International US intelligence : Wuhan lab workers were sick in Autum 2019

Obviously this is a very long piece, but reading it quickly, I dont believe that it overcomes the scientific refutations to a lab origin, namely that there is no evidence of manipulation in the genetic sequence of sars-cov-2, and the differences between it and the known virus with highest sequence match occur in a manner typical of natural viral evolution. This suggests that, despite the means to potentially create something like a sars-cov-2 in a lab by the various methods that the article decribes, in this instance, the evidence doesnt support such a scenario, and hence why I would suggest that such claims often draw on indirect evidence to bolster the case.

It escaped the lab.

It may not have been created there, but it most definitely escaped that lab
 
It was actually created in Canada and a sample was "obtained" by some Chinese "exchange students" and released in Wuhan. Whether or not that was deliberate and where else it was leaked around the world was not known. It's quite possible that it was released everywhere in a coordinated spread to begin the great reset.
 
The virus was already spreading in the US by November 2019
The news was 4 months behind reporting it.

Actually, my local news was calling it a contagious pneumonia.
 
Obviously this is a very long piece, but reading it quickly, I dont believe that it overcomes the scientific refutations to a lab origin, namely that there is no evidence of manipulation in the genetic sequence of sars-cov-2, and the differences between it and the known virus with highest sequence match occur in a manner typical of natural viral evolution. This suggests that, despite the means to potentially create something like a sars-cov-2 in a lab by the various methods that the article decribes, in this instance, the evidence doesnt support such a scenario, and hence why I would suggest that such claims often draw on indirect evidence to bolster the case.
To the best of my knowledge I have not heard of a consensus in the scientific community claiming this virus absolutely could not have been altered in a lab. I am aware some scientists say it wasn't but not aware of there being a consensus.

The article states : Baker goes even further, speculating that the reason this virus is similar to many previously discovered viruses but not quite the same is that it may have been altered through gain-of-function experiments.

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Recent WSJ article on possibility of virus being man made and escaping the lab.

The World Needs a Real Investigation Into the Origins of Covid-19

A team of WHO researchers has arrived in China but won’t investigate the possibility that the coronavirus originated in a lab.


In the first week of January, scientists representing the World Health Organization (WHO) were due to arrive in China to trace the origins of Covid-19. The team membership and terms of reference were preapproved by the Chinese government, yet at the last minute Beijing denied entry to the investigators. This prompted WHO to take the rare step of criticizing China, which relented and allowed the group to enter the country this week.

Given that Chinese authorities have been slow to release information, penalized scientists and doctors who shared clinical and genomic details of the novel coronavirus, and have since demonstrated a keen interest in controlling the narrative of how the virus emerged, this is not a promising foundation for WHO’s investigation.

Dr. David Relman of Stanford University, who raised the possibility early on that the virus might have leaked from a lab, told us: “Based on the scant information that has been shared publicly about the WHO investigation, it doesn’t appear that WHO has adequately represented the range of views and perspectives of key stakeholders or incorporated all needed forms of expertise.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-wo...tion-into-the-origins-of-covid-19-11610728316
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Why has China been soo secretive and refused international attempts to discover the origins of the virus? WHO was shilling for China and their investigation will not be through, yet China still feared having them on the ground asking questions
 
To the best of my knowledge I have not heard of a consensus in the scientific community claiming this virus absolutely could not have been altered in a lab. I am aware some scientists say it wasn't but not aware of there being a consensus.

The article states : Baker goes even further, speculating that the reason this virus is similar to many previously discovered viruses but not quite the same is that it may have been altered through gain-of-function experiments.

--

Recent WSJ article on possibility of virus being man made and escaping the lab.

The World Needs a Real Investigation Into the Origins of Covid-19

A team of WHO researchers has arrived in China but won’t investigate the possibility that the coronavirus originated in a lab.


In the first week of January, scientists representing the World Health Organization (WHO) were due to arrive in China to trace the origins of Covid-19. The team membership and terms of reference were preapproved by the Chinese government, yet at the last minute Beijing denied entry to the investigators. This prompted WHO to take the rare step of criticizing China, which relented and allowed the group to enter the country this week.

Given that Chinese authorities have been slow to release information, penalized scientists and doctors who shared clinical and genomic details of the novel coronavirus, and have since demonstrated a keen interest in controlling the narrative of how the virus emerged, this is not a promising foundation for WHO’s investigation.

