The REAL TRUTH from a Poatan Fan

[drphil]

I know I'll catch hate for this but I wasn't overly impressed with anks performance and surprised how well poatan dealt with the takedowns.

With a few tweaks poatan could still get the win back frankly.
I say this ad someone who fully expected ank to ground and pound him to death btw.

 

[Safton]

It's a good hypothetical though. Size matters but Almeida is about the same size atleast, I would say Almeida is the best wrestler out of the 3.

He probably is.

I get it, it's MMA, but he also outgrappled Jan who is pretty tough to out wrestle. He's not Khabib level, but he seems to be the best wrestler at LHW. HW has Almeida and Jones, with Jones seemingly retired unless Aspinall fight comes, it's pretty much just Almeida. I wonder if they had Ank vs Blaydes/Almeida/Aspinall wrestling match like Khamzat/Hermansson who would be the favorite in odds.

Jan isn't hard to outwrestle, though. If anything his defensive grappling has been his Achilles' heel. Glover, Pat Cummins, Gustafsson, Corey Anderson... it's a recurring theme in his career.

205 is shallow in regards to grappling talent right now, so while Ank may indeed be the elite fighter with the best wrestling chops, it basically means he's the biggest minnow in the pond lol. There's a few others who are decent on the way up, but eh.

I think Aspinall is very good on the mat, we just need to see more of his grappling. Not sure how he'd do in a singlet.

 

[Söze Aldo]

I know I'll catch hate for this but I wasn't overly impressed with anks performance and surprised how well poatan dealt with the takedowns.

With a few tweaks poatan could still get the win back frankly.
I say this ad someone who fully expected ank to ground and pound him to death btw.

Nobody was, you have the majority opinion. He won fair and square, but dominating by wall and stall, is not a way to impress anyone.

 

[Sean Chowdhury]

I know I'll catch hate for this but I wasn't overly impressed with anks performance and surprised how well poatan dealt with the takedowns.

With a few tweaks poatan could still get the win back frankly.
I say this ad someone who fully expected ank to ground and pound him to death btw.

I was impressed with his striking but his wrestling was suprisingly bad for a combat sambo champ and someone who has resources like he has(russian olympic wrestlers and from dagestan)

 

[ThaiSexPills]

the point I have the issue with is the “he was given favorable matchups”.

No he wasn’t. He was fast tracked to a title shot for sure but he’s beaten more former champions than non champs. The only questionable matchup on his resume is Khalil who was #7 but he had just fought 3 months prior and wanted a fast turnaround.

He’s fought all the best guys at LHW and beaten all but one. It’s plausible he could avenge that one too

 

[Tweak896]

He probably is.



Jan isn't hard to outwrestle, though. If anything his defensive grappling has been his Achilles' heel. Glover, Pat Cummins, Gustafsson, Corey Anderson... it's a recurring theme in his career.

205 is shallow in regards to grappling talent right now, so while Ank may indeed be the elite fighter with the best wrestling chops, it basically means he's the biggest minnow in the pond lol. There's a few others who are decent on the way up, but eh.

I think Aspinall is very good on the mat, we just need to see more of his grappling. Not sure how he'd do in a singlet.

Jan has had a weird career, he looked to me like his wrestling improved over time, but yeah even Glover took him down. I think he mentioned an injury that basically ruined his night, might be the reason he's so hot and cold.


I like Aspinall, he's exciting as hell and it's very curious where he goes from here because whether Jones fight or not he looks like the future of the UFC HW division. However I've seen many people attribute things to him he may not have yet.

Whenever people don't know the level of wrestling of a fighter and refer to his size or strength instead that's a red flag. Not saying he has proved poor wrestling, but the UK has a reputation for guys who strike vs known for their wrestling. Aspinall probably has decent BJJ, but just skimming wikipedia before typing this, he never won a BJJ tournament. His dad is a BJJ coach, but I wouldn't expect anything Werdum/Mir/Nog level off his back. No one's taken him down and he's only stuffed 2 takedowns in UFC.

Time will tell, Aspinall will either collide with Jones or Almieda so we'll probably see his wrestling.

 

[ComfortablyNumb55]

I love Poatan, but I know what he is.

