People thinking Miocic was bad vs Jones are stupid

[SuperAlly]

I think really what it shows you is some people who may have watched the sport for years get so caught up in UFC hype they actually understand less and less of it, they basically only see the UFC spiel which is that Stipe aged 42 coming off of a KO loss 3+ years prior was at his peak.

Why I think talk of "casuals" is often amusing on Sherdog, some Sherdogger's who've had their brains rotted by UFC hype are far dumber than the average casual fan, there basically marks for UFC hype and have tied their ego to it.

This makes me laugh.

It’s the kind of thinking conspiracy theory nuts comes out with - “only we know how to analyse information provided by different sources and only we know which ones to believe”.

There is no reason to think people on Sherdog are on average any more easily duped than any other cohort of MMA fans. Some will, some won’t.

The entire premise of your post is fantastical nonsense.

 

[moreorless87]

This makes me laugh.

It’s the kind of thinking conspiracy theory nuts comes out with - “only we know how to analyse information provided by different sources and only we know which ones to believe”.

There is no reason to think people on Sherdog are on average any more easily duped than any other cohort of MMA fans. Some will, some won’t.

The entire premise of your post is fantastical nonsense.

Really? you think the UFC i a trustworthy source when it comes to telling us the form of fighters in this position?

I'll trust me eyes and experience watching the sport to tell me Stipe looked old and slow.

 

[SuperAlly]

Really? you think the UFC i a trustworthy source when it comes to telling us the form of fighters in this position?

I'll trust me eyes and experience watching the sport to tell me Stipe looked old and slow.

You completely misunderstand the point.

You have decided you are smarter than all sherdog and only you have the intellectual brilliance to know who and when and what to listen to.

Let me break it to you. You aren’t that special. Many people on sherdog are capable of critical thinking, some like Dreyga are not. Same as in the outside world, some can think for themselves and some cannot.

Your original premise that sherdog members are somehow more likely to fall for UFC propaganda any other UfC fan is idiotic.

 

[moreorless87]

You completely misunderstand the point.

You have decided you are smarter than all sherdog and only you have the intellectual brilliance to know who and when and what to listen to.

Let me break it to you. You aren’t that special. Many people on sherdog are capable of critical thinking, some like Dreyga are not. Same as in the outside world, some can think for themselves and some cannot.

Your original premise that sherdog members are somehow more likely to fall for UFC propaganda any other UfC fan is idiotic.

No I don't think I have at all, my point was based on exactly that the UFC is a VERY untrustworthy source and a lot of Sherdog posters basically go along with whatever they tell them.

Notice I don't mention myself as being "smarter" but rather very casual fans being so, basically that the boundary for being smarter than these people is very low indeed.

 

[SuperAlly]

No I don't think I have at all, my point was based on exactly that the UFC is a VERY untrustworthy source and a lot of Sherdog posters basically go along with whatever they tell them.

That's a very poor analysis of this forum which has legions of posters shitting on the UFC at every opportunity and thinking you fight cheap is funny whilst ignoring all the other orgs that pay fighters worse.

It is not really supported that in general sherdog laps up what UFC puts out. If anything sherdog as a generalisation is probably more critical of the ufc and Dana than offline fans.

It was an absurd proposition from the outset

 

[moreorless87]

That's a very poor analysis of this forum which has legions of posters shitting on the UFC at every opportunity and thinking you fight cheap is funny whilst ignoring all the other orgs that pay fighters worse.

It is not really supported that in general sherdog laps up what UFC puts out. If anything sherdog as a generalisation is probably more critical of the ufc and Dana than offline fans.

It was an absurd proposition from the outset

I don't think it is at all, it doesn't account for everyone of course but it does account for a significant number of posters who tend to be VERY vocal.

I mean look at this thread, one such poster started it basically telling everyone their wrong about Stipe being off prime but those calling him out are the arrogant ones?

His analysis amount to little more than "it was a big money fight so Stipe was definitely motivated and at his peak" when the reality of course is a big money fight can also bring someone back who is clearly well off their peak, something we've seen many many times in fightsport.

 

[JustforBROCK]

There are many "MMA/boxing analysts", like that ThePainGain dude, or that MMA Guru or wtv (this dude looks kinda disturbed tho) that sees the Jon Jones vs Stipe fight as underwhelming as it looked slow to them...

Nevermind the fact that if anything, Stipe proved that in that last fight that was meaningful to him, he was considerably better than Gane, Volkov, etc... Jon Jones vs Gane looked like a mismatch... Jon Jones vs Stipe looked like a fight in which someone could give Jon Jones some trouble, but only to an extent, mid difficulty.

