News Mir picks Jones but says he will have a problem with speed

[AstralPanda]

The Jon that fought Stipe is getting slept in the first round if he fights Tom. Is he going to get better after another year off? I doubt it.

Jones tends to fight at the speed and within the range of his opponent, playing just on the edge. Against Stipe, you can get away with a lot more.

There would be a lot more caution against. Tom. He also didn't need to stand with Stipe, couldve just continued to dominate him on the ground, but chose to stand.

Hes not just going to stand with Tom and allow him to implement his game while fresh, he would take him down, tire him out and elbow his face for a while. Then Tom's striking would be tested with all that lactic acid buildup, while also worrying about the threat of the takedown.

Jon was hit a few times against Stipe, but dodged or slipped 90% of his punches. Even if his reflexes are a bit slower, he's still very hard to hit cleanly. The idea that anyone is just going to stop him so easily, when he's still one of the best defensive fighters in the sport is just bad analysis. Tom could do it, but there's a lot of walls to get past. Kicking range, oblique kicks, arm length as a way to control frames, level changes into takedowns.

I think the real question is can Tom defend Jon's wrestling. If the answer is no, then it's he's gonna have a hard time getting this mythical easy first round knockout.

 

[froggyluv]

Lololol. Only sherdoggers believe this. He's dqd from GOAT conversations.

....and GSP



*GSP just being Humble incoming

 

[TheTickG]

--Interesting that Mir rates wrestling over BJJ--


Mir said, “I would bet on Jon. I think Tom has quick hands, which gives him a better chance than most. I think Tom might have a better chance than anybody to beat Jon right now in the UFC. But that being said, I think Jon wins the fight just because of his wrestling. I think he puts Tom on his back and can nullify his jiu-jitsu from being in top position with his elbows and control.”

Mir also acknowledged Aspinall’s skills, noting that the Englishman has a good shot at victory. He pointed out that “Jones does have an issue with speed,” highlighting his vulnerabilities when it comes to agility, referencing his struggles in the first round against Lyoto Machida way back in 2011. Despite Jones winning that fight, Mir said Jones had a tough time due to Machida’s speed, describing it as a “chess match” rather than a “slugfest.”

“Jon Does Have an Issue…” – UFC Heavyweight Legend Lays Out Tom Aspinall’s Only Shot at Beating Jon Jones

A former UFC champion has just weighed in on the matter of Jon Jones vs. Tom Aspinall. Let's see what the veteran had to say!

www.essentiallysports.com

Jones' biggest weakness has always been following the rules. As long as those aren't enforced, he should have no problem.

 

[Captain Herb]

Tom was recently trying to punch with the back of his hands. The guy just is mostly great white hype.

I guess it's working?

 

[SuperAlly]

Tom was recently trying to punch with the back of his hands. The guy just is mostly great white hype.

Casual

 

[SuperAlly]

Problem is, almost everyone on the goat list used as well.

It's just a fantasy where people believe Jones is some odd man out, in an otherwise clean spirt.

The reality is most of our favorite fighters are using. Not just in mma, but looking at the greatest athletes in every sport from the NFL to football to the NBA, all the best are on PED's

If we have that much of a problem with cheating, then we may need to boycott sports in general.

And given that, you can't just take PEDs and become the most skilled and talented fighter that has ever lived. It doesn't work like that. In a sport full of guys on the sauce, there's only one Jon jones.

Again with this retarded shit

51% plus of athletes are not doping

You are a retard if you believe this and or want to invent this because you are in love with a particular athlete who cheated

Some clown tried to use Icarus as proof, and then when you look at it, not even they claimed the majority if athletes cheat

This is akin to the contards trying to pretend rape is ok

 

[nostradumbass]

Has Jon ever even been stunned by a punch?

 

[SuperAlly]

not a jones fan, but tom just does not get jon hyped to fight.
got to be excited to want to throw down.

Not hyped

Terrified though. Sure.

 

[SuperAlly]

Hes not just going to stand with Tom and allow him to implement his game while fresh, he would take him down, tire him out and elbow his face for a while. Then Tom's striking would be tested with all that lactic acid buildup, while also worrying about the threat of the takedown.