Ank even gave him an opportunity with a kickboxing fight and he was simply too slow and gunshy.

Will always support Poatan.

 

[Safton]

Jan has had a weird career, he looked to me like his wrestling improved over time, but yeah even Glover took him down. I think he mentioned an injury that basically ruined his night, might be the reason he's so hot and cold.


I like Aspinall, he's exciting as hell and it's very curious where he goes from here because whether Jones fight or not he looks like the future of the UFC HW division. However I've seen many people attribute things to him he may not have yet.

Whenever people don't know the level of wrestling of a fighter and refer to his size or strength instead that's a red flag. Not saying he has proved poor wrestling, but the UK has a reputation for guys who strike vs known for their wrestling. Aspinall probably has decent BJJ, but just skimming wikipedia before typing this, he never won a BJJ tournament. His dad is a BJJ coach, but I wouldn't expect anything Werdum/Mir/Nog level off his back. No one's taken him down and he's only stuffed 2 takedowns in UFC.

Time will tell, Aspinall will either collide with Jones or Almieda so we'll probably see his wrestling.

He grew up taking lessons in wrestling and training in BJJ under his father. More importantly, I'd argue that what little we've seen of his grappling has been quite good. I mean they're way he slipped that punch from Volkov, took him down, and immediately subbed him was slick. That was the same Volkov who made Tybura go 0 for 16 on his GD attempts around the same time.

I agree we need to see more to make any definitive judgment calls, but I don't have any problems calling him a good or dangerous grappler based on what we've already seen to this point relative to other HWs.

 

[Tweak896]

He grew up taking lessons in wrestling and training in BJJ under his father. More importantly, I'd argue that what little we've seen of his grappling has been quite good. I mean they're way he slipped that punch from Volkov, took him down, and immediately subbed him was slick. That was the same Volkov who made Tybura go 0 for 16 on his GD attempts around the same time.

I agree we need to see more to make any definitive judgment calls, but I don't have any problems calling him a good or dangerous grappler based on what we've already seen to this point relative to other HWs.

He's no different than most of the guys who mix strikes and takedowns, when he does go for takedowns. But you have to admit we haven't seen him locked in grappling with anyone really. 2 takedowns defended in round 1 by Spivac. I don't think he has none but that it isn't high level. Any specialist that doesn't get KO'd would probably have his way.

Maybe I'm wrong? We're all just speculating. Either way he'll collide with Jones or Almeida eventually and we'll get our answer. I'd be more confident if he had any background in wrestling.

 

[Safton]

Any specialist that doesn't get KO'd would probably have his way.

Based on what? I don't agree with this take, honestly. Defending takedowns against Spivak isn't nothing. Spivak is arguably one of the best grappling "purists" at Heavyweight alongside Almeida. This is the same guy who beat Lewis way more impressively than Almeida did and was also winning a lot of the grappling exchanges against Jailton himself in their fight. You could even argue that the momentum was actually in his favor until he made the mistake of a lazy get-up into the pocket against the quicker/more explosive man and thus got chinned.

Maybe I'm wrong? We're all just speculating. Either way he'll collide with Jones or Almeida eventually and we'll get our answer. I'd be more confident if he had any background in wrestling.

Like I said, Aspinall grew up training wrestling, just not in a formal club/school setting or competing in a singlet. Beyond that, a background in wrestling doesn't mean much these days. Almeida doesn't have a background in wrestling, either. Despite this he was able to outwrestle a guy in Blaydes who has more of a "background in wrestling" than he does. Physical attributes and your ability to apply your wrestling inside the cage is what matters. Jailton has a "background in boxing", would you pick him to beat Pavlovich in a striking match?

Mind you I'm intrigued by the idea of Aspinall fighting Jones and Almeida both and in particular I can't wait to see how his grappling stacks up (among other things that we need to see more of, like his gas tank), but personally I feel like you're not giving him enough credit in some areas just as much as others are way too quick to ascribe too much credit for things he hasn't proven inside the cage.