Stipe was likely in a considerably better shape than vs Ngannou. He got older, but getting older doesn't always makes one worse. Sometimes taking a break off the game, finding a fight that they want (in case, since the start, Stipe said he'd go back to HW no matter whether JJ appeared there, but that with JJ there, that's the opponent that to him, made it perfect). He stated with that poker face in some podcasts that to him, fighting Jon Jones is even above the belt itself, that having his comeback be a super fight vs Jon Jones is great because he wanted to fight JJ above all). It could be seen after the JJ vs Gane fight, in which Stipe was soon interviewed, that he looked motivated and excited, he told about how it's such a big deal having Jon Jones as the opponent and that he was already preparing to push his training...

... When asked about Tom, Stipe sounded dismissive and even said "if I have to fight him, ok, we'll figure him out of JJ and I'll fight him, but my focus is on Jon Jones totally, that's what matters to me". That fight was already anticipated with both JJ and Stipe getting a win over DC. Stipe is often cited as not only the best HW, but the most complete one and the one with the highest fighting IQ... He likely sees the fighting IQ of Jon Jones, he knows JJ is the biggest name one can fight against in MMA, ever... He seemed to me to be having his motivation waning a little with time... He beat DC twice, then faced Ngannou after winning once, and the payment was just not good for those HWs... For Stipe, a reigning champion, the biggest name there alongside Ngannou, it might have been frustrating to be fighting constantly and earning so below what his abilities as a fighter would make it more than valid to earn way more... He's got kids, he's risking his healthy, and getting paid what he should of be paid more fairly would be a bigger motivator... As well as the fact he never adopted a trash talk posture because he is not that way, he isn't gonna fake something besides what he considers enough as a fighter... So despite being the best heavyweight, he was fighting monsters with a rewards far from what he deserved. The JJ fight brought the biggest fight money he had ever had, and JJ is arguably a name that excited him more. Ngannou maybe in the first fight, but fighting with him again, already not being satisfied with the ways of UFC but being mostly silent, likely didn't bring in him the motivation — which the JJ fight, with ppl doubting he should even be there, gave him plenty — Stipe said the fact people were already taking his loss for granted only fueled him even more, as he likes shutting people up.

That fight was likely against Miocic in which he had to offer as his best as a fighter.... Having already gained experience from many fights and having that motivation for one last time in such a significant event.

Jon Jones might be better now than he was in the past... He had an easier time vs Stipe than vs Cormier despite the fact this Stipe was likely better than the Cormier Jon Jones faced... And likely the best opponent he has already faced, the Stipe that, with the motivation for one last big show, is likely better than Ngannou and all heavyweights...

Hahahaha. Bro. That was a waste of time. If this is your opinion then your 'opinion' of MMA is worth as much as a pile of cat shit.

 

[Koya]

There are many "MMA/boxing analysts", like that ThePainGain dude, or that MMA Guru or wtv (this dude looks kinda disturbed tho) that sees the Jon Jones vs Stipe fight as underwhelming as it looked slow to them...

Nevermind the fact that if anything, Stipe proved that in that last fight that was meaningful to him, he was considerably better than Gane, Volkov, etc... Jon Jones vs Gane looked like a mismatch... Jon Jones vs Stipe looked like a fight in which someone could give Jon Jones some trouble, but only to an extent, mid difficulty.

Stipe was likely in a considerably better shape than vs Ngannou. He got older, but getting older doesn't always makes one worse. Sometimes taking a break off the game, finding a fight that they want (in case, since the start, Stipe said he'd go back to HW no matter whether JJ appeared there, but that with JJ there, that's the opponent that to him, made it perfect). He stated with that poker face in some podcasts that to him, fighting Jon Jones is even above the belt itself, that having his comeback be a super fight vs Jon Jones is great because he wanted to fight JJ above all). It could be seen after the JJ vs Gane fight, in which Stipe was soon interviewed, that he looked motivated and excited, he told about how it's such a big deal having Jon Jones as the opponent and that he was already preparing to push his training...

... When asked about Tom, Stipe sounded dismissive and even said "if I have to fight him, ok, we'll figure him out of JJ and I'll fight him, but my focus is on Jon Jones totally, that's what matters to me". That fight was already anticipated with both JJ and Stipe getting a win over DC. Stipe is often cited as not only the best HW, but the most complete one and the one with the highest fighting IQ... He likely sees the fighting IQ of Jon Jones, he knows JJ is the biggest name one can fight against in MMA, ever... He seemed to me to be having his motivation waning a little with time... He beat DC twice, then faced Ngannou after winning once, and the payment was just not good for those HWs... For Stipe, a reigning champion, the biggest name there alongside Ngannou, it might have been frustrating to be fighting constantly and earning so below what his abilities as a fighter would make it more than valid to earn way more... He's got kids, he's risking his healthy, and getting paid what he should of be paid more fairly would be a bigger motivator... As well as the fact he never adopted a trash talk posture because he is not that way, he isn't gonna fake something besides what he considers enough as a fighter... So despite being the best heavyweight, he was fighting monsters with a rewards far from what he deserved. The JJ fight brought the biggest fight money he had ever had, and JJ is arguably a name that excited him more. Ngannou maybe in the first fight, but fighting with him again, already not being satisfied with the ways of UFC but being mostly silent, likely didn't bring in him the motivation — which the JJ fight, with ppl doubting he should even be there, gave him plenty — Stipe said the fact people were already taking his loss for granted only fueled him even more, as he likes shutting people up.