Just as Tom is not merely gonna allow Jon to implement his favoured game plan

We should find out who can win that battle of wills

Hope they're both willing. One definitely is

 

[Mike]

Problem is, almost everyone on the goat list used as well.

It's just a fantasy where people believe Jones is some odd man out, in an otherwise clean spirt.

The reality is most of our favorite fighters are using. Not just in mma, but looking at the greatest athletes in every sport from the NFL to football to the NBA, all the best are on PED's

If we have that much of a problem with cheating, then we may need to boycott sports in general.

And given that, you can't just take PEDs and become the most skilled and talented fighter that has ever lived. It doesn't work like that. In a sport full of guys on the sauce, there's only one Jon jones.

Everyone on the goat list didn’t pop multiple times while also having the most fouls of any fighter ever. This shit where you guys try to say everyone is guilty just ain’t how real life works. In the real world, the people that got caught are guilty. Point blank. You can’t slander all the guys that passed every test by saying sure they passed but were just gonna say they were users too without proof. Lots more guys are using than get caught I’m sure, but you don’t get to jump from that to claiming everyone is using.

As far as the steroids don’t help you be great thing, another nonstarter. If they didn’t help and help a LOT, they wouldn’t be used so heavily in sports despite the risks. They aren’t magic but they quite obviously help a great deal. More strength and confidence, more aggression. Faster recovery so you can train much more, without as much risk of injury. The ability to more rapidly improve strength and conditioning and your overall game, because you can put in more reps.

Those are not small advantages versus a clean athlete. Those are enormous advantages. And Jones fanes tend to overlook it isn’t JUST the peds. He wouldn’t receive anywhere near as much criticism if he didn’t constantly commit fouls as well. It’s the combination. He’s literally the biggest cheater in mma history. No other fighter has had as many controversies about cheating as he has.

 

[AstralPanda]

Again with this retarded shit

51% plus of athletes are not doping

You are a retard if you believe this and or want to invent this because you are in love with a particular athlete who cheated

Some clown tried to use Icarus as proof, and then when you look at it, not even they claimed the majority if athletes cheat

This is akin to the contards trying to pr rape is.you

I never said icarus was my only source. You simply put words in my mouth. I actually made a huge variety of references and asked you deeper questions, asked you to show your work.

You simply ignored a huge portion of my posts with your extreme bias and selective listening, while also refusing to answer any of the questions I asked.

I asked you to provide stats involving the NFL, NBA, football, NHL, Golf and other top sports

Including the variation of PED use depending on the country. Inconsideration of the fact that countries like China and Russia have well known doping programs.

You used your own limited, anecdotal, subjective experiences in an absolute way, but ignored the bigger picture and huge vadiation in doping across all sports, countries, and especially the variation between the lowest to highest levels.

There's a lot of information you're leaving out, but speaking as if you had the answers.

How about this, let's look at the NFL. Prove to me that the vast majority of American football players aren't on the sauce. How about the NBA?

Specifically the best in the leagues. Surely a supposed expert such as yourself can provide evidence that the vast majority aren't using that doesn't draw from your own limited pool of supposed expertise.

 

[Elegant]

Why the fuck would a guy who is used to evading/dealing with strikes from smaller more agile men in the weight class below have issues dealing with Aspinall's speed?

You guys are trying to latch on to anything you can to feel like Aspinall stands any chance to the point of making stuff up lol

Aspinall has size and youth over Jon, absolutely nothing else

 

[Mike]

Nice take. The old champ needs to provide the fight where they either go out on top or pass the torch. It's a fighting/boxing tradition and it should always happen. If Jones doesn't make this happen he's a pussy and should always be remembered as one.

No they absolutely do not lol. This ain’t pro wrestling. That being said he needs to give up the belt if he won’t fight the contenders.

 

[Captain Herb]

No they absolutely do not lol. This ain’t pro wrestling. That being said he needs to give up the belt if he won’t fight the contenders.

The old man vs the young lion is absolutely a boxing tradition. It's an archtype, it's an essential part of the game, it's how the sport renews itself and continues into the next generation. Jones is trying to thwart that, he's trying to take his ball and go home, and he should be called a pussy for doing it.