 

[Tweak896]

Based on what? I don't agree with this take, honestly. Defending takedowns against Spivak isn't nothing. Spivak is arguably one of the best grappling "purists" at Heavyweight alongside Almeida. This is the same guy who beat Lewis way more impressively than Almeida did and was also winning a lot of the grappling exchanges against Jailton himself in their fight. You could even argue that the momentum was actually in his favor until he made the mistake of a lazy get-up into the pocket against the quicker/more explosive man and thus got chinned.




Like I said, Aspinall grew up training wrestling, just not in a formal club/school setting or competing in a singlet. Beyond that, a background in wrestling doesn't mean much these days. Almeida doesn't have a background in wrestling, either. Despite this he was able to outwrestle a guy in Blaydes who has more of a "background in wrestling" than he does. Physical attributes and your ability to apply your wrestling inside the cage is what matters. Jailton has a "background in boxing", would you pick him to beat Pavlovich in a striking match?

Mind you I'm intrigued by the idea of Aspinall fighting Jones and Almeida both and in particular I can't wait to see how his grappling stacks up (among other things that we need to see more of, like his gas tank), but personally I feel like you're not giving him enough credit in some areas just as much as others are way too quick to ascribe too much credit for things he hasn't proven inside the cage.

I mean Spivac couldn't take Gane down 3 fights ago, everyone goes on about how he's a whitebelt. I'm talking about his wrestling only, and specifically in reference to Aspinall's body of work in the UFC when it comes to takedown defense. He's defended 2 Spivac takedowns in 1 round his whole career.

I don't remember Aspinall wrestling Blaydes in either fight, looked at the stats and it doesn't show any takedowns attempted. I remember thinking that night how dumb Blaydes was to test his standup in their 2nd fight. I just rate guys how they use their game and the skills they use to defend against others.

Like I said, I'm happy to be wrong about Aspinall, but it's an unknown along with his cardio. Either way if Jones is gone, Tom looks to be the guy to beat at HW. If Jones or Almeida end up grinding Aspinall down, I'll think I'll be right back saying I was right the whole time. I'm not saying he has no wrestling, just that if elite guys grab him he could look like a different fighter. We've never seen him struggle and get pushed in a fight yet.

 

[jeff7b9]

I don't remember Aspinall wrestling Blaydes in either fight, looked at the stats and it doesn't show any takedowns attempted. I remember thinking that night how dumb Blaydes was to test his standup in their 2nd fight. I just rate guys how they use their game and the skills they use to defend against others.

First fight was 15-20 seconds and a "freak injury"

second fight I think was 69 seconds.

pretty small sample size, and it is not uncommon for even the most wrestling based MMA fighters to feel it out for a minute or two before committing to a TD so they have enough of a feel for the distance and timing to try to slip under a jab or time a level change.

Like I said, I'm happy to be wrong about Aspinall, but it's an unknown along with his cardio.

Nobody knows.

 

[Bork Neslar]

Pereira haters are the new Pereira fanboys.

 

[RichardHarrow]

I know I'll catch hate for this but I wasn't overly impressed with anks performance and surprised how well poatan dealt with the takedowns.

With a few tweaks poatan could still get the win back frankly.
I say this ad someone who fully expected ank to ground and pound him to death btw.

Not so convinced. Poatan didn't have anything for Ank when they stood.

 

[Safton]

I mean Spivac couldn't take Gane down 3 fights ago, everyone goes on about how he's a whitebelt. I'm talking about his wrestling only, and specifically in reference to Aspinall's body of work in the UFC when it comes to takedown defense. He's defended 2 Spivac takedowns in 1 round his whole career.

Spivak had a really awful performance against Gane. Like, career-worst. He had more success in the stand-up, believe it or not. It's one of the few times I have ever given any credence to the thought of "Did this guy get paid to take a dive?"

More seriously, I think he just had trouble with Gane's footwork and speed. He couldn't get a bead on Ciryl and thus the only takedown he committed to was from the other side of the Octagon, which Bon Gamin sprawled on without much issue. Spivak was able to close in better on Aspinall and get multiple chances, but still got shut down.

Also worth noting that Spivak and Almeida are different types of takedown artist. Spivak is more of an upper-body judoka/Greco guy, whereas Almeida primarily uses double/single-leg entries before transitioning to mat returns if he needs them.

