Elections 2020 Democratic Primary Thread v4

[Lead]

Warren had a better line with “Pete wants to have a billionaire to pay one students tuition, I want a billionaire to pay for all students tuition.” Surprised it didn’t hit that well with the crowd.

 

[Lead]

I don’t get the transgender murder stat. Are they presuming these are all hate crimes or is the problem because there isn’t legislation, it isn’t documented if it was a hate crime? If it’s just regular murders (as odd as a phrase like that sounds), that’s an odd way to put things.

 

[Phisher]

Amy Klobuchar mentioned during the debate that all 18 years olds should be automatically registered to vote on their birthday.

Then I thought, they already send selective service registration letters to all 18 year old males on their birthday.

So, why isn't this a thing?

Because the Republicans have made it a strategy to deliberately suppress voter turnout for the past generation, and the inept Democrats have refused to fight them on this issue.

 

[Phisher]

The mask is going to slip off of Petey boy any time now.

 

[Fawlty]

Warren got smacked hard there. Attacking the only non millionaire or billionaire on stage for taking money from millionaires was a lack of self awareness

Looking at the results from the viewer survey, it was Warren who came out on top of that. That bothers me, because she was exposed for such deep and disgusting hypocrisy on that issue, but somehow was still viewed sympathetically, while Pete got his lowest marks yet. She really should go fuck herself for that attack. I'm about totally off her as somebody I support. Her record of dishonesty is growing by the month, and she's lost the benefit of the doubt from me.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Looking at the results from the viewer survey, it was Warren who came out on top of that. That bothers me, because she was exposed for such deep and disgusting hypocrisy on that issue, but somehow was still viewed sympathetically, while Pete got his lowest marks yet. She really should go fuck herself for that attack. I'm about totally off her as somebody I support. Her record of dishonesty is growing by the month, and she's lost the benefit of the doubt from me.

They actually have surveys based on specific segments of the debate? The internet is awesome!

 

[Fawlty]

They actually have surveys based on specific segments of the debate? The internet is awesome!

Nah not quite to that degree yet. But I'm making the correlation because Pete was quite strong and Warren was quite weak that night, they had the fieriest exchange and their ratings went opposite ways.

 

[kpt018]

Where and what is your evidence of difficult primaries hurting the winner ? And what is logical about it? I'm not attacking you. I'm asking you to explain why you think what you think.

If you're a candidate that has this much baggage then you shouldn't be running for office. If you can't handle the fire, then you weren't a good candidate to start with. We're not talking about frivolous, #fakenews, 'you're not woke enough' stuff here. I'm talking about your record, and your stances and vision for the future.
Campaign financing, Healthcare, immigration, and student loan debt have been the biggest, most talked about issues right now--if you can't clearly answer questions on your record, views, and plans on these things, then why are you in the race?
If Pete can't answer questions about the racial issues with police in his town, flip flopping on UHC, his views on money in politics, then why is he there? If he truly has the beliefs that he has, then he needs to defend them and make that case. Instead, he's been dismissive and dodgy.

We shouldn't be throwing softballs at any of the candidates, Bernie included, because Trump and the GOP won't.
I'm all in on Bernie, but I'm obviously going to vote for whatever Dem wins--even Pete or Bloomberg. But we aren't helping ourselves by knowingly let politicians tell us bullshit.


Being establishment is NOT what you're claiming it to be. It has little to nothing to do with your gender or sexuality or where you're from. That's not what people are talking about when they talk about 'the establishment'.
The establishment is about policy and about a group of people that are trying to maintain control over an existing system, they are controlling and shaping the party. What is establishment today, could be different in 50 years from now.
The establishment is career politicians, donors, lobbyists, certain corporations and groups that help shape who are "good candidates" and what the "acceptable policies" are. There's a reason certain politicians get endorsements , courted by donors, and news coverage, while others do not.

Your concern over whether or not Bernie would be able to pass his legislation is valid. But I think one of the biggest problems the Democrats have is that they talk a lot of shit, and don't do anything to back it up. Nothing gets done in politics because there are no consequences. And Democrats don't fight like the Republicans do.
I like Bernie's idea of him going to the districts and states of these Congressmen and taking his argument directly to the people. People in general are apathetic on politics because they don't think it matters/nothing will change.

I don’t disagree with much of this but it doesn’t really address what I said. The main sticking point is how we define the establishment. It seems to me your definition includes control over the system. But that means by definition anyone in politics is part of the establishment. And they are part of the political establishment, but obviously that does nothing to highlight differences of opinion on policy.

When I think about establishment I think about “the man”. Big business interests who’s primary political goals are to pay less tax, reduce regulation, etc.. Upwards redistribution of wealth and increased power to owners of capital and their management (taken from workers).

Based on my definition the only people you can really consider establishment are Steyer and Bloomberg (and fuck those two, honestly). Even Biden and Klobachar (lesser extent Buttigieg) are not going to give the establishment, as I define it, anything they want. They’re just not as extreme as Bernie and Warren who want to eliminate an industry, break up companies and cause massive disruption. It should shock no one that these types would prefer moderate Democrats. But that does not make these candidates “corporate Dems”, “neoliberals”, “pro-establishment” or any other term you want to smear them with.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Nah not quite to that degree yet. But I'm making the correlation because Pete was quite strong and Warren was quite weak that night, they had the fieriest exchange and their ratings went opposite ways.

