Wrestlers Dominating the UFC...

[tenniswhiz]

Who beat Severn before they started changing the rules to accommodate wrestlers? It was a little bitty guy, if I remember correctly. A couple of rule changes later and that little bitty guy would never even stand a chance.

Beat him or not, Severn was still one of the best guys from that era.

And I can’t believe you didn’t mention how impressive Mark Kerr’s physique looks in that picture.

 

[TrueFightFan]

Severn was humping him for 15 min before getting the triangle slapped on , what could have been different ?

It was an early stage in MMA, so the rule changes were coming. 5 Minute rounds, points for top control and take downs would make that fight a "walk in the park" for Severn if that fight were played back by today's rules.

 

[TrueFightFan]

Beat him or not, Severe was still one of the best guys from that era.

And I can’t believe you didn’t mention how impressive Mark Kerr’s physique looks in that picture.

Severn is a true pioneer but the rules did not favor wrestlers, back then. Severn would have had a field day with today's rules.

As for Kerr, I am not gay.

 

[Rovert]

It was an early stage in MMA, so the rule changes were coming. 5 Minute rounds, points for top control and take downs would make that fight a "walk in the park" for Severn if that fight were played back by today's rules.

Yea todays scoring Royce just got humped 30-27

 

[TrueFightFan]

Yea todays scoring Royce just got humped 30-27

Hell, that might have been one of the first 10-4 rounds we have ever seen. Imagine a 30-12 scorecard.

 

[tenniswhiz]

Yea todays scoring Royce just got humped 30-27

And “dominated”.
And “Severn was winning every moment of that fight”.
And “Severn is simply the better fighter”.
And “Royce showed that he had absolutely nothing for Severn”.

I see your point.

 

[dembones22]

If they allowed knees on the ground, it would even the playing field a bit for strikers.

Wrong. Not alowing knees on the ground is taking a weapon away from wrestlers by using the snap down. But it could be used against them as well of course.






TEAM SNAP DOWN CHEKING IN !!

 

[dembones22]

Wrestlers did end some fights with knees as highlighted with Coleman/Goes but actually Kerr got finished with them by Igor and Herring.

The blocked desperation takedown especially becomes much more dangerous when someone can open up with knees.

Yes. You have to properly set up your shots. If your just diving in with a telegraphed shot, Yes you could be caught in the same position by a fighter with a decent sprawl. Best to shoot when your opponent is committing to strikes or by catching a kick.




.

 

[Leoooo]

Wrestling is the best martial arts, we can stop doing MMA fights.

It’s the best MA when rules are heavily favored against wrestlers, yes.

Look at pride. No cage and ground strikes/stomps = wrestlers not as dominant and more exciting fights

 

[Leoooo]

I understand your point but we just can’t have guys on the ground getting their skulls caved in by knees.

But it’s okay they get their skulls caved in by elbows?
Or flying knees. Look at Cyborg Santos. He literally had his skull caved in by a knee.

 

[illegalnature]

I feel like fighters just need to evolve their skills from off their back/in the guard.

I dont see people laying on Werdum for 3-5 rnds or maia or Jacare. Ofcourse those are the best of the best and even somebody with a great bjj guard like Nick Diaz can be layed on by someone like GSP.

Khabib and DC and GSP will always be good holding people down while avoiding subs but edson and plenty others could avoid all this if their bjj off their back or just guard skills improved.

 

[Nightwish]

It is a fact that unified rules are a shame to combat sports.

 

[tenniswhiz]

It is a fact that unified rules are a shame to combat sports.

It had to get sanctioned by people who didn’t understand it.
Certain compromises had to be reached.

A shame though, that 12-6 elbows get you DQ’d, but eyepokes can be effective for winning fights against elite competition.

 

[MikeMcMann]

First of all, I wrestled starting in middle school and wrestled all the way through college. It was D3, so not of the highest level, but still pretty fucking high. No need to be a dick. You sound like one of the blue belts in BJJ who got #rekt by a bunch of wrestlers over the years on their first day in class.

lol. So yo uare the perfect Al Bundy example. Living some perceived glory (that was not there) years later.

