters would call him an overhyped bum who fooled everyone.

Thats a big part of why Jones fought Stipe. In 30 years he knows Stipe will be a big name that reads off the resume and 42 isn't that old. Aspinall hes really gambling on Tom making the win age well.

 

[Iroh]

View attachment 1072220

Is he holding a fart or what am I looking at?

 

[markg171]

I ain’t reading you trying to claim a guy who’s been champ since 2011 has a ruined legacy.

 

[MarioLemieux]

I ain’t reading you trying to claim a guy who’s been champ since 2011 has a ruined legacy.

He wasn't even active for several of those years due to sitting out because of steroid test failures and "ducking" (Ngannou).

As I said Jon has the best resume in MMA history, but he does not have the love of the people, and legacy is decided by the people who currently see him as both a duck and a cheat.

History will not look as fondly on him as he hopes despite his incredible accolades.

 

[chinarice]

Jon cemented himself as the GOAT if you don't care about the PED shit. The HW run is not changing anything, nor is not fighting Tom Aspinall. Anyone indicating this impacts his legacy is just being ridiculous. He didn't even need to go to HW. He already cemented his legacy.

 

[MarioLemieux]

Jon cemented himself as the GOAT if you don't care about the PED shit. The HW run is not changing anything, nor is not fighting Tom Aspinall. Anyone indicating this impacts his legacy is just being ridiculous. He didn't even need to go to HW. He already cemented his legacy.

No way. You are a prisoner of the moment. This is recency bias.

Dana and the UFC catcalling Jon as the concencus GOAT right now will go right out the window once he retires especially if he ducks Tom.

Fighters in the new age that come along that even sniff Jon's achievements will be pushed ahead of him in GOAT talks if they don't have asterisks next to them as strong as Jons and also have the love of the people.

 

[chinarice]

No way. You are a prisoner of the moment. This is recency bias.

Dana and the UFC catcalling Jon as the concencus GOAT right now will go right out the window once he retires especially if he ducks Tom.

Fighters in the new age that come along that even sniff Jon's achievements will be pushed ahead of him in GOAT talks if they don't have asterisks next to them as strong as Jons and also have the love of the people.

Who is the GOAT? I'll wait for your opinion so I can tell you why they're not and use the same logic you do.

 

[MarioLemieux]

Who is the GOAT? I'll wait for your opinion so I can tell you why they're not and use the same logic you do.

Who the GOAT is is a narrative that consistantly changes throughout the sports history. Currently, the world is being told it is Jon.

But I can tell you who won't hold on to that moniker when they retire.

The guy who is seen as a cheat and a duck and has more asterisks next to his name than any other fighter even up for consideration. The guy who did everything possible to make sure he does not have the love of the fans.

 

[icemun]

I fancy myself a historian of combat sports and here's my take:

Let's look at Ali for instance, a large reason he is considered the GOAT next to SRR is because of his win over George Foreman late in his career. He took on the younger, larger beast who was thought to destroy him (the first man favoured to beat him) and he knocked him out. This shut down all questions of his legitimacy. Even though Ali lost several times later in his career, he won the love of the people. Tom is essentially Jon's George Foreman, but it seems Jon doesn't want it. If Ali had retired before Foreman and ducked him he would NEVER have the status he does.

This Jon and Aspinall drama is not merely a fleeting moment in Jon's career. It's something that has been blasted on media/social media since Tom won the interim title against Pavlovich a year ago... chants of Tom everywhere Jon goes, and be sure the drama will go on for several more months, maybe even longer. The idea that Jon is a duck is ingrained into the minds of the public like no other fighter in MMA before him... and before the drama with Tom it was with Ngannou.

To conclude... Jon's resume is immaculate, but unless he takes the fight against Tom there will always be a strong narrative that he was a duck, on top of the cheat narrative from his positive steroid tests. Unlike Ali, he does not have the love of the people, so these asterisks will always be used against him. The UFC themselves will probably throw Jon under the bus once he declines the Aspinall fight and retires from the sport.

no one will remember tom after his next loss

and if Jones choked him out, he will be forgotten faster than Gane

or other great Jones killers, like Gus and Pav

 

[chinarice]

Who the GOAT is is a narrative that consistantly changes throughout the sports history. Currently, the world is being told it is Jon.

