Law Congressman Salud Carbajal accused of doxxing ICE agent, who is later targeted by anti ICE protesters and struck with a rock.

[Mr Holmes]

It could, except they were literally trying to overthrow the government cuz they didn't like the results of an election and we're all pardoned.

They didn't even bring weapons. It was nothing more than a bunch of low IQ goofs getting carried away and rioting.

ICE is often violating people's rights and snatching up people who've been here for decades, holding them in shit conditions and sometimes sending them to foreign gulags with no due process which makes the public highly unsympathetic and concerned where this is going, especially with trump's comments, not to mention no ID, often no warrants and no badges.

We voted for mass deportations. I'm not concerned about people that have been here illegally are being held in shit conditions. When our own citizens get arrested they're often held in shit conditions too. And I don't blame ICE for trying to hide their identities with all the attacks they have been receiving. As for CECOT.. leave it up to Trump to fuck everything up.

 

[deviake]

 

[deviake]

They didn't even bring weapons. It was nothing more than a bunch of low IQ goofs getting carried away and rioting.


We voted for mass deportations. I'm not concerned about people that have been here illegally are being held in shit conditions. When our own citizens get arrested they're often held in shit conditions too. And I don't blame ICE for trying to hide their identities with all the attacks they have been receiving. As for CECOT.. leave it up to Trump to fuck everything up.

Fact Check: US Capitol attack rioters had weapons, including firearms

Witness testimony and evidence in legal cases against supporters of President Donald Trump who stormed the U.S. Capitol in January 2021 show that some of the rioters had weapons, contrary to social media posts saying the attack could not be called an “insurrection” because none of the...

www.reuters.com

You're minimizing it and leaving out Trump's role and blatant refusal to admit he lost fairly, never mind the internal emails that referred to it as the "fake elector" scheme.

Our own citizens are often in shit conditions too, our prison system and the PIC needs much overhaul. You're not concerned about human rights, constitutional violations and you're not addressing why people don't like ICE and why there's pushback, only with the pushback. Morality is lost on you. That's fine, I prefer people be out in the open with it. We don't and never will agree.

I'll just say - because self interest seems to be all you're concerned with - if you think masked, unaccountable government agents can never come for you, never mind at the behest of a government that openly defies the judiciary, you are woefully naive.

 

[Cajun]

Does your job allow you to beat, murder, or kidnap citizens and if you get caught and a Court convicts you, the money paid in compensation to the citizens comes from those same citizens?

No but all ice workers do not beat and murder. Some cops beat and murder but its not all cops. I remember cops being shot in their cars etc a few years ago. General violence is not a solution.

 

[Sinister]

No but all ice workers do not beat and murder. Some cops beat and murder but its not all cops. I remember cops being shot in their cars etc a few years ago. General violence is not a solution.

I'll entertain this discussion with you because you genuinely think about the things you say, and you're a good dude.

Way back when that Texas sniper took out those Cops (the one they executed with a bomb attached to a robot), I had a conversation with my Mother about this where she said the same thing. Violence isnt an answer/solution. You just cant so that. What I said to her was this:

"Mom Tamir Rice was 12 years-old. Some of these victims are children. They're killing kids, what do they think is going to happen?"

The answer is simple, what they think is going to happen is compliance with oppression. We're not talking about this because we, as a society, spend too much time bickering about stupid issues, but Cops are becoming systemically unhinged. Widespread DUI arrests of sober drivers. A general attitude towards the public that we are guilty before proven innocent. Exploitation of things like Pennsylvania v Mims used to escalate pretextual traffic stops, both of which should be illegal. ICE's behavior is symptomatic of the same issues.

There is video of them tackling a pregnant woman. They're deporting children who are US citizens and blaming the parents. They are detaining people based on the look of them without warrants and without any distinct suspicion that they're not citizens.

What do they think is going to happen?

I've been saying this for a few months now but this WILL escalate. They know it will. That's why they're doing it. Escalation is what they want outside of timid compliance. Because when people openly resist the violence being enacted against them with literally anything that can be conceived of as violence, authoritarian regimes always move to crush the resistance and blame the people for it. Like an abusive husband: "look what YOU made me do!!"