Now for the arguement, 6 of the current champs right now have wrestling backgrounds, almost all of the top 3 in each division are former wrestlers, and historically most of the champs in UFC history have a wrestling base, and by that I mean the first marital art they learned was wrestling. I'm not going to take the time to go and pull up some numbers for you, you can do that your self, but if you just take the time and remember some of the best fighters in history they likely started out wrestling.

That means nothing without an appropriate sample base.

If I started a new sport tomorrow and the first athletes to flock to it where 100 guys from the top college ranks who did not make the NFL cut and 5 guys from college basketball and 2 guys from college wrestling you WOULD expect the football guys to dominate. That would not mean football was the best base.

Do you understand why?

As far as dictating where the fight goes, you can cherry pick, but generally speaking wrestling helps you dictate the level of the fight, ie. Dillishaw vs Lineker, Cormier vs Hendo, Jones vs Bonnar, Couture vs Sylvia, Hughes vs Sherk, Stipe vs Ngannou.
The list goes on.

lol. I can provide lists to and i already pointed out with the reasoning above why that is not instructive.

What you are doing is seeing the results of the top wrestlers (and ignoring what I say above) and saying see, that works, therefore it is dominant. You are ignoring that it could be a factor of more TOP wrestlers flocking to MMA and therefore percentage wise there SHOULD have more success. That DOES NOT mean there aspects are better however. That is FLAWED logic. See my football example above. Just because they would dominate that sport does not mean the skill base they brought was better. It means they had MORE numbers.

As far as wrestlers learning other martial arts at a faster rate, I have nothing quantifiable for you, however, you ask just about ANY BJJ school coaches and they will almost universally tell you that wrestlers are the most adaptable and kinesthetically aware.

Not buying your sample. I see a tiny number of top strikers, most not even in their prime coming into the sport and by simply learning tdd and some rudimentary sub defense rising to the top ranks despite 10 or 100 times more top wrestlers entering and being in the pool. Go back to Mo Smith, Bas and so many others who faced dominant stud wrestlers.

Wrestling is not something that cannot be adapted to and if you imagined 10 or 100 times more Mo Smith or Bas type top strikers all entering in their prime as the top wrestlers did then the sport would look much different.

That's why we have guys like Couture and DC getting into the sport super late into their lives and still being able to be highly competitive.

No that is because MMA is still a young sport. It is why Costco Tire Changers who are brawlers with heavy hands and so many like them with no history of high level sport success can start training MMA and within a few short years be competing at the top of the sport.

[
TLDR:
You are butthurt because you likely started out as a striker or as a BJJ guy, which is great, but don't like the fact that your sport isn't the best starting base for MMA. You are wrong, but that's cool. Use the salt on your fries.

The only one wrong is you. FACTUALLY wrong as I have shown.

 

[JustBleed69]

lol. So yo uare the perfect Al Bundy example. Living some perceived glory (that was not there) years later.




That means nothing without an appropriate sample base.

If I started a new sport tomorrow and the first athletes to flock to it where 100 guys from the top college ranks who did not make the NFL cut and 5 guys from college basketball and 2 guys from college wrestling you WOULD expect the football guys to dominate. That would not mean football was the best base.

Do you understand why?



lol. I can provide lists to and i already pointed out with the reasoning above why that is not instructive.

What you are doing is seeing the results of the top wreslters (and ignoring what I say above) and saying see, that works, therefore it is dominant. You are ignroing that it could a facotr of more TOP wrestlers flocking to MMA and therefore percentage wise there SHOULD have more success. That DOES NOT mean there aspects are better however. That is FLAWED logic. See my football example above. Just becuase they would dominate that sport does not mean the skill base they brought was better. It means they had MORE numbers.