But I can tell you who won't hold on to that moniker when they retire.

The guy who is seen as a cheat and a duck and has more asterisks next to his name than any other fighter even up for consideration. The guy who did everything possible to make sure he does not have the love of the fans.

As I said, if you don't care about PEDs, he is the GOAT. I don't assume the people who didn't pop are clean. That's just being very naive IMO

 

[MarioLemieux]

no one will remember tom after his next loss

and if Jones choked him out, he will be forgotten faster than Gane

or other great Jones killers, like Gus and Pav

Nobody is saying Tom is going to be the GOAT.

What I'm saying is Tom is will be remembered as the guy who made it blatantly obvious that Jon was a duck.

 

[NoSmilez]

Jones retired a long time ago. He is just trying to get paid. He was underpaid for the majority of his career but I will admit that it's also his own doing that he missed out on money fights. I don't think refusing to fight hurts his legacy. Most casuals don't really care about stuff like this. I think it's funny there is now a narrative of Jones ducking Rumble.

If Jones can secure an easy fight with Poatan then he has the opportunity to tie Stipe for 3 consecutive championship defenses for HW. If the 4th defense happens to be with Aspinall then it's for all the marbles. I don't like Jones but I have to respect his game if he is able to lie and scheme his way into being the "GOAT" for two divisions.

 

[AmonTobin]

Moving to HW full steam ahead 2 years sooner, taking on Ngannou like a boss and then defending against Aspinall like a boss (assuming he gets past Francis) would have put him over the top. Nobody would be laughing at him today. Nobody would be complaining (as long as he passed his drug tests). But here we are. Jones didn’t just choose the path of least resistance, he & UFC laid the bricks for it.

 

[HHJ]

Jones retired a long time ago.

 

[MarioLemieux]

Jones retired a long time ago. He is just trying to get paid. He was underpaid for the majority of his career but I will admit that it's also his own doing that he missed out on money fights. I don't think refusing to fight hurts his legacy. Most casuals don't really care about stuff like this. I think it's funny there is now a narrative of Jones ducking Rumble.

If Jones can secure an easy fight with Poatan then he has the opportunity to tie Stipe for 3 consecutive championship defenses for HW. If the 4th defense happens to be with Aspinall then it's for all the marbles. I don't like Jones but I have to respect his game if he is able to lie and scheme his way into being the "GOAT" for two divisions.

Jones should have retired a long time ago.

Him sticking around cherry picking fighters and holding up divisions is going to work against his legacy.

He's brought way too much attention to it.

 

[NoSmilez]

Jones should have retired a long time ago.

Him sticking around cherry picking fighters and holding up divisions is going to work against his legacy.

He's brought way too much attention to it.

I been saying this for the longest time. Just treat him as a retired fighter. He is just doing extra credit work now. We are getting too angry at him for not losing but his story is pretty much over already.

 

[the_details]

I'm not sure it affects the legacy of his career wholesale, because his accomplishments during his LWH run, assuming you disregard his PED issues and legal trouble, are very impressive. But it doesn't add anything to his career if he jumps up to HW, fights a guy who has an obvious deficiency in one of Jon's strongest areas (Gane and his wrestling) and hold up the division while he waits to fights an obviously past prime former champ who's been inactive, is coming off a brutal loss, and has done nothing to earn his way back to the title while other obvious contenders exist.

I don't particularly blame Jon for this situation. IMHO the UFC should have stripped him of the title for inactivity instead of creating an interim belt and then having that belt defended. I don't think interim belt should ever be defended, you should be fighting to unify the title before that happens, or the other champion should be stripped and the next fight should be for the undisputed title. But maybe that's just me. I also find it ridiculous that there's any conversation who's next in line for the title. So Jones bringing up other fighters to fight for the title is nonsense. It's either Aspinall or you get stripped and you fight whoever you want. So I don't blame Jon for the situation existing, where we have 2 champions at HW. But I do think him actively avoiding the discussion of fighting Tom Apsinall does affect his legacy as a HW champion.