That fight was likely against Miocic in which he had to offer as his best as a fighter.... Having already gained experience from many fights and having that motivation for one last time in such a significant event.

Jon Jones might be better now than he was in the past... He had an easier time vs Stipe than vs Cormier despite the fact this Stipe was likely better than the Cormier Jon Jones faced... And likely the best opponent he has already faced, the Stipe that, with the motivation for one last big show, is likely better than Ngannou and all heavyweights...

Stipe didn't win for 5 years prior to that fight. He was beyond washed up

 

[OldBoy91]

Watch the fight closely. Pay attention, put in slow motion...

No need to watch in slow mo dude.

Stipe was moving in slow motion even in real time.

 

[Tweak896]

I wish AI could scan Stipes last fight against the rest in his Career, measure how fast or slow he really was against Jones. Even against Ngannou where Stipe was a great win, yet his next fight doesn't count. Jones looked faster but people act like Jones beat the ghost of Mark Kerr. Stipe had crazy durability in the fight and that's usually biggest indicator for aged fighters.

 

[fzoid4454]

There are many "MMA/boxing analysts", like that ThePainGain dude, or that MMA Guru or wtv (this dude looks kinda disturbed tho) that sees the Jon Jones vs Stipe fight as underwhelming as it looked slow to them...

Nevermind the fact that if anything, Stipe proved that in that last fight that was meaningful to him, he was considerably better than Gane, Volkov, etc... Jon Jones vs Gane looked like a mismatch... Jon Jones vs Stipe looked like a fight in which someone could give Jon Jones some trouble, but only to an extent, mid difficulty.

Stipe was likely in a considerably better shape than vs Ngannou. He got older, but getting older doesn't always makes one worse. Sometimes taking a break off the game, finding a fight that they want (in case, since the start, Stipe said he'd go back to HW no matter whether JJ appeared there, but that with JJ there, that's the opponent that to him, made it perfect). He stated with that poker face in some podcasts that to him, fighting Jon Jones is even above the belt itself, that having his comeback be a super fight vs Jon Jones is great because he wanted to fight JJ above all). It could be seen after the JJ vs Gane fight, in which Stipe was soon interviewed, that he looked motivated and excited, he told about how it's such a big deal having Jon Jones as the opponent and that he was already preparing to push his training...

... When asked about Tom, Stipe sounded dismissive and even said "if I have to fight him, ok, we'll figure him out of JJ and I'll fight him, but my focus is on Jon Jones totally, that's what matters to me". That fight was already anticipated with both JJ and Stipe getting a win over DC. Stipe is often cited as not only the best HW, but the most complete one and the one with the highest fighting IQ... He likely sees the fighting IQ of Jon Jones, he knows JJ is the biggest name one can fight against in MMA, ever... He seemed to me to be having his motivation waning a little with time... He beat DC twice, then faced Ngannou after winning once, and the payment was just not good for those HWs... For Stipe, a reigning champion, the biggest name there alongside Ngannou, it might have been frustrating to be fighting constantly and earning so below what his abilities as a fighter would make it more than valid to earn way more... He's got kids, he's risking his healthy, and getting paid what he should of be paid more fairly would be a bigger motivator... As well as the fact he never adopted a trash talk posture because he is not that way, he isn't gonna fake something besides what he considers enough as a fighter... So despite being the best heavyweight, he was fighting monsters with a rewards far from what he deserved. The JJ fight brought the biggest fight money he had ever had, and JJ is arguably a name that excited him more. Ngannou maybe in the first fight, but fighting with him again, already not being satisfied with the ways of UFC but being mostly silent, likely didn't bring in him the motivation — which the JJ fight, with ppl doubting he should even be there, gave him plenty — Stipe said the fact people were already taking his loss for granted only fueled him even more, as he likes shutting people up.

That fight was likely against Miocic in which he had to offer as his best as a fighter.... Having already gained experience from many fights and having that motivation for one last time in such a significant event.

Jon Jones might be better now than he was in the past... He had an easier time vs Stipe than vs Cormier despite the fact this Stipe was likely better than the Cormier Jon Jones faced... And likely the best opponent he has already faced, the Stipe that, with the motivation for one last big show, is likely better than Ngannou and all heavyweights...

Did he look old and tired? Was he dominated by Jones?

Yes and yes.

