International Trump forced Israel to negotiate with Hamas

[Siver!]

I learned that when I visited my friends in 1998 in Bethlehem. Back then they only posted Palestinians throwing rocks. I was there for 2 weeks for my friend's sister's wedding. They cut our water supply off for a week due to the political nonsense and we had to rinse our heads with bottled water and under our armpits and genitals. It taught me a valuable lesson to never trust the media on pretty much anything. There will always be an angle

Yeah, everyone has an angle.

Less often it's clear and blatant the better.

 

[Cajun]

Of course, the collapse of that agreement was not purely up to the US. But do you not think it's a bad thing that Trump sanctioned Israel pulling out of an agreement that by and large was holding and moving along?

It's a bizarre argument to claim Trump deserves laurels for this current ceasefire while ignoring that it came after almost a year of fumbling and hurting the chances of a ceasefire.

My opinion is that Hamas is a terrorist organization. And look I speak Arabic and I'm totally Pro Palestinian even though I have some Jewish friends. I still don't know that this is going to work because Hamas cannot remain in power after what happened. How this is going to play out is still yet to be seen

 

[avenue94]

My opinion is that Hamas is a terrorist organization. And look I speak Arabic and I'm totally Pro Palestinian even though I have some Jewish friends. I still don't know that this is going to work because Hamas cannot remain in power after what happened. How this is going to play out is still yet to be seen

You're still ducking the question, why is that? You're not required to answer, but it's odd that you are pretty open to discussing the subject...except that part (what happened to that ceasefire).

And yes, Hamas is a terrorist group, among other things. But if there's any lesson to learn from the many, mostly failed, occupations we've seen in the past century, is don't leave a power vacuum and don't assume that the new guy in charge will be less extreme or more cooperative or competent than the assholes you just tossed out.

 

[Cajun]

You're still ducking the question, why is that? You're not required to answer, but it's odd that you are pretty open to discussing the subject...except that part (what happened to that ceasefire).

And yes, Hamas is a terrorist group, among other things. But if there's any lesson to learn from the many, mostly failed, occupations we've seen in the past century, is don't leave a power vacuum and don't assume that the new guy in charge will be less extreme or more cooperative or competent than the assholes you just tossed out.

I guess I need a refresher. I remember trump calling for it and there being a brief pause back in January. What part do you want me to look at? Not being obtuse. I've already said I would be down for the Palestinian Authority who already governs the West Bank to be in charge of Gaza until things are settled and they can do elections. People are already calling for elections in both the West Bank and Gaza when this was going on. But obviously you have to have some semblance of order before people can actually get out and vote. Outside of that maybe some of the Gulf States help maintain it. What is your picture of how it should go.

 

[Cajun]

Alright @avenue94 . Getting off for a bit. If you have a plan post up. Will check later or in the morning.

 

[avenue94]

I guess I need a refresher. I remember trump calling for it and there being a brief pause back in January. What part do you want me to look at? Not being obtuse. I've already said I would be down for the Palestinian Authority who already governs the West Bank to be in charge of Gaza until things are settled and they can do elections. People are already calling for elections in both the West Bank and Gaza when this was going on. But obviously you have to have some semblance of order before people can actually get out and vote. Outside of that maybe some of the Gulf States help maintain it. What is your picture of how it should go.

Hamas and Israel agreed to a 3 phase deal with US backing (Trump and Biden). The deal made it through the first phase mostly successfully (there was the normal fuckery that goes on from both sides with trying to bend the rules and gain an edge).

When it came time to transition to the second phase, Israel reneged and tried to submit a new US proposal from Trump/Witkoff, and Hamas refused and wanted the deal to stick to the original framework. Then Israel opened up mass hostilities again and shut down aid completely.

Here are two sources with different biases talking about it.

Hamas rejects Israel’s ‘formulation’ to extend phase one of Gaza ceasefire

Uncertainty in Gaza as Palestinian group says no ongoing talks for second phase even as first phase expires on Saturday.

www.aljazeera.com

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-endorses-us-plan-to-extend-ceasefire-claims-hamas-refusing-warns-war-can-restart/

That negotiations failed at this juncture is disproportionately important because 2025 is where food security really went down the shitter in Gaza and you got famine. That's why I've been consistent in saying while this ceasefire is a positive development, Trump also utterly fucked the original one from earlier this year and contributed to so much more death and misery.

 

[HereticBD]

My opinion is that Hamas is a terrorist organization. And look I speak Arabic and I'm totally Pro Palestinian even though I have some Jewish friends. I still don't know that this is going to work because Hamas cannot remain in power after what happened. How this is going to play out is still yet to be seen

I think the locals are now a bit more emboldened to rise up against them, now that they have next to no support. That's how Hamas really ends. The walls have officially closed in. Only thing that would fuck it up, is Israel getting jumpy. Dictatorships end when the dictators lose all their friends, and they have nowhere to run. That's where Hamas is right now. Knives at their throats, wherever they turn. Their big sponsors are done with them. The smart ones will throw down their sashes and turn on the core. Survival of the fittest now.

