Media Bisping questioning whether Alex Pereira is Top 5 all time at LHW

[The Siege]

Are we talking Alex Pereira? And MMA? I have no clue where you're getting his numbers from, but they're not accurate.

You have to give TS a break, how is he supposed to know that Periera has only had 4 LHW fights with 3 being title fights? 2 of those being against the same guy. These fights happened so long ago, that not many records exist.

He also "wasn't sure" that Gus was better than Jiri or Jan, despite Gus already beating Jan a while back.

 

[filthybliss]

Yes for that time Chuck is definitely in the top 5 all time LHW. But it's crazy to say Pereira doesn't belong in the top 5. He's already ahead of Tito.

For the record, I think Poatan would KO Tito but Tito has done far more in LHW than Poatan. He even faced better competition.

FWIW, Forrest Griffin is better than anyone that Poatan has clashed with so far in the division.

 

[Gladiator24]

Pereira is fighting nobodies and getting gifted decisions and hand picked opponents.

Jiri is the lowest IQ fighter I have ever seen.

‘I know what I will do, I will drop my right hand to my waist and not protect my chin at all, this dude throws left hooks all the time but so what derp derp’

 

[RockyLockridge]

Jan was 40 when he fought Poatan and it was quite competetive lol.

Jiri is too easy to hit. I don’t think he’d do too hot against gus or rumble because of it. It took a lot of damage out of him to beat Rakic and Glover.

Yeah but recall that Gus lost to smith. and that stain is unwashable in my eyes.

Pereira is fighting nobodies and getting gifted decisions and hand picked opponents.

Jiri is the lowest IQ fighter I have ever seen.

‘I know what I will do, I will drop my right hand to my waist and not protect my chin at all, this dude throws left hooks all the time but so what derp derp’

cope harder, Which handpicked match up was he given? Which nightmare match up has he avoided?

 

[Gladiator24]

Yeah but recall that Gus lost to smith. and that stain is unwashable in my eyes.


cope harder, Which handpicked match up was he given? Which nightmare match up has he avoided?

Ankalaev.

 

[filthybliss]

Yeah but recall that Gus lost to smith. and that stain is unwashable in my eyes.

Poatan lost to a welterweight plumber....that is a shit stain even thicker.

But you ain't rag dolling Poatan over it because he has good wins similar to how you should treat Gus....

 

[blackheart]

Yes I would say so. I go by what I see in performances, I couldn’t give a crap about records, that’s why Jones has been able to stake a claim by beating up old past their prime legends using eye pokes and knee stops roided up

People believe that is the best humanity has to offer? It’s a joke, a bad one

This is of course, completely ridiculous.

So if you go 20-0 with 20 first round KOs against regional bums - you're the GOAT by your own logic? Only performances matter and records don't??

Ofc who you beat matters. But to your point - performance needs to get factored in here. How is a fighter accomplishing these wins? That matters. And we've never seen a LHW just absolutely blowing top contenders and former champs out of the water like this. Even Jon Jones took 3 rounds to beat a washed Shogun. 4 Rounds to beat Rampage. 2 rounds to beat Machida. 5 round UD to beat Rashad. We've never seen someone go in there and just KTFO every other elite LHW in the first round. It's crazy. I'd like to see the Jan fight again because I think that fight looks completely different the second time.

 

[King in the North]

If you have DC at two you absolutely have to have Alex top five. Both guys haven’t fought/didn’t fight that many times at 205 but they’ve both got great wins.

Whether you want to put them ahead of other guys who spent more time in the division is subjective I suppose. But that’s really the only knock I see on ranking Alex top five all time.

 

[Marko Polo]

This is of course, completely ridiculous.

So if you go 20-0 with 20 first round KOs against regional bums - you're the GOAT by your own logic? Only performances matter and records don't??

Ofc who you beat matters. But to your point - performance needs to get factored in here. How is a fighter accomplishing these wins? That matters. And we've never seen a LHW just absolutely blowing top contenders and former champs out of the water like this. Even Jon Jones took 3 rounds to beat a washed Shogun. 4 Rounds to beat Rampage. 2 rounds to beat Machida. 5 round UD to beat Rashad. We've never seen someone go in there and just KTFO every other elite LHW in the first round. It's crazy. I'd like to see the Jan fight again because I think that fight looks completely different the second time.

You’re agreeing with me and you don’t realise it.


Jon wants us to take his record at face value, especially this last win against Miocic. Beating a 45 year old version of a guy and having that guys name on your record is bogus which most people would agree, this does not matter to Jon. But at the same time, Jon already has a loss to Matt Hammil. So if we look at Jon’s record the way he wants us to, which is completely objectively, then he has a loss already and shouldn’t be scared shitless about fighting real opponents like Aspinall, and before that Ngannou. He’s been at this shit for years dude

 

[blackheart]

You’re agreeing with me and you don’t realise it.