But I enjoy these threads, shows me who will lick the boots pretty clearly.

 

[Mr Holmes]

Fact Check: US Capitol attack rioters had weapons, including firearms

Witness testimony and evidence in legal cases against supporters of President Donald Trump who stormed the U.S. Capitol in January 2021 show that some of the rioters had weapons, contrary to social media posts saying the attack could not be called an “insurrection” because none of the...

www.reuters.com

You're minimizing it and leaving out Trump's role and blatant refusal to admit he lost fairly, never mind the internal emails that referred to it as the "fake elector" scheme.

Sorry, but anyone claiming it was an insurrection isn't being honest or has been propagandized. A bunch of disorganized plumbers and accountants running thru the capital isn't an insurrection. And even if thats what they wanted it had such a small chance of succeeding that it shouldn't be taken seriously as one. I actually don't like defending the J6'ers but I think to some degree their constitutional rights were violated and I don't like how Biden's FBI used it as an excuse to spy on us more.

Our own citizens are often in shit conditions too, our prison system and the PIC needs much overhaul. You're not concerned about human rights, constitutional violations and you're not addressing why people don't like ICE and why there's pushback, only with the pushback. Morality is lost on you. That's fine, I prefer people be out in the open with it. We don't and never will agree.

If you break the law you risk being subject to a detention facility. My point was, I think I would prefer an ICE facility of some place like Rikers. Thats the world we currently live in. The right thing for the illegal immigrants to do is take Trump up on his offer and self-deport. Its immoral for them to be here.

I'll just say - because self interest seems to be all you're concerned with - if you think masked, unaccountable government agents can never come for you, never mind at the behest of a government that openly defies the judiciary, you are woefully naive.

I don't buy that is whats happening. ICE agents don't have to present badges to people on demand and I haven't heard of any problems with them deporting American citizens.

 

[Cajun]

I'll entertain this discussion with you because you genuinely think about the things you say, and you're a good dude.

Way back when that Texas sniper took out those Cops (the one they executed with a bomb attached to a robot), I had a conversation with my Mother about this where she said the same thing. Violence isnt an answer/solution. You just cant so that. What I said to her was this:

"Mom Tamir Rice was 12 years-old. Some of these victims are children. They're killing kids, what do they think is going to happen?"

The answer is simple, what they think is going to happen is compliance with oppression. We're not talking about this because we, as a society, spend too much time bickering about stupid issues, but Cops are becoming systemically unhinged. Widespread DUI arrests of sober drivers. A general attitude towards the public that we are guilty before proven innocent. Exploitation of things like Pennsylvania v Mims used to escalate pretextual traffic stops, both of which should be illegal. ICE's behavior is symptomatic of the same issues.

There is video of them tackling a pregnant woman. They're deporting children who are US citizens and blaming the parents. They are detaining people based on the look of them without warrants and without any distinct suspicion that they're not citizens.

What do they think is going to happen?

I've been saying this for a few months now but this WILL escalate. They know it will. That's why they're doing it. Escalation is what they want outside of timid compliance. Because when people openly resist the violence being enacted against them with literally anything that can be conceived of as violence, authoritarian regimes always move to crush the resistance and blame the people for it. Like an abusive husband: "look what YOU made me do!!"

But I enjoy these threads, shows me who will lick the boots pretty clearly.

Thanks for the feedback and the kind words. Again whether its soldiers, police, fbi, cia, police. Its definitely a mixed bag. Im with you on peeps that abuse their power and some take jobs for that purpose. Some just don't have the personalities and can't handle pressure situations where they act rash instead of calm. Even the guy that gave the card may not have had to do that.

I dont have a good answer. So many crossed during the last several years its hard to get a handle on it and of course there will be some resistance. Some of these gangs etc will put up quite a fight. What's made it different is that even though Obama deported more it was all at the border. Trying to remove a lot of the ones that crossed is a different animal. Mistakes will be made though even those arent a good thing. There has to be some accountability over these guys and good run teams managed by the right people. Its a mess for sure. Its a good and necessary discussion.