 

[SuperAlly]

THIS all day long. Will the Israelis stop treating the Palestinians like trash. No. The answer is no. Nothing will change.

Will the western left stop being bigotrd, xenophobic and antisemitic. The answer is no. Nothing will change. Sadly.

 

[SuperAlly]

There is always some hope but I think it will take a lot of pressure. You know one thing that people don't think about is Israelis and Palestinians are not totally isolated from each other. They operate in and around each other constantly in jerusalem. There are lots of Palestinians that reside in Jerusalem. Hopefully all of the economic ties will open up some things between israelis-palestinians the surrounding countries in the United States

Bit of cognitive dissonance here.

So Palestinians could operate freely and safely in Israel. Could Israelis do that anywhere with their neighbours

 

[SuperAlly]

The Arab States are what made this happen

Had to isolate Hamas as much as possible

And the fucking retards still protesting on campuses don't count.

Soooo... WTF is Greta going to do next? She gotta keep this grift feed

If you look closely you can see avenue and crazy source in the photo on the right

Nice ridiculous strawman from avenue a couple of pages back, some might describe such absurd and dishonest debate as shit posting

 

[SuperAlly]

There are plenty of US media giving credit for the ceasefire.

I think part of the issue here is that a lot of folks are acting like this was the first chance the US had to pressure Israel for a ceasefire and have completely memory holed the Winter one. Maybe you just don't want to answer, but your lack of answer or visible awareness of the winter deal seems to me an example of this.

Your biases here are ridiculous here

You get an absolute hard on about "first chance" and slip it into multiple arguments out of nowhere. No one is saying that.

You blame Trump solely for the previous one not ending.

You talk only of pressuring Israel, not the neanderthal terrorist scum who kicked this round of intensifies warring off with hostage taking and keeping them for 2 years

You are a ridiculous cartoon of a real person with disgusting prejudice and hatred. You are a terrible human being inside.

 

[SuperAlly]

Trump is currently getting a ton of approval from all sides.

It doesn't mean there are no caveats, but I personally am delighted he's given us what appears to be an ending point.

He still has to manage an extremist government out of a conflict they'll rekindle at the drop of a hat, but it looks like he might be able to make it happen.

The US admin has done their job in steering Netanyahu's trash administration into a corner. Bibi is going to have to commit political suicide by failing all his nonsensical objectives, losing the support of terrorists like Smotrich and Ben Gvir, and hopefully Israel proves it's a valid and viable partner by clearing the decks of murderous, land-grabbing assholes.

And here is another equally demented racist framing this the same way with all the vitriol and pejorative terms saved for 1 side

Truth is there is one major party to blame for no ceasefire. The one holding the hostages. The fact a ceasefire is agreed now in return for hostages shows this to be an undeniable fact. Hamas are 100% to blame for no ceasefire, they were the only onex who had it 100% in their hands to do what was required. But they are evil terrorist scum, so....

 

[SuperAlly]

Yeah, everyone has an angle.

Less often it's clear and blatant the better.

Except the BBC apparently

 

[SuperAlly]

You're still ducking the question, why is that? You're not required to answer, but it's odd that you are pretty open to discussing the subject...except that part (what happened to that ceasefire).

And yes, Hamas is a terrorist group, among other things. But if there's any lesson to learn from the many, mostly failed, occupations we've seen in the past century, is don't leave a power vacuum and don't assume that the new guy in charge will be less extreme or more cooperative or competent than the assholes you just tossed out.

Its very weird you are so obsessed about that

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Seems like it would be Trump's biggest achievement if it holds. Hopefully it does. Good stuff.

 

[ShadowRun]

 

[SandisLL]

Will the western left stop being bigotrd, xenophobic and antisemitic. The answer is no. Nothing will change. Sadly.

You are absolutely idiotic.

Western far right and also reps always had supported Israel more than even according to you bad dems you living in internet and eating benefits are yelling about.
Cos you are living on benefits and it is your life.
Trump administration had supplied Israel more weapons than bad Biden.
Idiotic left west had supplied Egypt more than Ukr.


For you empty yelling is best you are capable for a living .

 

[Confucamus]

Holy crap he really did it. The remaining living hostages are really home. I was holding my breath because Trump said they'd be home Monday but so many things could have gotten in the way of that. But wow. The relief for those families must be unbelievable.

 

[SandisLL]

Holy crap he really did it. The remaining living hostages are really home. I was holding my breath because Trump said they'd be home Monday but so many things could have gotten in the way of that. But wow. The relief for those families must be unbelievable.

From one point I might get why.
Trump administration had supplied Israel remaining batches of bunker boosting guided aviation bombs. 2000 bombs.
Biden supplied 1000 bombs so for Israel Trump pragmatically is de facto better.
Cos mathematical reasons of course.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Now that the hostages are back, has Israel nuked Gaza yet?