International Who do West European governments stimulate mass immigration ?

Oceanmachine said:
Right wingers say that is happening in the west. Muslims being a majority isnt a bad thing I guess to you it is but not to God or the people who fail to ´´stop´´ it.
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He didn't say it was a bad thing, stop goal posting.
 
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JSN said:
No one ever wants to bite the bullet and deal with population decline. Most economic systems are based on indefinite growth. Tons of pressure to keep immigration high. People who employ low skill workers for cheap want a surplus. This keeps costs low. This includes all of the old people who vote and want $10/hr asswipers.

you also have your bleeding heart crowds.
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But the Western Euro government can provide financial and other incentives to increase birthrate though. W. Europe is pretty dam crowded as it is.
 
Humans are a resource.
If you don't have oil, you take oil from someone else's country.
If you don't have kids, you take kids from someone else's country.
 
Kaybee said:
Because their birth rates are declining and they need to sustain their taxable populace to maintain their entitlement programs and pensions. Problem with Europe is that their closest neighbors that they can draw immigrants from are pretty culturally incompatible. At least in America most of the immigrants are from the Western hemisphere and have many cultural similarities (though we still bitch about the differences anyways lol)
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yeah cause the first thing most migrants do when they come here is to start paying taxes. look at france, most of the migrants there are a net cost for the state.
 
Most developed nations (by no means limited to Western Europe) with below replacement fertility rates do in fact have programs to encourage people to have more kids. Typically as some form of middle class welfare. Some countries, such as Singapore, go even further. Doing their best to encourage marriage and childbirth with government run dating agencies and social mixers.
 
I don't think Americans here realise the severity of the issue.
There are neighborhoods in W Europe, police won't go anymore.

This will be a serious issue in 20 years,
when democracy isn't supported anymore but extremist religion is

Here a hidden camera of a French journalist going to a cafe in France

 
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They think Arabs and Africans can replicate the cheap labor force that People from Mexico, Central and South America have been providing in the US for 35 years.
 
JSN said:
No one ever wants to bite the bullet and deal with population decline. Most economic systems are based on indefinite growth. Tons of pressure to keep immigration high. People who employ low skill workers for cheap want a surplus. This keeps costs low. This includes all of the old people who vote and want $10/hr asswipers.

you also have your bleeding heart crowds.
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This as Eric Weinstein said the exhaust port of the USA is based on forever growth. Instead of dealing with stagnation or making it easier to have and raise kids, just import people Which has been show the have dire consequences in Europe and major US cities
 
I never understand the need to couch this conversation as something that it is not. You have the "Those people aren't good enough to live among us" crowd vs. the "Those people are good enough to live among us" crowd. The rest of it is just the smokescreen so that the first crowd can say what they think without openly copping to the opinion.

But the game must be played so...

Western governments encourage immigration because they recognize the importance of seeking out and soliciting new people to join their nation. These new people bring new ideas which can stimulate innovation and development and stave off the stagnant regression of a society. Some people only measure the value and development of a society as technological innovation but it takes much more than that to have a thriving society. Music, literature, the arts, etc. are as important as technology for a healthy and happy population.

And since we don't have a crystal ball, we cannot predict which specific immigrant will provide which specific addition to a nation. Western Governments recognize that this is far superior than watching their populations shrink and their development stagnate because they're recycling the same old ideas.

We see what happens when population groups are closed off, intentionally or accidentally, physically and intellectually from outside peoples. You wake up 500 years from now killing animals with blow darts and wondering if an airplane is your sky god coming to punish you, lol.

In truth, you can look at failing birth rates and ask yourself an honest question: Does this decline suggest that the society is fundamentally flawed in some way? And if you answer "yes" to that question then immigrants might be a way to arrest or even reverse some of those flaws.
 
ElKarlo said:
This as Eric Weinstein said the exhaust port of the USA is based on forever growth. Instead of dealing with stagnation or making it easier to have and raise kids, just import people Which has been show the have dire consequences in Europe and major US cities
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I don't think the claims of "good for economy, pay for our pensions, hard working" from the European military aged-male migrants has bore fruit. That was low-level snake oil. The "refugee fleeing war" has long stopped being a bullet point too, now it's just "let them in". Climate refugees is the next catalyst (recent thread on that).
 
Misanthropist said:
People bring up low birth rates a lot but I always wondered if they ackowledged that problem then why aren’t they encouraging and giving incentives for young people to have more babies?
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There has pretty much never been more incentive in our entire history to have kids.