Not buying your sample. I see a tiny number of top strikers, most not even in their prime coming into the sport and by simply learning tdd and some rudimentary sub defense rising to the top ranks despite 10 or 100 times more top wrestlers entering and being in the pool. Go back to Mo Smith, Bas and so many others who faced dominant stud wrestlers.

Wrestling is not something that cannot be adapted to and if you imagined 10 or 100 times more Mo Smith or Bas type top strikers all entering in their prime as the top wrestlers did then the sport would look much different.

No that is because MMA is still a young sport. It is why Costco Tire Changers who are brawlers with heavy hands and so many like them with no history of high level sport success can start training MMA and within a few short years be competing at the top of the sport.


The only one wrong is you. FACTUALLY wrong as I have shown.

You are literally just repeating yourself and providing no counter arguments whatsoever.
You have a large and evident bias and are just being a dick because you don't understand how to debate or argue.
"Don't understand how to argue, let me just use insults that aren't relevant or fully coherent. Hopefully I can just repeat myself and everyone will like my comment"

Fuck off dude.
You're making yourself look like a twat lol.


PS:
Nobody knows who the fuck Al Bundy is.

 

[MikeMcMann]

You are literally just repeating yourself and providing no counter arguments whatsoever.
You have a large and evident bias and are just being a dick because you don't understand how to debate or argue.
"Don't understand how to argue, let me just use insults that aren't relevant or fully coherent. Hopefully I can just repeat myself and everyone will like my comment"

Fuck off dude.
You're making yourself look like a twat lol.


PS:
Nobody knows who the fuck Al Bundy is.

Haha.

You must be a child for more reasons than one that you expose here.

First off I provided the ONLY evidence. You provided none. When you ignore the mass numbers of wrestlers and draw conclusion that is not evidence, it is jumping to conclusions.

It is fact that so many more wrestlers flocked into the sport than top strikers so d'uh seeing more wrestlers in the top ranks and having success would be obvious to anyone not dumb. But drawing conclusions that somehow that makes wrestling (or football per my prir example) better is just dumb.

So in conclusion, stop being dumb.

 

[JustBleed69]

Haha.

You must be a child for more reasons than one that you expose here.

First off I provided the ONLY evidence. You provided none. When you ignore the mass numbers of wrestlers and draw conclusion that is not evidence, it is jumping to conclusions.

It is fact that so many more wrestlers flocked into the sport than top strikers so d'uh seeing more wrestlers in the top ranks and having success would be obvious to anyone not dumb. But drawing conclusions that somehow that makes wrestling (or football per my prir example) better is just dumb.

So in conclusion, stop being dumb.

More wrestlers did not flock to the sport, once again, you're just repeating yourself. Did you miss the first 10 years of MMA?

You are cherry picking examples to fit your bias and ignoring the masses while not providing anything aside from anecdotal claims and silly insults.

 

[Kinniku]

I understand your point but we just can’t have guys on the ground getting their skulls caved in by knees.

Why not? Nobody died in Pride.

 

[Jon's Drug Dealer]

Wrestling is the best martial arts, we can stop doing MMA fights.

Non-MMA wrestling is basically gay porn, though.

 

[MikeMcMann]

More wrestlers did not flock to the sport, once again, you're just repeating yourself. Did you miss the first 10 years of MMA?

You are cherry picking examples to fit your bias and ignoring the masses while not providing anything aside from anecdotal claims and silly insults.

Haha WTF?

No one denies that masses of wrestlers flocked into MMA now that they had a professional paying sport to participate in. We have threads created listing just the top Division A wrestlers and the list is massive. Heck there was a.thread on the top wrestlers who failed at MMA with the best pedigree and that list was huge.

Obviously with you not knowing who Al Bundy is you are likely a kid and that means you know nothing about the origins of MMA so don't pretend.

We still have not had any real meaningful import of top guys from the striking arts into MMA but the few guys that have come, along with heavy handed tire changers show that learning and defending a wrestling base is not any thing tougher than other aspects of MMA.