International Who do West European governments stimulate mass immigration ?

[plataoplombo]

I mean looking at birth rates some kind of cultural shift is coming at some point simply because locals do not make kids.What this will lead to i have no clue.In my country estimation is about 100 years until non foreign background people are a minority.

Dunno about rest of west europe

Btw west europe is not only one who has to deal with this, in russia this is a bigger thing than west

Immigration or declining birth rates?

 

[cooks1]

No one ever wants to bite the bullet and deal with population decline. Most economic systems are based on indefinite growth. Tons of pressure to keep immigration high. People who employ low skill workers for cheap want a surplus. This keeps costs low. This includes all of the old people who vote and want $10/hr asswipers.

you also have your bleeding heart crowds.

Well put. Consistent population decline will throw a real monkey wrench into socio-economic models that are predicated upon growth. Immigration is the only reason the US is not a 3rd world shithole right now. Our birth rate has been below replacement level for 50 years.

@Kaybee was quite astute in mentioning that America is fortunate in having fairly compatible immigrants in close proximity. That is a real bonus.

Without population growth, there are only 2 options. Take more or give less. In about 70-80 years, population decline will be global. Countries will be trying out for immigrants. Unless we are able to develop a truly resource based economy, I would not be surprised to see countries start building walls to keep people in as opposed to out.

 

[SanchoMF]

Because their birth rates are declining and they need to sustain their taxable populace to maintain their entitlement programs and pensions. Problem with Europe is that their closest neighbors that they can draw immigrants from are pretty culturally incompatible. At least in America most of the immigrants are from the Western hemisphere and have many cultural similarities (though we still bitch about the differences anyways lol)

Pretty much true and it's a goddamn travesty.

 

[ElKarlo]

I like how Hungary has helped with policies to increase their birth rate, leftists still complained. "Nothing stops this train" is their way of thinking.

Yeah they didn’t even like how Hungary was trying. It’s all very strange and really gets into CT fast unfortunately

 

[evansusmc2]

People bring up low birth rates a lot but I always wondered if they ackowledged that problem then why aren’t they encouraging and giving incentives for young people to have more babies?

There was a government incentive for having kids in Japan when I was there back in 2006. Not sure if it's still in place though. Probably is.

"Kinder geld" (sp?) was in place while I was in Germany in 2010 - 2012. If a German woman has a kid she'll get extra money from the government each month til the kid is 18. If a non German woman has a kid on German on German soil she will not get kinder geld. And her baby won't even be granted automatic citizenship.

 

[dragonsfly]

I am from West Europe and there are not as many immigrants as people like to mention..The EU example has like 4 to 5% immegrants out of closely 500m population that lives in west europe.. It is like around 18-19m out of 500m.. It is not as significiant as people make it out to be if you look at it pragmatically from numbers point of view...

Also another factor to mention here is that the EU stopped taking immegrants the Danes did it since before 2011 and the remaining followed suit the only two that didn't were Germany and Swedan but even they have now closed nobody takes anyone currently except Canada because it needs people badly... It has huge land it needs labor and people... The last two west European countries shout there doors back in 2018-19 ish if memory serves me right the only open place is Canada..

The immegration age ended back in 2017 officially and we won't see any immigration for atleast for the next 2-3 decades...

 

[Social Warlord]

In Canada it's all about votes and creating a totalitarian one party state: https://forums.sherdog.com/posts/165502867/

Canadians do not want so much immigration.

As Ottawa prepares to ramp up immigration post pandemic, Canadians are divided over target levels - Angus Reid Institute

Canadians split on issue of immigration, survey finds | CBC News
A new survey has found half of Canadians want to see the number of immigrants coming to Canada lowered.


Even the Natives are getting pissed off
Year-long Six Nations protest forces cancellation of major development in Caledonia, Ont. | CBC News

 

[MicroBrew]

They have no choice in the matter

 

[Sketch]

RunThisShit#4836

 

[Sketch]

 

[MicroBrew]

RunThisShit#4836

I don't get it.

 

[58miles]

There was a government incentive for having kids in Japan when I was there back in 2006. Not sure if it's still in place though. Probably is.

"Kinder geld" (sp?) was in place while I was in Germany in 2010 - 2012. If a German woman has a kid she'll get extra money from the government each month til the kid is 18. If a non German woman has a kid on German on German soil she will not get kinder geld. And her baby won't even be granted automatic citizenship.

Japan trying to incentivize having more children obviously failed because their birthrate didn't increase at all. You cannot simply bribe people into having more children.

 

[Denter]

I never understand the need to couch this conversation as something that it is not. You have the "Those people aren't good enough to live among us" crowd vs. the "Those people are good enough to live among us" crowd. The rest of it is just the smokescreen so that the first crowd can say what they think without openly copping to the opinion.