 

[SuperAlly]

I never said icarus was my only source. You simply put words in my mouth. I actually made a huge variety of references and asked you deeper questions, asked you to show your work.

You simply ignored a huge portion of my posts with your extreme bias and selective listening, while also refusing to answer any of the questions I asked.

I asked you to provide stats involving the NFL, NBA, football, NHL, Golf and other top sports

Including the variation of PED use depending on the country. Inconsideration of the fact that countries like China and Russia have well known doping programs.

You used your own limited, anecdotal, subjective experiences in an absolute way, but ignored the bigger picture and huge vadiation in doping across all sports, countries, and especially the variation between the lowest to highest levels.

There's a lot of information you're leaving out, but speaking as if you had the answers.

How about this, let's look at the NFL. Prove to me that the vast majority of American football players aren't on the sauce. How about the NBA?

Specifically the best in the leagues. Surely a supposed expert such as yourself can provide evidence that the vast majority aren't using that doesn't draw from your own limited pool of supposed expertise.

Whether it was your only source is irrelevant

It was a source you used to claim the majority of athletes cheat

They claim it is a minority (I.e. less than 50%)

Don't go writing me walls of text that start off on a faulty premise. You are the one lying and being bad faith here.

I didn't even remember it was you who cited a source (icarus) that actually contradicts your argument (the majority aren't doping)

And despite you being told this already, you still run with this lie.

You are married to this lie and won't change it even when objective facts refute it

 

[AstralPanda]

Everyone on the goat list didn’t pop multiple times while also having the most fouls of any fighter ever. This shit where you guys try to say everyone is guilty just ain’t how real life works. In the real world, the people that got caught are guilty. Point blank. You can’t slander all the guys that passed every test by saying sure they passed but were just gonna say they were users too without proof. Lots more guys are using than get caught I’m sure, but you don’t get to jump from that to claiming everyone is using.

As far as the steroids don’t help you be great thing, another nonstarter. If they didn’t help and help a LOT, they wouldn’t be used so heavily in sports despite the risks. They aren’t magic but they quite obviously help a great deal. More strength and confidence, more aggression. Faster recovery so you can train much more, without as much risk of injury. The ability to more rapidly improve strength and conditioning and your overall game, because you can put in more reps.

Those are not small advantages versus a clean athlete. Those are enormous advantages. And Jones fanes tend to overlook it isn’t JUST the peds. He wouldn’t receive anywhere near as much criticism if he didn’t constantly commit fouls as well. It’s the combination. He’s literally the biggest cheater in mma history. No other fighter has had as many controversies about cheating as he has.

Everyone on the goat list didn’t pop multiple times while also having the most fouls of any fighter ever. This shit where you guys try to say everyone is guilty just ain’t how real life works. In the real world, the people that got caught are guilty. Point blank. You can’t slander all the guys that passed every test by saying sure they passed but were just gonna say they were users too without proof. Lots more guys are using than get caught I’m sure, but you don’t get to jump from that to claiming everyone is using.

As far as the steroids don’t help you be great thing, another nonstarter. If they didn’t help and help a LOT, they wouldn’t be used so heavily in sports despite the risks. They aren’t magic but they quite obviously help a great deal. More strength and confidence, more aggression. Faster recovery so you can train much more, without as much risk of injury. The ability to more rapidly improve strength and conditioning and your overall game, because you can put in more reps.

Those are not small advantages versus a clean athlete. Those are enormous advantages. And Jones fanes tend to overlook it isn’t JUST the peds. He wouldn’t receive anywhere near as much criticism if he didn’t constantly commit fouls as well. It’s the combination. He’s literally the biggest cheater in mma history. No other fighter has had as many controversies about cheating as he has.

Jones didn't even get caught with what he was actually using, something designer and undetectable, which was more than likely contaminated turinabol m3 metabolite.

He passed a polygraph that he didn't ingest it. Turinabol isn't something anyone can really take under usada and get away with.

Most of these guys aren't getting caught and they stay ahead of the testing.