Oh I realized it, hence why I said - " But to your point - performance needs to get factored in here"

Jon wants us to take his record at face value, especially this last win against Miocic. Beating a 45 year old version of a guy and having that guys name on your record is bogus which most people would agree, this does not matter to Jon. But at the same time, Jon already has a loss to Matt Hammil. So if we look at Jon’s record the way he wants us to, which is completely objectively, then he has a loss already and shouldn’t be scared shitless about fighting real opponents like Aspinall, and before that Ngannou. He’s been at this shit for years dude

I just pointed out the logical flaw in going to the other extreme and saying that only performance matters. No they both matter, but often performance is barely factored in by "experts". Having an insanely dominant performance like a first round KO, is only extremely impressive if the person you did it to has a great record. And yeah fuck Jon Jones, the king of steroid using woman beaters, ducks, and rank squatters.

 

[The Siege]

This is of course, completely ridiculous.

So if you go 20-0 with 20 first round KOs against regional bums - you're the GOAT by your own logic? Only performances matter and records don't??

Ofc who you beat matters. But to your point - performance needs to get factored in here. How is a fighter accomplishing these wins? That matters. And we've never seen a LHW just absolutely blowing top contenders and former champs out of the water like this. Even Jon Jones took 3 rounds to beat a washed Shogun. 4 Rounds to beat Rampage. 2 rounds to beat Machida. 5 round UD to beat Rashad. We've never seen someone go in there and just KTFO every other elite LHW in the first round. It's crazy. I'd like to see the Jan fight again because I think that fight looks completely different the second time.

I agree with your first point.

But every other elite LHW? He KOed Jiri and Hill... 2 guys. He took Jan to a decision.

He's exciting and fun to watch, but we need to relax for a moment and let the guy build his career at LHW if he chooses to stay.

He may very well knock every opponent he faces from here-on out, but knocking out 2 guys, 2 of those KOs coming during short notice fights isn't enough to make me say he will run through the division.

 

[RockyLockridge]

Poatan lost to a welterweight plumber....that is a shit stain even thicker.

But you ain't rag dolling Poatan over it because he has good wins similar to how you should treat Gus....

I dont think that was anywhere near his prime, as a matter of fact it was his very first ever mma fight. and no I will not hold that against him or view it similar. Gus lost to smith AFTER he just fought for a title.

Smith has lost to multiple contenders and champions in the LHW division Including but not limited to; Jan, Santos, ankalaev glover and walker. He's very clearly a middle of the road guy. Not saying gus isn't a great fighter but Rumble for example makes quick work of smith all of the day.

 

[RockyLockridge]

Ankalaev.

He's been offered the fight several times and has turned it down. What is alex to do? Just plain not fight anyone until he's ready?

Ankalaev is not the champion, the division does not revolve around him. He could have fought alex at UFC 300 and chose not to. He could have had a title already but decided he doesn't like fighting in the first 3 rounds of a very winnable fight.

Ankalaev is a tough match up for alex, and I have nothing but faith alex will take that match up soon, but ankalaev is a goof ball who has made things harder for himself much like khamzat

 

[blackheart]

I agree with your first point.

But every other elite LHW? He KOed Jiri and Hill... 2 guys.

Those two guys are not just two guys. They are the two most recent champs. Those two guys are the two most elite guys in the division not named Alex Pereira

He took Jan to a decision.

I think that fight looks insanely different a second time around. If they fight again I'd bet my 401k that Alex KO's him inside 3.

He's exciting and fun to watch, but we need to relax for a moment and let the guy build his career at LHW if he chooses to stay.

I don't disagree. He needs more title wins. I just think when you look at who he is beating and how he is beating them, what he's doing is insanely impressive.

I don't think Alex has the time left to be a divisional GOAT (or in the conversation for a divisional GOAT), BUT if he can get 1-2 two more LHW title defenses (Ank for sure, maybe Jan 2) and win a strap at HW (obviously a giant IF), then he unquestionably becomes a top 3 MMA GOAT and he's unquestionably the pound for pound #1 (maybe #1 all-time pound for pound too). I don't know who else could possibly have an argument for p4p GOAT at that point. No one has had that much success across so many weight classes.

He may very well knock every opponent he faces from here-on out, but knocking out 2 guys, 2 of those KOs coming during short notice fights isn't enough to make me say he will run through the division.

two guys, but 3 fights and 3 early KO's against the two most elite guys in the division.

 

[RockyLockridge]

He may very well knock every opponent he faces from here-on out, but knocking out 2 guys, 2 of those KOs coming during short notice fights isn't enough to make me say he will run through the division.

I think if you looked at the LHW rankings you'd think it's pretty damn likely he runs through them all. Jan already tried to implement his grappling threat. Ankalaev is really his only grappling challenge then maybe rakic. Roundtree jr, Krylov, ulberg will all oblige alex in the stand up.

 

[Marko Polo]

Oh I realized it, hence why I said - " But to your point - performance needs to get factored in here"

I just pointed out the logical flaw in going to the other extreme and saying that only performance matters. No they both matter, but often performance is barely factored in by "experts". Having an insanely dominant performance like a first round KO, is only extremely impressive if the person you did it to has a great record. And yeah fuck Jon Jones, the king of steroid using woman beaters, ducks, and rank squatters.