Dr. David Relman of Stanford University, who raised the possibility early on that the virus might have leaked from a lab, told us: “Based on the scant information that has been shared publicly about the WHO investigation, it doesn’t appear that WHO has adequately represented the range of views and perspectives of key stakeholders or incorporated all needed forms of expertise.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-wo...tion-into-the-origins-of-covid-19-11610728316
--

Why has China been soo secretive and refused international attempts to discover the origins of the virus? WHO was shilling for China and their investigation will not be through, yet China still feared having them on the ground asking questions

Whether or not there is a consensus, the more plausible explanation lies in a natural emergence as far as Im concerned. If the scientific arguments for a lab origin were more convincing, I'd go with that explanation, but the case for a lab origin seems to be bound by a collection of circumstantial considerations -some true, some false and some unverifiable. Whether or not it is technically possible, I have not come across a piece of scientific evidence or reasoning that stands out as showing the lab origin of this virus; rather, the opposite appears to be more likely. The gain of function experiment gone awry scenario you are proposing is not plausible to me, as this would depend on the manipulation of a known virus, most likely sars-cov, on which coronavirus gain of function experiments had been conducted. Both this and the other closer sequence matching virus RaTG13 are too genetically distant to have served as a template for sars-cov-2, which rules out this explanation of origin. Short paper explaining this.

I will agree with you on the obstruction shown by Chinese towards the WHO mission -this is very unfortunate and does not do their international reputation much good -but i doubt they care.
 
Whether or not there is a consensus, the more plausible explanation lies in a natural emergence as far as Im concerned. If the scientific arguments for a lab origin were more convincing, I'd go with that explanation, but the case for a lab origin seems to be bound by a collection of circumstantial considerations -some true, some false and some unverifiable. Whether or not it is technically possible, I have not come across a piece of scientific evidence or reasoning that stands out as showing the lab origin of this virus; rather, the opposite appears to be more likely. The gain of function experiment gone awry scenario you are proposing is not plausible to me, as this would depend on the manipulation of a known virus, most likely sars-cov, on which coronavirus gain of function experiments had been conducted. Both this and the other closer sequence matching virus RaTG13 are too genetically distant to have served as a template for sars-cov-2, which rules out this explanation of origin. Short paper explaining this.

I will agree with you on the obstruction shown by Chinese towards the WHO mission -this is very unfortunate and does not do their international reputation much good -but i doubt they care.

Why a lab escape is the most plausible scenario .

- There are 2 government funded Bio labs in Wuhan, both studying bat coronavirses
- This virus has been especially infections among humans. There plenty of other bat related virsus but none this infectious.
- Labs all over the world carry out gain of function experiments.
- There have been accidental escapes of viruses in countries, the UK and Germany are 2 examples.
- The Chinese themselves have admitted the wet market in Wuhan is not the origin of the virus
- China has been extremely secretive and thwarted attempts by international scientists to explore its origin

Note : a lab escape does not imply this was a malicious release or a bio-weapon, it merely means this was a gain of function experiment that escaped containment.

--

Here's what I feel happened :

One of the 2 labs was messing around with a bat coronavirus to consider hypothetical worst case scenarios. The virus escaped containement. The staff and leadership at the lab kept quiet , hiding the accident from the central government authorities. Eventually the central government found out but had to hide the truth, fearing damage to China's image, possible culpability suits , loss of face, lack of confidence in China's attempt to market itself as a modern , competent 1st world nation.

--

The people suspecting this was a lab escape or at the very least considering a lab escape as very possible are not just amateur sleuths and politicisn, there are scientists in this group.

In November, however, in the journal PNAS, Dr. Relman wrote that Dr. Andersen’s argument didn’t acknowledge that unpublished viruses closely related to SARS-CoV-2 could have been studied in a laboratory. For more than a decade, Dr. Shi has been publishing experiments on “chimera” coronaviruses, built by inserting parts of newly found viruses into better known viruses to understand how novel viruses could infect human cells. These were used to assess the risk that such viruses could spill over into humans.

The ability to build coronavirus genomes without leaving traces of manipulation has existed for years. Dr. Ralph Baric of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, a world-leading coronavirus expert and collaborator of Dr. Shi, told an Italian television documentary last June, “In sequence databases there were sequences for a large number of bat coronaviruses that were SARS-like, reported out of China.” He added that “whether the virus existed beforehand, it would only be within the records of the Institute of Virology in Wuhan.”
 
People had cold and flu symptoms during cold and flu season, apparently that’s the story? The note “both covid-19 and common seasonal illness” should be the dead giveaway that they’re not making a very strong case.
 
Why a lab escape is the most plausible scenario .