Ah, i see. I'm finding it hard to correlate performances and aftermath. Biden always seems to bounce back a week or two afterwards. But I can see where your logic is taking you.

 

[kpt018]

Looking at the results from the viewer survey, it was Warren who came out on top of that. That bothers me, because she was exposed for such deep and disgusting hypocrisy on that issue, but somehow was still viewed sympathetically, while Pete got his lowest marks yet. She really should go fuck herself for that attack. I'm about totally off her as somebody I support. Her record of dishonesty is growing by the month, and she's lost the benefit of the doubt from me.

It came out recently that she fund raised in a very similar way as a Senator. For example participants in one fund raiser receiver over $1,000 in gifts each after a fancy dinner. Hypocrite.

Gaven Newson also said when asked about this phony controversy that 100s of Democrats have done fund raisers in that exact wine cave, or whatever the fuck it is. So Pete is getting roasted for using a popular fund raising venue used by the party. Unreal.

And I totally agree with you. Warren is imploding. Side note, I always liked Klobachar but she did great the other night. I think she could gain momentum if Pete continues getting slammed. And like you I’m a fan of Pete but I’m kind of ok with that. Klobachar is legit imo with a great resume and I think she’d crush Trump in the mid west.

 

[Phisher]

Looking at the results from the viewer survey, it was Warren who came out on top of that. That bothers me, because she was exposed for such deep and disgusting hypocrisy on that issue, but somehow was still viewed sympathetically, while Pete got his lowest marks yet. She really should go fuck herself for that attack. I'm about totally off her as somebody I support. Her record of dishonesty is growing by the month, and she's lost the benefit of the doubt from me.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Yea I was aware of the older. I think a lot of posters here forget about that when they wonder why certain issues don’t move forward faster like weed.

Also why candidates who they and everyone they know dislike are doing so well (Biden specifically).

 

[jrams]

Nah not quite to that degree yet. But I'm making the correlation because Pete was quite strong and Warren was quite weak that night, they had the fieriest exchange and their ratings went opposite ways.

We must have watched different debates if you concluded Pete was strong.

 

[Lead]

Also why candidates who they and everyone they know dislike are doing so well (Biden specifically).

Yea, I’ve mentioned older and black voters have stuck with Biden which seems to be the more moderate part of the base also. Unless he loses support there, I don’t see how anyone could have a chance.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Also why candidates who they and everyone they know dislike are doing so well (Biden specifically).

Do you think Bernie can increase sub 50k voter turn out, and or have the same kind of success with the 50-200k bloc?

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Yea, I’ve mentioned older and black voters have stuck with Biden which seems to be the more moderate part of the base also. Unless he loses support there, I don’t see how anyone could have a chance.

If I'm remembering correctly, the primary schedule for 2020 has about 75% of the votes In by mid March, which leads itself to having less drop outs. I think the amount of candidates in will split the moderate vote which could benefit Sanders. But Im probably way off on that view.

 

[Lead]

If I'm remembering correctly, the primary schedule for 2020 has about 75% of the votes In by mid March, which leads itself to having less drop outs. I think the amount of candidates in will split the moderate vote which could benefit Sanders. But Im probably way off on that view.

Who knows. California is probably going to end or extend the race. If Biden were to win that after SC, I don’t see how it would continue on that competitively. If Bernie did, then we possibly could have 3-4 candiates with an early state win.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Who knows. California is probably going to end or extend the race. If Biden were to win that after SC, I don’t see how it would continue on that competitively. If Bernie did, then we possibly could have 3-4 candiates with an early state win.

Pete is going to have early momentum. I don't how much that will carry over.

 

[Fawlty]

It came out recently that she fund raised in a very similar way as a Senator. For example participants in one fund raiser receiver over $1,000 in gifts each after a fancy dinner. Hypocrite.

Gaven Newson also said when asked about this phony controversy that 100s of Democrats have done fund raisers in that exact wine cave, or whatever the fuck it is. So Pete is getting roasted for using a popular fund raising venue used by the party. Unreal.

And I totally agree with you. Warren is imploding. Side note, I always liked Klobachar but she did great the other night. I think she could gain momentum if Pete continues getting slammed. And like you I’m a fan of Pete but I’m kind of ok with that. Klobachar is legit imo with a great resume and I think she’d crush Trump in the mid west.

Yeah Klobuchar pissed me off by being super condescending but I do like her for the most part. I'd be okay if her name made it into the mix. Her biggest problem is that she's a total raging bitch, but that's not a deal-breaker for me when she's good with policy.

ed: the example of her from the debate was the "bigger fish to fry" comment where she took him so completely and obviously out of context that she should have been booed off the stage. The only way a comment that false and shitty will fly is if people are anticipating it, if they want to hear it. It was just a totally dishonest bullshit comeback by her, and she knew it. She resorted to an act of dishonesty because she was on the back foot. Pete has never done anything like that afaik.

 

[Fawlty]

We must have watched different debates if you concluded Pete was strong.

Yeah I think the Dem rubes and some others really ate up the women attacking Pete. Not sure exactly why. It wasn't very good offense. Once he became the early state front-runner, the knives came out. But the vitriol seems lame and unnecessary.