Is there any 25 year old in their prime who wouldn't look like a 40-something old geezer who was washed up after that brutal beating in the first round? No. I can't believe Stipe survived that. Of course it took everything out of him. It would for anyone, at any age.

I can't say whether Stipe was old and washed up, for that reason. I am impressed that he was able to get out of the round and continue, so he deserves credit for that.

 

[TheGreatA]

He looks fine if you watch the fight in 2x speed.

 

[mogul]

Undeserved title shot against a guy who has been inactive for so many years after being knocked out.

The fight was a joke and went exactly how it should.

Jones fighting Ned Simpson

 

[AmonTobin]

The fight sucked and had no reason to be booked. It wasn't for the fans, it was for Jon.

 

[markg171]

Any discussion of how Stipe looked without acknowledging that he was ragdolled and elbowed into oblivion at the very start of the fight is worthless. Age not withstanding, that obviously was huge for Jones. Stipe was immediately put on notice that he wasn't on Jon's level and badly compromised. Kudos to him for even making it out of the 1st.

The irony of this of course is that Jon began his title reign 14 years ago by similarly badly compromising Shogun with a flying knee to start their fight, immediately swaying the fight in his favour with something Shogun never recovered from. Everybody universally acknowledges that that impacted the fight, but we're just not allowed to mention he did something similar to Stipe too?

 

[markg171]

Khabib wasn't the Ww champ and holding the division up

Khabib said he retired in October and then didn't actually relinquish the belt until the UFC threatened to strip his ass in March when he was still holding onto it for dear life but refusing new fights.

Let alone his other bad habit of fighting 1x a year as champ.

Great job mate. Stellar choice.

 

[SuspectChin]

309 Miocic was the best Stipe ever.

 

[Luffy]

UFC paid a retired dude to put over their star.

If so, you're assuming they want to build the star quality in Jon Jones... If that's so, why'd the UFC want JJ vs Aspinall badly if they intent is to market JJ as going with no losses? Come on now.

No treatise on the merits of the top contenders of the LHW division changes whether or not Jones and Stipe looked slow in a HW bout.

You think it's slow, but that's what may appear to be... I think the precision of the attacks were such that the attacks itself, when landed, were quick. JJ's kick to Miocic's belly (many times) was not just fast, but very precise... At least in analysis of the fight, it's pictured to be hit in precise body parts, with the toes sticking it, that are more sensible to pain... The high kick may have seem slower than prime Jones, but it also was one that swiftly changed directions. JJ made the motion to kick the body and quickly raised it up with perfect technique to the head. His jabs were also pretty quick... Really, they were pretty quick, no way around it. And Teddy Atlas stated that those are one of the best jabs he sees thrown by fighters, specially in this last JJ's fight, in terms of technique movement (not power ofc), since he said the accuracy is key, so it hits home almost always, and he compared that to even one of the best jabs seen on pro boxing as well.

Plus, Miocic's first second punches thrown were pretty quick and sharp... Firstly he got punched by JJ in the face, who rushed at him faking a take down, then (looking at really slow motion) JJ attempted to get ahold of Miocic's legs, though once receiving the punch, Miocic had already, given a step behind to avoid that fainted takedown, stopped JJ's arm by changing his movement, he even pushes JJ's head slightly so JJ can not get a take down chance and punches JJ (who was still not fully stood up) in the face with a straight right hand, fresh shot from each other, but Miocic was a right hand that was perfectly timed and landed when JJ wasn't in defense position and not expecting it fully.

JJ's following hits were very quick and accurate kicks, which hurt a lot considering JJ got better at kicking, as he trained with a kicking legend whose name I forgot and with that really famous French coach that had trained GSP once I think, who both said JJ's mastery of the kicks, and its huge precision are extraordinary.

Then the takedowns and the 50 elbows landed would ofc slow Miocic down a lot... Even then, Miocic made slow shots dangerous because he feinted them well enough... Putting in real slow motion, it's possible to see that the feints were very well planned as the intended hands were already connecting, though JJ was just blocking pretty much all of them, since, well, the feints couldn't be as quick as a fresh Stipe. But JJ kept kicking the body, kicked the inside leg more than once, and threw quick jabs to control the stances he'd be in. In one of his jabs tho, in the middle of the 3rd round, it looks like he landed a jab-finger, making it a jab but with a finger connecting in a that he wanted, so he could follow with the right hand (fair? Eh...)

It was pretty technical, man...

 

[Luffy]

UFC paid a retired dude to put over their star.

If so, you're assuming they want to build the star quality in Jon Jones... If that's so, why'd the UFC want JJ vs Aspinall badly if they intent is to market JJ as going with no losses? Come on now.

 

[sdpdude9]

Nah, Stipe’s performance confirmed why the fight was shit on beforehand. He looked underwater and rusty.