I don't remember Aspinall wrestling Blaydes in either fight, looked at the stats and it doesn't show any takedowns attempted. I remember thinking that night how dumb Blaydes was to test his standup in their 2nd fight. I just rate guys how they use their game and the skills they use to defend against others.

Neither man really had a chance to shoot in the first fight and the second one didn't really last that much longer -- just a minute passed until Aspinall connected with Blaydes and finished him. Besides, Curtis's grappling has badly regressed over the years and I say this as probably one of the biggest Blaydes fanboys on Sherdog.

Like I said, I'm happy to be wrong about Aspinall, but it's an unknown along with his cardio. Either way if Jones is gone, Tom looks to be the guy to beat at HW.

That's the thing, I don't think his grappling is "unknown". I think we've seen enough to conclude that it's dangerous and has to be respected -- better than most Top 15 Heavyweights for sure -- but we just don't know if it's outright better than the other elites and sufficient to keep him safe from a dogged grappler like Jones or Almeida.

If Jones or Almeida end up grinding Aspinall down, I'll think I'll be right back saying I was right the whole time.

Yeah and if Aspinall sprawl-n-brawls Jones or subs him or something crazy I'll be saying I was right the whole time, same as if he replicates what Blaydes did to Jailton in a shorter amount of time. Except the thing is I'm not actually arguing that Aspinall is a categorically superior grappler to either of those men like you seem to think, I'm just saying that what we have seen of his grappling is promising comparative to other HWs and I am not supremely confident that JBJ or Almeida would be able to bully him -- even though I acknowledge such as a real possibility.

I'm not saying he has no wrestling, just that if elite guys grab him he could look like a different fighter. We've never seen him struggle and get pushed in a fight yet.

Sure. He could. Or he could acquit himself very well. It remains to be seen and neither outcome would surprise me based on avaialble evidence. I've spoken against and in favor of Aspinall over the years.

I guess that depends on one's definition of struggling/getting pushed. He visibly adrenaline-dumped and got hit more than one would like against Arlovski, a fight that ended up going late as a result and leaned on his grappling to seal the deal (hence why I question his cardio). Got clipped a bit early against Pavlovich. Has he had some back-and-forth five-round war where he had to survive a prolonged beating? No, but then again some fighters rise to the occasion and others don't.

 

[cburm]

I don't see how he had an easy path when you fight and win you progress and the more times you fight the faster youl progress styles make a difference to he was knocking folks out that's good tv .

 

[Tweak896]

First fight was 15-20 seconds and a "freak injury"

second fight I think was 69 seconds.

pretty small sample size, and it is not uncommon for even the most wrestling based MMA fighters to feel it out for a minute or two before committing to a TD so they have enough of a feel for the distance and timing to try to slip under a jab or time a level change.



Nobody knows.

Yeah true, Blaydes usually isn't a Khabib that just wrestles immediately, plus he clearly focused on his striking and sort of preferred it after getting a couple KO's. Still, both fights ended too early to tell Aspinall's wrestling. I also wouldn't say Blaydes is an elite wrestler after what Almeida did to him.

Spivak had a really awful performance against Gane. Like, career-worst. He had more success in the stand-up, believe it or not. It's one of the few times I have ever given any credence to the thought of "Did this guy get paid to take a dive?"

More seriously, I think he just had trouble with Gane's footwork and speed. He couldn't get a bead on Ciryl and thus the only takedown he committed to was from the other side of the Octagon, which Bon Gamin sprawled on without much issue. Spivak was able to close in better on Aspinall and get multiple chances, but still got shut down.

Also worth noting that Spivak and Almeida are different types of takedown artist. Spivak is more of an upper-body judoka/Greco guy, whereas Almeida primarily uses double/single-leg entries before transitioning to mat returns if he needs them.



Neither man really had a chance to shoot in the first fight and the second one didn't really last that much longer -- just a minute passed until Aspinall connected with Blaydes and finished him. Besides, Curtis's grappling has badly regressed over the years and I say this as probably one of the biggest Blaydes fanboys on Sherdog.