Cheers man. C

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

If they genuinely thought the election was rigged then going after the government to hold it accountable would be justified.

right, and while they were stupid for believing so, they did truly believe it, imo.

More the point is that the law and order people don't care that Trump lied his way into an attempted coup and his moron supporters tried to carry it out, and do so in the dumbest way possible but then call liberals and the left violent. It's staggering hypocrisy

for sure. you just can't get yourself too wrapped up in that because, inherently, it makes your statement essentially the exact same thing. or at least it opens you up to the exact same point from the opposing perspective.

 

[deviake]

Sorry, but anyone claiming it was an insurrection isn't being honest or has been propagandized. A bunch of disorganized plumbers and accountants running thru the capital isn't an insurrection. And even if thats what they wanted it had such a small chance of succeeding that it shouldn't be taken seriously as one. I actually don't like defending the J6'ers but I think to some degree their constitutional rights were violated and I don't like how Biden's FBI used it as an excuse to spy on us more.


If you break the law you risk being subject to a detention facility. My point was, I think I would prefer an ICE facility of some place like Rikers. Thats the world we currently live in. The right thing for the illegal immigrants to do is take Trump up on his offer and self-deport. Its immoral for them to be here.


I don't buy that is whats happening. ICE agents don't have to present badges to people on demand and I haven't heard of any problems with them deporting American citizens.

We're not sidestepping that you said there were no weapons. The chance of success is irrelevant as is the occupation of those involved. The "fake elector" scheme is not something I'll let go nor that Trump knows he lost nor the fact nearly all of them were pardoned. All deflection and obfuscation. "Biden's FBI" my brother in Christ if you're concerned about the 4th amendment you're at least a couple decades late to the party and ignoring this regime's actions, including what ICE has been up to but yes, more spying is bad regardless of who's doing it.

What'd you'd prefer doesn't matter and "our entire prison system is really bad actually" doesn't negate my point, actually kinda bolsters it because the precedent for ICE's actions and our PIC writ large were issues prior to this regime.

Legal US citizens HAVE been deported, that is not an opinion. You can type four words into a search engine. Trump has also mentioned "the homegrowns". The 14th amendment is a thing my dude.

ICE agents not having to present badges, ID themselves, have warrants, nor apparently be accountable at all is kinda the point bro not to mention it's already lead to people impersonating ICE to commit crime.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

There are good and bad in all jobs. Its why promotion of violence against cops or others isn't a good thing.

so deliberate, targeted violence BY the cops and feds on hard-working americans should be met with what kind of resistance exactly? i promote resisting tyranny and violence by whatever means are most effective, regardless of what they are. so did our founding fathers.

 

[Teppodama]

This story doesn't have nearly enough shooting of protestors and politicians with crowd control measures.

 

[deviake]

right, and while they were stupid for believing so, they did truly believe it, imo.

for sure. you just can't get yourself too wrapped up in that because, inherently, it makes your statement essentially the exact same thing. or at least it opens you up to the exact same point from the opposing perspective.

They seemed to believe it even though Trump doesn't, as far as I'm aware.

Fair. Yeah, I try to communicate it in a way that's holding up a mirror but maybe I need to check myself or at least be more clear on what I'm getting at and make sure I don't get too libbed up. It's a tightrope to walk because I'm trying to say, "look, this was bullshit and you obviously don't care about cops being hurt nor the government being attacked" but also like yeah, if they truly thought it was rigged then trying to set things right - whatever I think of the methods, execution, and reasoning - was the correct action and people should be able to organize for redress of grievances despite my thoughts on this instance.

It's also just an easy thing to play on, an easy "gotcha!" when people call burning Tesla's terrorism and whatnot.

 

[lifelessheap]

F*ck ICE

Man, tens of millions disrespecting US laws is gross. I've been to Mexico and I followed all of their laws. It isn't hard.

 

[Cajun]

so deliberate, targeted violence BY the cops and feds on hard-working americans should be met with what kind of resistance exactly? i promote resisting tyranny and violence by whatever means are most effective, regardless of what they are. so did our founding fathers.