- There are 2 government funded Bio labs in Wuhan, both studying bat coronavirses
- This virus has been especially infections among humans. There plenty of other bat related virsus but none this infectious.
- Labs all over the world carry out gain of function experiments.
- There have been accidental escapes of viruses in countries, the UK and Germany are 2 examples.
- The Chinese themselves have admitted the wet market in Wuhan is not the origin of the virus
- China has been extremely secretive and thwarted attempts by international scientists to explore its origin

Note : a lab escape does not imply this was a malicious release or a bio-weapon, it merely means this was a gain of function experiment that escaped containment.

--

Here's what I feel happened :

One of the 2 labs was messing around with a bat coronavirus to consider hypothetical worst case scenarios. The virus escaped containement. The staff and leadership at the lab kept quiet , hiding the accident from the central government authorities. Eventually the central government found out but had to hide the truth, fearing damage to China's image, possible culpability suits , loss of face, lack of confidence in China's attempt to market itself as a modern , competent 1st world nation.

--

The people suspecting this was a lab escape or at the very least considering a lab escape as very possible are not just amateur sleuths and politicisn, there are scientists in this group.

In November, however, in the journal PNAS, Dr. Relman wrote that Dr. Andersen’s argument didn’t acknowledge that unpublished viruses closely related to SARS-CoV-2 could have been studied in a laboratory. For more than a decade, Dr. Shi has been publishing experiments on “chimera” coronaviruses, built by inserting parts of newly found viruses into better known viruses to understand how novel viruses could infect human cells. These were used to assess the risk that such viruses could spill over into humans.

The ability to build coronavirus genomes without leaving traces of manipulation has existed for years. Dr. Ralph Baric of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, a world-leading coronavirus expert and collaborator of Dr. Shi, told an Italian television documentary last June, “In sequence databases there were sequences for a large number of bat coronaviruses that were SARS-like, reported out of China.” He added that “whether the virus existed beforehand, it would only be within the records of the Institute of Virology in Wuhan.”

This is largely speculative and I have already explained why such gain of function experiments are not a plausible explanation for sars-cov-2.
 
The gov of New York ironical blames European travelers for the spread of the virus in NY. And in Feb 2020 called it a European Virus. While giving a brief to reporters.

New Yorkers did that shit to themselves. They were traveling all over and completely did not give a fuck in the early going of the spread.
 
To the best of my knowledge I have not heard of a consensus in the scientific community claiming this virus absolutely could not have been altered in a lab. I am aware some scientists say it wasn't but not aware of there being a consensus.

The article states : Baker goes even further, speculating that the reason this virus is similar to many previously discovered viruses but not quite the same is that it may have been altered through gain-of-function experiments.

--

Recent WSJ article on possibility of virus being man made and escaping the lab.

The World Needs a Real Investigation Into the Origins of Covid-19

A team of WHO researchers has arrived in China but won’t investigate the possibility that the coronavirus originated in a lab.


In the first week of January, scientists representing the World Health Organization (WHO) were due to arrive in China to trace the origins of Covid-19. The team membership and terms of reference were preapproved by the Chinese government, yet at the last minute Beijing denied entry to the investigators. This prompted WHO to take the rare step of criticizing China, which relented and allowed the group to enter the country this week.

Given that Chinese authorities have been slow to release information, penalized scientists and doctors who shared clinical and genomic details of the novel coronavirus, and have since demonstrated a keen interest in controlling the narrative of how the virus emerged, this is not a promising foundation for WHO’s investigation.

Dr. David Relman of Stanford University, who raised the possibility early on that the virus might have leaked from a lab, told us: “Based on the scant information that has been shared publicly about the WHO investigation, it doesn’t appear that WHO has adequately represented the range of views and perspectives of key stakeholders or incorporated all needed forms of expertise.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-wo...tion-into-the-origins-of-covid-19-11610728316
--

Why has China been soo secretive and refused international attempts to discover the origins of the virus? WHO was shilling for China and their investigation will not be through, yet China still feared having them on the ground asking questions


I think this point is important.

When the outbreak first hit, we were bombarded with calls that "100% certainty, this did not come from a lab and you are a CT if you believe anything else".

But, we were also bombarded with "it was a weapon that China made, that's why...".

People (including scientist) dug their heals in. Therefore, we lost months of investigation.
 
Are bats and humans the only mammals that migrated on all six inhabited continents on their own?


I say 'on their own' because mice and rats hitched a ride with humans.

If so, I wonder how often we have diseases jumping between us.
 
New Yorkers did that shit to themselves. They were traveling all over and completely did not give a fuck in the early going of the spread.
I thought it was due to the US closing our borders from China, so wealthy Chinese citizens took flights to Europe and then flew to the US.
 
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