Some people just don't want or need to have children.
 
ElKarlo said:
This as Eric Weinstein said the exhaust port of the USA is based on forever growth. Instead of dealing with stagnation or making it easier to have and raise kids, just import people Which has been show the have dire consequences in Europe and major US cities
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Tbh I think it’s almost everywhere.
 
panamaican said:
Does this decline suggest that the society is fundamentally flawed in some way? And if you answer "yes" to that question then immigrants might be a way to arrest or even reverse some of those flaws.
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It might also be a way of keeping the show going without ever addressing those fundamental flaws, until the well runs dry, that is.

I tend to think that these methods allow us to double down on failing ideas, just because they can be compensated for through other means, atleast for the time being (means which themselves bring about their own problems, that then have to be addressed with more bubblegum-fixes, creating more structure on top of structure). These failing ideas are then allowed to become part of our core "principles" even if they cannot actually be measured to have brought any value to anyone's life, if anything, the opposite having been observed.

The better approach would be to critically evaluate some of the ideas that have brought about the current, seemingly unsustainable society model, and abandon them, if deemed to be worthless, rather than cling onto them for sentimental value. This would lead to us eventually ridding ourselves of all the excess "fixes" and bloated bureaucracy that is required to support the current society model, which has quickly grown into something self-perpetuating and ever-escalating, showing no signs of stopping on that road. And hopefully, by some point in time, create something that is actually sustainable with the resources allocated to that particular region of the world, without needing to constantly borrow, or rather, steal, from elsewhere.

Cultivate the potential you have, instead of rendering it impotent, to the point where you're forced to look elsewhere for solutions.
 
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TheGreatA said:
It might also be a way of keeping the show going without ever addressing those fundamental flaws, until the well runs dry, that is.

I tend to think that these methods allow us to double down on failing ideas, just because they can be compensated for with other means (which themselves bring about their own problems, that then have to be addressed with more bubblegum-fixes, creating more structure on top of structure), atleast for the time being. These failing ideas are then allowed to become part of our core "principles" even if they cannot actually be measured to have brought any value to anyone's life, if anything, the opposite having been observed.

The better approach would be to critically evaluate some of the ideas that have brought about the current, seemingly unsustainable society model, and abandon them, if deemed to be worthless, rather than cling onto them for sentimental value. This would lead to us eventually ridding ourselves of all the excess "fixes" and bloated bureaucracy that is required to support the current society model, which has quickly grown into something self-perpetuating and ever-escalating. And hopefully, by some point in time, create something that is actually sustainable with the resources allocated to that particular region of the world, without needing to constantly borrow, or rather, steal, from elsewhere.
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I don't disagree with the core of your point. I was thinking it myself as I posed the question.

However, you're not going to force a system where the flaws have been developed and inculcated for hundreds of years by simply stepping on the brakes. The problem is that your native population can't bring a fresh perspective to the problem because it's the only perspective that they have even known. To stimulate the type of assessment that you'd need to drive the type of change we're talking about, you need people who haven't been absorbing the premise since birth. Those are the people whose varied perspectives will lead the native population to stop and ask themselves "Wait, why are we doing it this way? Maybe we need to reassess." And ideally, the 2 groups forge a better path going forward. Of course, we're measuring this in decades or generations, not in months or even short years.
 
uppercutbus said:
I don't think the claims of "good for economy, pay for our pensions, hard working" from the European military aged-male migrants has bore fruit. That was low-level snake oil. The "refugee fleeing war" has long stopped being a bullet point too, now it's just "let them in". Climate refugees is the next catalyst (recent thread on that).
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Yeah they haven’t and can’t even stick to their argument. It’s now appealing to people’s pity and shaming people who don’t want to be over run by third world POS
 
ElKarlo said:
Yeah they haven’t and can’t even stick to their argument. It’s now appealing to people’s pity and shaming people who don’t want to be over run by third world POS
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I like how Hungary has helped with policies to increase their birth rate, leftists still complained. "Nothing stops this train" is their way of thinking.
 
Because they don't want to pay a native $100 an hour to serve coffee or change a tire. Most Europeans only have 1.3 kids and are in decline and labor market would totally own capital market in such a situation. Also there are UN and EU treaties on refuges made post WW2 where millions died who were turned away. FDR even turned them away.
 
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