But the game must be played so...

Western governments encourage immigration because they recognize the importance of seeking out and soliciting new people to join their nation. These new people bring new ideas which can stimulate innovation and development and stave off the stagnant regression of a society. Some people only measure the value and development of a society as technological innovation but it takes much more than that to have a thriving society. Music, literature, the arts, etc. are as important as technology for a healthy and happy population.

And since we don't have a crystal ball, we cannot predict which specific immigrant will provide which specific addition to a nation. Western Governments recognize that this is far superior than watching their populations shrink and their development stagnate because they're recycling the same old ideas.

We see what happens when population groups are closed off, intentionally or accidentally, physically and intellectually from outside peoples. You wake up 500 years from now killing animals with blow darts and wondering if an airplane is your sky god coming to punish you, lol.

In truth, you can look at failing birth rates and ask yourself an honest question: Does this decline suggest that the society is fundamentally flawed in some way? And if you answer "yes" to that question then immigrants might be a way to arrest or even reverse some of those flaws.

There will be many exciting opportunities in the future- many, if not most of the people coming here are less liberal (in the old sense) than the people who are already here. There will be a great deal of hay to make.

 

[SanchoMF]

I never understand the need to couch this conversation as something that it is not. You have the "Those people aren't good enough to live among us" crowd vs. the "Those people are good enough to live among us" crowd. The rest of it is just the smokescreen so that the first crowd can say what they think without openly copping to the opinion.

But the game must be played so...

Western governments encourage immigration because they recognize the importance of seeking out and soliciting new people to join their nation. These new people bring new ideas which can stimulate innovation and development and stave off the stagnant regression of a society. Some people only measure the value and development of a society as technological innovation but it takes much more than that to have a thriving society. Music, literature, the arts, etc. are as important as technology for a healthy and happy population.

And since we don't have a crystal ball, we cannot predict which specific immigrant will provide which specific addition to a nation. Western Governments recognize that this is far superior than watching their populations shrink and their development stagnate because they're recycling the same old ideas.

We see what happens when population groups are closed off, intentionally or accidentally, physically and intellectually from outside peoples. You wake up 500 years from now killing animals with blow darts and wondering if an airplane is your sky god coming to punish you, lol.

In truth, you can look at failing birth rates and ask yourself an honest question: Does this decline suggest that the society is fundamentally flawed in some way? And if you answer "yes" to that question then immigrants might be a way to arrest or even reverse some of those flaws.

This is so utopian BS in this post but knowing the at you happen to be an American from a well off family with leanings to the left you rather focus on the utopia rather than the harsh reality.

 

[evansusmc2]

Japan trying to incentivize having more children obviously failed because their birthrate didn't increase at all. You cannot simply bribe people into having more children.

oohhh true. Never said it was successful. There is a disturbingly high % of Japanese men that are scared of their own shadows and don't approach women anymore.

I got an old high school buddy that is 40 yrs old and kinda looks like a troll. He has been living in Japan since 2008. Because of the massive amount of females that give it up to him he never wants to leave. He said since Japanese "went all hikkikamori" all the Japanese chicks are just trying to get what they can.

 

[Rand M Arthur]

To brain drain Africa and Asia, to prop up public pensions, and to create a loyal voting bloc.

 

[Rand M Arthur]

Because their birth rates are declining and they need to sustain their taxable populace to maintain their entitlement programs and pensions. Problem with Europe is that their closest neighbors that they can draw immigrants from are pretty culturally incompatible. At least in America most of the immigrants are from the Western hemisphere and have many cultural similarities (though we still bitch about the differences anyways lol)

The latino population in Europe is actually steadily growing. Mainly, Brazilians, Argentinians, and Venezuelans.

 

[uppercutbus]

I got an old high school buddy that is 40 yrs old and kinda looks like a troll. He has been living in Japan since 2008. Because of the massive amount of females that give it up to him he never wants to leave. He said since Japanese "went all hikkikamori" all the Japanese chicks are just trying to get what they can.

Sounds like it would be an entertaining documentary, esp if true. <45>

 

[panamaican]

There will be many exciting opportunities in the future- many, if not most of the people coming here are less liberal (in the old sense) than the people who are already here. There will be a great deal of hay to make.

Sure, but that's a mixed bag. They will reinforce certain values that those on the right support while reinforcing certain values that those on the left support. They're generally speaking going to be against promiscuity, out of wedlock births and pro marriage. They'll also be in favor of diversity and broadening access. Everyone is going to get something they support and something they oppose.

 

[panamaican]

This is so utopian BS in this post but knowing the at you happen to be an American from a well off family with leanings to the left you rather focus on the utopia rather than the harsh reality.

Maybe the problem is that you're such a negative person you think everything that doesn't cosign your doomsday perspective is utopian bs.