I think that the subjectivity involved is where it goes off the rails. The guy that killed the insurance ceo may have thought the same. Ultimately protesting etc is a right. Contacting congressmen etc is a good course of action. But if you just kill some random cop because of an unjustified violence of another doesnt track to me.

 

[Sinister]

Thanks for the feedback and the kind words. Again whether its soldiers, police, fbi, cia, police. Its definitely a mixed bag. Im with you on peeps that abuse their power and some take jobs for that purpose. Some just don't have the personalities and can't handle pressure situations where they act rash instead of calm. Even the guy that gave the card may not have had to do that.

I dont have a good answer. So many crossed during the last several years its hard to get a handle on it and of course there will be some resistance. Some of these gangs etc will put up quite a fight. What's made it different is that even though Obama deported more it was all at the border. Trying to remove a lot of the ones that crossed is a different animal. Mistakes will be made though even those arent a good thing. There has to be some accountability over these guys and good run teams managed by the right people. Its a mess for sure. Its a good and necessary discussion.

Cheers man. C

Obama's administration took the time and effort to vet for criminals. This regime just seems to want to do it faster and in a way that placates xenophobes.

 

[Sinister]

Man, tens of millions disrespecting US laws is gross. I've been to Mexico and I followed all of their laws. It isn't hard.

You dont think there are Americans in Mexico disrespecting their laws? Lol

Also there's around 10 million undocumented immigrants, not tens of millions. Dont exaggerate.

But this isnt about brown people homie. You of all people should realize this is about police misconduct and authoritarian tyranny. Dont be excusatory of the same sh*t you complain about in the Cop thread now.

 

[Cajun]

Obama's administration took the time and effort to vet for criminals. This regime just seems to want to do it faster and in a way that placates xenophobes.

Well if you are caught illegally crossing the border then that's much easier because they are in the act and didnt go through an entry point. Obviously his stance was clear on illegal entry. But the millions that crossed in the last several years poses a unique obstacle. Again, I dont have a good solution or one that won't take 20 years. Even at this rate its only been 139k out of millions since 2019. It will not get solved even at this rate. Maybe some congressional changes maybe. Again... its a mess.

 

[Sinister]

Well if you are caught illegally crossing the border then that's much easier because they are in the act and didnt go through an entry point. Obviously his stance was clear on illegal entry. But the millions that crossed in the last several years poses a unique obstacle. Again, I dont have a good solution or one that won't take 20 years. Even at this rate its only been 139k out of millions since 2019. It will not get solved even at this rate. Maybe some congressional changes maybe. Again... its a mess.

There's a way to deal with it in line 15 minutes. Reagan knew half of it. But their answer was to do the amnesty and then try to make legal immigration even harder for poor people, which, combined with our foreign policy creates a powder keg situation.

This issue wouldn't be nearly as difficult if you didnt have an entire party to who made xenophobia a political cudgel, and another party who let that party get away with it for a long time.

 

[helltoupee]

Sorry, but anyone claiming it was an insurrection isn't being honest or has been propagandized. A bunch of disorganized plumbers and accountants running thru the capital isn't an insurrection. And even if thats what they wanted it had such a small chance of succeeding that it shouldn't be taken seriously as one.

Right, so by that logic, if you attempt to commit a crime and fail miserably, it's not a crime anymore.

Intent apparently means nothing all of a sudden, so the guy who goes to rob a bank, an idiot plumber or accountant (because apparently unless you are a professional criminal it doesn't count), bumbles the job and the cops show up before he can actually steal anything - who knew that the bank robber would just be set free in this hypothetical because he "shouldn't be taken seriously".

What was the INTENT of the Jan 6ers?

 

[Sinister]

Right, so by that logic, if you attempt to commit a crime and fail miserably, it's not a crime anymore.

Intent apparently means nothing all of a sudden, so the guy who goes to rob a bank, an idiot plumber or accountant (because apparently unless you are a professional criminal it doesn't count), bumbles the job and the cops show up before he can actually steal anything - who knew that the bank robber would just be set free in this hypothetical because he "shouldn't be taken seriously".

What was the INTENT of the Jan 6ers?

Intent doesnt matter for the (R)ight people.

Same as how they argued that fraud against the State is a "victimless crime" so long as Trump did it.