It’s all subjective at the end of the day, but I go by what I see with my own eyes. Even then I’m hypocritical, like I consider Khabib to be one of the greatest fighters of all time but he was never really in any fights. With that said, he fought Gaethje, Poirier and McGregor one after another and mauled every single one effortlessly. But he never had to cheat like Jones

Which brings me back to my first point and judging performances with your own eyes. People here mention Jones’ eye pokes, but I’m actually adamant it was a massive tool in his arsenal, because if you look at how he’s performed since they forced him to close his hands, hes looked terrible. Literally every single fight without fail he was stopping people closing the distance by poking them in the eyes. People post gifs of him ragdolling old man Bonnar when he was young as if it meant anything. Then there’s the drugs

I just don’t believe that guy is the best we have to offer

 

[filthybliss]

I dont think that was anywhere near his prime, as a matter of fact it was his very first ever mma fight. and no I will not hold that against him or view it similar. Gus lost to smith AFTER he just fought for a title.

Smith has lost to multiple contenders and champions in the LHW division Including but not limited to; Jan, Santos, ankalaev glover and walker. He's very clearly a middle of the road guy. Not saying gus isn't a great fighter but Rumble for example makes quick work of smith all of the day.

You are being unfair, is Gus in his prime if he loses 2 matches in a row after that? And was knocked out clean in his prior title bout?

Sure, Smith is a middle of pack guy but mma math is not 1:1. Gus smacked up a non-geriatric Jan and Glover in his prime....

The arguement that I am making here is not that Gus beats Poatan, anyways. It is that the Gus of 2010-2017 is better than any force that Poatan has squared up against, plain and simple.

 

[filthybliss]

It’s all subjective at the end of the day, but I go by what I see with my own eyes. Even then I’m hypocritical, like I consider Khabib to be one of the greatest fighters of all time but he was never really in any fights. With that said, he fought Gaethje, Poirier and McGregor one after another and mauled every single one effortlessly. But he never had to cheat like Jones

Which brings me back to my first point and judging performances with your own eyes. People here mention Jones’ eye pokes, but I’m actually adamant it was a massive tool in his arsenal, because if you look at how he’s performed since they forced him to close his hands, hes looked terrible. Literally every single fight without fail he was stopping people closing the distance by poking them in the eyes. People post gifs of him ragdolling old man Bonnar when he was young as if it meant anything. Then there’s the drugs

I just don’t believe that guy is the best we have to offer

Jones is better than Khabib, the gap in accomplishments speak for themselves. Jones was a LHW champion at 23 whereas Khabib was fighting high schoolers in gym class at 23.

I agree though, he is not the best martial artist ever that is Fedor!

 

[The Siege]

Those two guys are not just two guys. They are the two most recent champs. Those two guys are the two most elite guys in the division not named Alex Pereira

Sure, but again, two recent champs with a combined 0 defenses. As you argued above, performances matter but so does the record. Not all former or current champs are equal and it would be ridiculous to claim they are.

These are former champs in a division where old man Glover finally got the belt when in his younger days he only reached one TS.

Jiri got that belt by beating that Old Man Glover. Same with Hill.

Even you can admit that the division is not as strong as it used to be.

I think that fight looks insanely different a second time around. If they fight again I'd bet my 401k that Alex KO's him inside 3.

I agree. But we can only go by what happened, otherwise Khabib has 7 defenses at LW right now. Maybe they do fight again, I would pick Alex to win like I did last time.

I don't disagree. He needs more title wins. I just think when you look at who he is beating and how he is beating them, what he's doing is insanely impressive.

I am just not that impressed with Jiri and Hill nor Jan honestly. Not Periera's fault obviously.

I don't think Alex has the time left to be a divisional GOAT (or in the conversation for a divisional GOAT), BUT if he can get 1-2 two more LHW title defenses (Ank for sure, maybe Jan 2) and win a strap at HW (obviously a giant IF), then he unquestionably becomes a top 3 MMA GOAT and he's unquestionably the pound for pound #1 (maybe #1 all-time pound for pound too). I don't know who else could possibly have an argument for p4p GOAT at that point. No one has had that much success across so many weight classes.

I agree. I said as much in an earlier post. GO for something that hasn't been done nor will probably ever be done because the circumstances are pretty unique right now. No one is beating Jon's LHW record.

two guys, but 3 fights and 3 early KO's against the two most elite guys in the division.

True they are the most elite in the division, its still 2 guys. In fact, the second time you are more prepared for them.

 

[OldBoy91]

I don't think you can be a top 5 divisional GOAT when you only have 4 wins in the division, against 3 guys. 2 of which were stylistic gifts.

He is approaching legendary status because of his overall career, but he is neither a top 5 all time at 185 or 205 in the UFC, and definitely not MMA in general, where you have guys like Shogun, Rampage, Wanderlei etc.