Opinion What do you really think about Trump and Musk?

[BlackStrap]

Background

I am Canadian, and I do not consume too much news. If I do, it is probably from the Economist. That said, I do not live in a box and I am well aware of what is going on around the world and especially in the United States.

I do not like the Democrats and the liberal elites, but I also do not like Republicans and libertarian capitalists.

Issue
I see that Trump managed to defeat Harris, and that he has Musk in the wings (or vice versa). I do not understand the appeal.

Musk is a tech billionaire nepo baby and Trump is a general nepo baby maybe billionaire (if he was not he will be soon).

They both talk about destroying the system, which I am supportive of, but I do not understand why anyone would support them doing it.

Root of Issue
The government is bad, and the vast majority of politicians are bad, but aren't Trump and Musk worse? Do they not represent the worst excesses of a broken system? Do individuals really believe that the mega rich want the fall of governmental regulation and taxation for the same reason that the working class (including white collar employees) may want it?

To reiterate- I am not arguing FOR the democrats, or liberal elites. I am asking what the attraction is towards Trump and Musk, who appear on all accounts to be much worse?

My problem with Trump and Musk can best be expressed by the old Churchill quote from 1947: “democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others that have been tried.”
In Trump I see ideations of fascism, i.e. strong centralized leadership mobilizing popularism for the perceived advancement of national or other idealistic advancements. - Trump has clearly shown the intention to operate autocratically- Jan 6, 2021 could easily have been a coup if people cooperated), oligarchs or plutocrats (Musk).

Conflating Issue
I also want to note that I do not think the issue is economic malaise. The US is overall doing better than ANY other country, both in overall wealth and in terms of individual wealth. Adjusted for inflation, families are richer now than they have ever been. This has been an upward trend that has been strong under both Democratic and Republican governments, to a greater or lesser extent. There seems to be a weak understanding that part of this wealth is artificially buoyed by an ungodly national debt load, but that has not translated to economic or social consequences. It may never.

My Opinion
I think their supporters are split between opportunists at the top- rich folk who see short term gain- and the rest of the base that feel like they will tear down the whole corrupt system represented by the current Democratic party and the old wing of the Republican party. Of those two parties, the rest of the base is mistaking the signals of small government for a deconstruction of the corrupt system when they are much more likely more the dismantalling of checks and balances for the centralized non-governmental power, i.e. plutocrats and oligarchs.

Can someone "unfuck me" and explain the situation? While it makes sense to me, I doubt that the majority of voters are just being bamboozeled. I think there is something I am missing out in my self-admittedly media thin environment.

Lastly, please try and avoid ad hominems. I am not a libtard. I am thoroughly progressive, insofar as it means advancement and improvement. I am thoroughly conservative, insofar as it means conserving valuable and useful ideas/norms, technology, etc. I am thoroughly liberal insofar as it means advancing individual freedom, etc. I am absolutely not right or left alighned and I am absolutely not a liberal, capitalist, communist, sociolist, or any stupid catch-all that would attempt to pigeon-hole me in a club for the sole purpose of opposing another club. So, miss me with that, I want to talk about the issues and CHANGE my understanding. Cheers.

Oh, and I get Sherdog is a weird place to do that. It's literally my only social media!

 

[I Am Legion]

I think Trump is a low quality human. He is jerky and can be mean. But he is exactly what we need after the last 4 years of nonsense. He isn't influenced by future votes at this point, nor money. He can and will drain the swamp. He will be better economically and will fix the border mess as well as get rid of migrants that should not be here. The handling of this mass immigration was awful with news now that thousands of children are missing, and Boston housed Migrant kids in hotels with sex offenders. Not to mention hardened criminals and gangs let in. Liberalism is dying and he is the face of the people that have had enough. He would not be here if not for the hyper liberal left that have screwed us over and continue to do so. We can thank Biden, Kamala, the AOCs, the Newsome's for this jerks win.