That's the thing, I don't think his grappling is "unknown". I think we've seen enough to conclude that it's dangerous and has to be respected -- better than most Top 15 Heavyweights for sure -- but we just don't know if it's outright better than the other elites and sufficient to keep him safe from a dogged grappler like Jones or Almeida.



Yeah and if Aspinall sprawl-n-brawls Jones or subs him or something crazy I'll be saying I was right the whole time, same as if he replicates what Blaydes did to Jailton in a shorter amount of time. Except the thing is I'm not actually arguing that Aspinall is a categorically superior grappler to either of those men like you seem to think, I'm just saying that what we have seen of his grappling is promising comparative to other HWs and I am not supremely confident that JBJ or Almeida would be able to bully him -- even though I acknowledge such as a real possibility.



Sure. He could. Or he could acquit himself very well. It remains to be seen and neither outcome would surprise me based on avaialble evidence. I've spoken against and in favor of Aspinall over the years.

I guess that depends on one's definition of struggling/getting pushed. He visibly adrenaline-dumped and got hit more than one would like against Arlovski, a fight that ended up going late as a result and leaned on his grappling to seal the deal (hence why I question his cardio). Got clipped a bit early against Pavlovich. Has he had some back-and-forth five-round war where he had to survive a prolonged beating? No, but then again some fighters rise to the occasion and others don't.

Very reasonable assessment. My issue is the people who seem to skip past the fact Jones is kind of eons above everyone else at HW as far as wrestling skill. I don't think Aspinall is going to look like Gane and get subbed first round, but I do think that he's going to be on his back. Jones even took down Stipe who I think has better TDD at his age than most at HW and controlled and almost finished him.

We've seen Aspinall's offensive grappling when it comes to taking guys down who've been clipped or prefer to stand and Aspinall takes them down. He's clearly competent in BJJ, but I'm not sure I'd bet he's going to get an armbar, triangle, or sweep off his back against Jones.

Yes I can see Aspinall taking advantage of a moment like Blaydes against Almeida but you have to admit it was Almeida being wreckless after dominating the first round that he gave up a position to the KO. Reminded me of Barnett/Browne where if they were given a rematch I'd bet on the loser because they wouldn't repeat the same position. Jones is very intelligent and likely wouldn't give easy positions at HW.

 

[Safton]

Very reasonable assessment. My issue is the people who seem to skip past the fact Jones is kind of eons above everyone else at HW as far as wrestling skill. I don't think Aspinall is going to look like Gane and get subbed first round, but I do think that he's going to be on his back. Jones even took down Stipe who I think has better TDD at his age than most at HW and controlled and almost finished him.

I dunno. I think the Jones of old was eons above current Heavyweights in terms of wrestling skill, yes. But the man has gotten old, inactive, injured, and is now fighting bigger men after having a few fights at the tail end of his 205 career where he notably failed to implement his wrestling. Taking down and pounding on a geriatric CTE Stipe who hadn't stepped foot inside the cage in forever doesn't do much to convince me one way or the other.

Mind you, I still think Jon is one of the best grapplers at HW right now but I'm not convinced that he's able to bulldoze everyone at the weight class in that department. There are too many questions marks and red flags surrounding him, just as with Aspinall. I could see him taking down Aspinall, yes. Not sure what happens after that.

We've seen Aspinall's offensive grappling when it comes to taking guys down who've been clipped or prefer to stand and Aspinall takes them down. He's clearly competent in BJJ, but I'm not sure I'd bet he's going to get an armbar, triangle, or sweep off his back against Jones.

He might just not accept the position and scramble back to his feet. A younger version of Jones had trouble holding down Reyes, a smaller man who comparably isn't known for his grappling prowess. Or maybe he gets controlled, grinded on, and pounded out. Who knows?

Yes I can see Aspinall taking advantage of a moment like Blaydes against Almeida but you have to admit it was Almeida being wreckless after dominating the first round that he gave up a position to the KO. Reminded me of Barnett/Browne where if they were given a rematch I'd bet on the loser because they wouldn't repeat the same position. Jones is very intelligent and likely wouldn't give easy positions at HW.