Not everyone is using, but the best guys who can afford to stay ahead of the testing definitely are, which is a huge percentage of them. Which extends to all the top major sports leagues where money is flowing.

Focusing only on who tests positive is to ignore the larger reality of sports.

 

[Mike]

The eternal jones debate is interesting philosophically because it really shows the difference in perspectives on morality and competition. You have the camp that says you should follow the rules and compete fairly, no matter what anyone else is doing.

And then you have the Only Results Matter group. To this group, rules and regulations and the concept of honor etc doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is victory, any way possible.

These are two wholly irreconcilable viewpoints, and that’s why this debate will never end.

 

[AstralPanda]

Whether it was your only source is irrelevant

It was a source you used to claim the majority of athletes cheat

They claim it is a minority (I.e. less than 50%)

Don't go writing me walls of text that start off on a faulty premise. You are the one lying and being bad faith here.

I didn't even remember it was you who cited a source (icarus) that actually contradicts your argument (the majority aren't doping)

And despite you being told this already, you still run with this lie.

You are married to this lie and won't change it when objective facts refute it

There is a huge amount of data you're ignoring, which shows how seriously you can be taken.

The NFL, NBA, Football, Golf, NHL, Boxing, MMA

All of these sports have a huge variation of PED usage, with no one size fits all.

The Olympics is another animal entirely, as many aren't exactly making big money during their quest to medal. We do know that there is country sponsored doping in China, Russia and other countries which is extremely rampant and would represent the vast majority.

You referenced your own subjective, anecdotal experience which realistically represents less than 1% of the overall data, without taking into account the extreme variation between amateur and pro sports, the differences between countries, etc.

icarus was one of many things I referenced. You simply have very poor reading comprehension and attacked icarus as if it was the only point I made or the only question I asked you to elaborate upon with your supposed expertise.

 

[Mike]

Jones didn't even get caught with what he was actually using, something designer and undetectable, which was more than likely contaminated turinabol m3 metabolite.

He passed a polygraph that he didn't ingest it. Turinabol isn't something anyone can really take under usada and get away with.

Most of these guys aren't getting caught and they stay ahead of the testing.

Not everyone is using, but the best guys who can afford to stay ahead of the testing definitely are, which is a huge percentage of them. Which extends to all the top major sports leagues where money is flowing.

Focusing only on who tests positive is to ignore the larger reality of sports.

I don’t care about a sociopath passing a poly lmao. Like even a little. He’s popped for like three different banned substances, but yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s also on other stuff he didn’t pop for. The problem with the “it’s everyone” argument is everyone else isn’t popping this much while also having so many blatant fouls. Why is that? Is he dumber than everyone else? Using more than everyone else? I don’t know I’m not Victor Conte. What I do know is no matter what we’re talking about, you can’t constantly egregiously fuck up in ways that others don’t and then say it’s all equal. It’s not equal because he’s getting caught cheating more than anyone else.


Like literally nobody has fought as dirty as Jon in mma and it’s not close either. He’s taken guys like Barnett that used to be seen as this ultimate cheater and just completely surpassed him. That’s why the MAJORITY on here don’t see him as goat. Even though most of us watched his entire career and know how good he is. It’s all the cheating. Not some cheating, not a cheating scandal. More blatant obvious cheating than any fighter in the history of the sport and it’s not speculation like you guys use for other fighters. Jones was actually caught red handed.

 

[AstralPanda]

The eternal jones debate is interesting philosophically because it really shows the difference in perspectives on morality and competition. You have the camp that says you should follow the rules and compete fairly, no matter what anyone else is doing.

And then you have the Only Results Matter group. To this group, rules and regulations and the concept of honor etc doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is victory, any way possible.

These are two wholly irreconcilable viewpoints, and that’s why this debate will never end.

I used to be a zealot for a clean sport.

But, I think the reality is that the very best in all of these professional sports where millions are on the line are using.

It's not as if honor doesn't matter, I used to argue that tripe for years.

But, at some point we simply have to acknowledge the reality that these aren't clean sports and the vast majority of our favorite athletes are using.

Anything else is a fantasy world that people choose to live in.