Musk is a brilliant, but flawed guy. Simple as that. Ground breaking accomplishments, quirky personality. He is another that saw the harm the left has done and now the left have turned. But his brilliance is not to be debated. He created video games at 12. Co founded Pay Pal. Now has reinvented travel, including, Space Travel.

 

[SKYNET]

Background
I am Canadian...

families are richer now than they have ever been

I live in the United States. Every single person in my immediate family and closest circle of friends all agree this is by far and away the tightest spot we've all been in economically, throughout our lifetimes, both individually and as a collective.

Once you can move past this line of thinking, however you decide to preface that notion, will be the first time any one of us (my friends and family) will take you seriously.

 

[Spam On Rye]

Eggs are $9 where I live but don't worry, Musk is gonna save us with Indians who shit in the street.

 

[syct23]

Eggs are $9 where I live but don't worry, Musk is gonna save us with Indians who shit in the street.

I love to watch those cooking videos, but I believe it is pronounced as “Curry”..

 

[chardog]

belongs in war room, where ill informed people are loudest with their takes.

 

[Phlog]

The appeal of trump is that he is a political outsider.

The appeal of Musk is that he is incredibly effective at organising a production line and solving problems. He is also an advocate for humanity and is prepared to lose money and break eggs to forward the project.

Neither of them are easily controlled and the world of politics has been a run by special interests for some time. The public basically said we prefer these oligarchs to the ones who have been in charge till now.

It's not facism but protectionism, unless you want to say America is fascist, which is an argument people have made.

Harris was a military industrial complex alphabet candidate, easily beaten.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

The appeal of trump is that he is a political outsider.

The appeal of Musk is that he is incredibly effective at organising a production line and solving problems. He is also an advocate for humanity and is prepared to lose money and break eggs to forward the project.

Neither of them are easily controlled and the world of politics has been a run by special interests for some time. The public basically said we prefer these oligarchs to the ones who have been in charge till now.

It's not facism but protectionism, unless you want to say America is fascist, which is an argument people have made.

Harris was a military industrial complex alphabet candidate, easily beaten.

Musk is pals with my president Milei.

I'm not very well informed.. but what I understand is that Musk is supposedly on charge of cutting the fat out of the murican state.. which is the same here Milei and his team did here and got amazing results

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

 

[khukurikoo]

The appeal is he is Obama 2.0 marketed to the middle class complete with catch phrases. Says all the right things, and then excuses for why he can't follow through. Yet people's faith in him doesn't waver. Typical politican. Typo intentional.

Musk is another mega rich guy with a questionable history that goes from college grad to multi-millionaire without a lot of details. I believe these people are chosen and groomed for their positions and financed by powerful backers.

Right vs Left seems like 2 groups of people all sinking in quicksand arguing over whose quicksand is worse. Multi-national corporations getting more wealth while the quality of life for most of us declines seems to be the only constant.

 

[Natural Order]

How is this still alive in the Berry?

 

[Squintz]

WTF is this. Move this shit to the War Room.

 

[5crew]

belongs in war room, where ill informed people are loudest with their takes.

I actually hope this thread remains here. War Room is too much. Maybe Mayberry can have a more open approach.

I'm a Singaporean, as a non-US citizen my view is similar to OP.

I dislike Demo because they pushed DEI way overboard. I have over the years believe that all movements started with good intentions but soon turn to shit. Things like #metoo, gender equity and all were good, at first. Then the idea just became a tool for people to empower themselves and turned to shit. People should be hired for their capabilities NOT to fill demographic in ratios. If a trans-black-queer man that identify as a cactus is a good CEO, I'll say let the cactus do the job. Don't hire a straight-1/8caucasian1/8brown3/4asian-woman that have mixed parents to fill the role just to "represent".

But I do think their politics of healthcare/insurance for citizens seems good, because I think US medical bills are insane. I don't know the details, so correct me if I'm wrong.