I wouldn't. I picked Blaydes by KO/TKO and got the result I expected after making several posts in support of Blaydes. It was basically a rerun of his win over Cody East back in the day, weirdly enough. Jailton had a lot of success taking him down and holding positions on him in Round 1, but Curtis showed me a lot of composure in keeping himself safe from GnP and the choke while steadily working his way back up and in turn forcing Jailton to work to keep him down.

I think Curtis has access to the perfect training resource in B Team and Nicky Rod to simulate Almeida's approach and while there's always a chance Almeida catches the submission or just remains positionally sound to grind out a Decision, I think Blaydes waits his turn and takes his turn. He's the more seasoned striker.

Also, in regards to Aspinall versus Almeida, if Jailton was having that much trouble against Spivak to the point that he leaned on his standup to win then I think Aspinall could have just as much success. He is clearly quite competent in BJJ and could potentially sweep Jailton from bottom like Spivak did and I think he's one of the few guys who is nearly as fast and explosive as the Brazilian. It's an intriguing fight and one I'd like to see one day, especially because I still have questions about Tom's grappling & cardio.

 

[Clark Rogers]

The hell is a Contlrad?

I think OP maybe kinda just outed themselves as one of those that think misspelling names is just the funnest/funniest thing to do.

 

[Tweak896]

I dunno. I think the Jones of old was eons above current Heavyweights in terms of wrestling skill, yes. But the man has gotten old, inactive, injured, and is now fighting bigger men after having a few fights at the tail end of his 205 career where he notably failed to implement his wrestling. Taking down and pounding on a geriatric CTE Stipe who hadn't stepped foot inside the cage in forever doesn't do much to convince me one way or the other.

Mind you, I still think Jon is one of the best grapplers at HW right now but I'm not convinced that he's able to bulldoze everyone at the weight class in that department. There are too many questions marks and red flags surrounding him, just as with Aspinall. I could see him taking down Aspinall, yes. Not sure what happens after that.




He might just not accept the position and scramble back to his feet. A younger version of Jones had trouble holding down Reyes, a smaller man who comparably isn't known for his grappling prowess. Or maybe he gets controlled, grinded on, and pounded out. Who knows?




I wouldn't. I picked Blaydes by KO/TKO and got the result I expected after making several posts in support of Blaydes. It was basically a rerun of his win over Cody East back in the day, weirdly enough. Jailton had a lot of success taking him down and holding positions on him in Round 1, but Curtis showed me a lot of composure in keeping himself safe from GnP and the choke while steadily working his way back up and in turn forcing Jailton to work to keep him down.

I think Curtis has access to the perfect training resource in B Team and Nicky Rod to simulate Almeida's approach and while there's always a chance Almeida catches the submission or just remains positionally sound to grind out a Decision, I think Blaydes waits his turn and takes his turn. He's the more seasoned striker.

Also, in regards to Aspinall versus Almeida, if Jailton was having that much trouble against Spivak to the point that he leaned on his standup to win then I think Aspinall could have just as much success. He is clearly quite competent in BJJ and could potentially sweep Jailton from bottom like Spivak did and I think he's one of the few guys who is nearly as fast and explosive as the Brazilian. It's an intriguing fight and one I'd like to see one day, especially because I still have questions about Tom's grappling & cardio.

We've only seen Jones HW wrestling in two matches but he managed to keep Gane and Stipe down. You're right that it's hard to bet it's a sure thing at his age and mileage, but his technique atleast puts him ahead of the whole division by skill. It's even harder to gauge Stipe's status of his wrestling at his age with 1 fight since Ngannou. He could be washed or the time off meant he had even better TDD from healing.

I feel like people refer to the Reyes fight too often to judge Jones, forgetting how unknown Reyes was and also how Jones possibly overlooked him. To me it seemed like fans and probably Jones thought that era of LHW were garbage, so it was free wins for Jones. (Santos, Smith, Reyes). Jones worst fights are usually against guys that no one thought would give him a tough fight. So I think he does take lighter training camps for opponents that are perceived to be weak.



As far as Blaydes and Almeida goes, interesting pick. I'd like to see a rematch if there's nothing new for either guy down the road. You're right that Almeida looks like he trains zero striking, it's like he doesn't even bother with it. Still your analysis makes me excited for a few matchups down the road if Jones vacates and leaves HW.