As for Republican, I think banning abortion is fuking insane! imo, Trump is a straight businessman. He will do what's right for him and fellow big corporate companies and make every CEO richer but not really for the commoners. The tax cut seems to be well-liked but I don't understand why. Seems like crap decision in the long run, but people see hey, less money to the government, yay? If the tax are put into good use like better education system, cheaper healthcare, shit just tax the top 1% more. But Trump won't do that to his buddies.

Trump however is a fuking "nutjob" that will deter other countries leaders doing stupid shit. That in a way is a good thing I guess. In all my investment group chats, they love Trump as POA again, because everyone know/believe with him up there, it's almost a gurantee that we will make a killing in investments. But is money everything? not to me actually. They also love Trump because he is exciting, not knowing what he will say on social media the next hour. But imho, a World leader shouldn't be "exciting". But that's just me.

Medias are now so biased that we don't know if news we receive are indeed fact, which makes it so difficult to really know if what I believe is true, is indeed true. So above is strictly just my opinion. Everyone seems to think the other side are the dumb ones, but imo statistically there couldn't be so many dumb people in either side. US citizens are definitely seeing the benefit of choosing the side they did, but unfortunately they are made to fight against each other.

EDIT:
TLDR, have fun staying poor.

 

[SKYNET]

Musk is pals with my president Milei.

I'm not very well informed.. but what I understand is that Musk is supposedly on charge of cutting the fat out of the murican state.. which is the same here Milei and his team did here and got amazing results

I ended up in conflict with other posters pretty rapidly in a thread about Milei's accomplishments sometime last year. Mind you, I did not profess to his successes nor his failures, I only asked questions regarding his methods. Of course I stood on the virtues of having alternate political parties (we only have 2 choices, 3rd 4th and 5th do not exist in the USA)

 

[Osculater]

The messiah and the apostle

 

[fica]

Trump is grifter musk is user so it will be terrible

 

[SalvadorAllende]

I ended up in conflict with other posters pretty rapidly in a thread about Milei's accomplishments sometime last year. Mind you, I did not profess to his successes nor his failures, I only asked questions regarding his methods. Of course I stood on the virtues of having alternate political parties (we only have 2 choices, 3rd 4th and 5th do not exist in the USA)

Feel free to ask me whatever you want. I voted for the guy but I'm not religious about him or his party.

What questions about his methods did you have?

 

[SKYNET]

Feel free to ask me whatever you want. I voted for the guy but I'm not religious about him or his party.
What questions about his methods did you have?

I dont remember the details but my interest in Milei is always how he was able to gain support as a Libertarian candidate. In US we are herded like sheep into left or right, conservative or liberal, I am particularly disillusioned with both parties here in my country and "libertarian" is generally a bad word on either side. Im sure there is a growing sentiment here now that is similar to Argentina prior to Milei and I am curious how to take advantage

 

[GolovKing]

I personally don't think that musk is a very trustworthy guy and has his own motives. They both are probably using each other at this point but Elon is a much smarter guy and probably more cunning as well

 

[aerius]

They're both shitbags. Egotistical attention whoring blowhard shitbags. We already know what Trump is gonna be like from his first term, he's gonna talk big and flap his mouth all over the place and his retarded followers will cheer it on and go "please sir, can you piss in my face some more?" when he fails to deliver and rubs his balls in their faces. As for Musk, this is a man who made his fortune by swindling the government and sucking up to anyone he thinks can help out his businesses with more subsidies & preferential treatment. Tesla and SpaceX would not exist without countless billions in government & industry subsidies & tax credits, Tesla for much of its existence made most of its revenue from collecting & trading carbon credits along with various other subsidies, SpaceX isn't as bad but it wouldn't exist either without all the subsidies it collected. Musk is a hell of a PR salesman and he has a vision for space, but he's just another oligarch who doesn't give a shit about the people or the country as evidenced by his love of H1Bs.

And yet, they're still better than the Dems. Which is almost unbelievable, the current US policymakers are all such utter trash that GWB almost looks competent.