UFN 141 : A Case Study in Why UFC Matchmakers Suck

Hmm, i agree on The Reem matchup, but Blaydes vs Ngannu its clear the UFC wants Ngannu wearing gold, thats why this matchup was perfect for them. Ngannu commin out vs a guy he beat in a smaller arena with less preassure on Ngannu.
Perfect matchmakin, Ngannu is back and will be booked a big fight next, catching for UFC
 
Both Pavlovich and Blaydes were favored over guys coming off bad losses.

Blaydes was a slight favorite over Reem and dominated him earlier in the year. He likely
took the Ngannou rematch to avenge a loss.

It seems like you're more upset with the results than the matchmaking.
 
While I was always far more of a PRIDE fan in the early to mid 2000s, I was consistently impressed with the job that Joe Silva, the then UFC matchmaker, did. The matches were always sensible, frequently intriguing, and would work in building up a new star regardless of who won.

After taking a break from seriously following MMA, I return earlier this year to find that Joe Silva has retired and been replaced by Sean Shelby and Mick Maynard. I wanted to give them a chance, but after the most recent event, it's clear that they're the Dumb and Dumber of MMA, and at least slightly responsible for the UFC's current woes.

Consider the two main events, shall we?

First up we have Sergey Pavlovich versus Alistair Overeem. Pavlovich is the biggest prospect in all of heavyweight MMA and a potential future world champion. He is big, powerful, moves well, strikes beautifully, and is difficult to take or keep down.

So what do you do? Do you match him up with a mid-level, name fighter that accenuates his strengths and allows him to get a highlight reel knockout in his debut?

Of course not! You match him up with Alistair Overeem, a danger to Pavlovich since he brings a very similar skillset to the table. It's classical lose-lose booking here.

Overeem wins, and so what? After brutal knockout losses to N'Gannou and Blaydes, a win over a new guy only proves that he isn't completely washed up, nothing more. No one is clamoring to see Overeem fight for a title thanks to this win.

Meanwhile, you've derailed a huge prospect in Pavlovich in a major way. If he does become a big star eventually, the early knockout loss to a very past his prime Overeem will be used to discredit him for years to come.

But what if Pavlovich had won? Would it have given him THAT much steam to destroy N'Gannou's and Blaydes' leftovers? Not really. Not any more than if he had beaten a far friendlier match-up in an Arlovski or Oleynik, for instance. Meanwhile, a third straight loss would have completely killed Overeem as any kind of significant name.

Let's move on to the main event, which is even worse.

On the one hand, you have Curtis Blaydes, a guy who was either the top contender for the heavyweight crown, or second after Miocic. A heavily hyped, respected guy that Cormier had paid massive respect to and said he would have defended against if he wasn't retiring at 40.

So what do you do? Why, place him in match-up against a faded, enigmatic contender who is a uniquely bad match-up, and had already beaten him once before.

If Bladyes wins, it does nothing for him. He is no closer to the belt, and N'Gannou would be dismissed as a flawed headcase.

But if Blaydes loses, which happened, he is knocked off as a serious contender and can't easily get back there. Nor can he be easily promoted in that role even if he comes back and wins his next few, as many will dismiss him due to being beaten not once, but twice by N'Gannou.

As if knocking off an excellent contender isn't bad enough, it doesn't do THAT much more for N'Gannou, either. Were N'Gannou to lose, he would be completely dead as a contender. That wouldn't exactly be fair given the tough opponents and stylistic match-ups he faced this year, and that none of them finished him.

But with N'Gannou winning, he is STILL a win or two away from contendership. And it only proves that he has Bladyes' number, not that he has figured out his problems and is once again a force.

TLDR version-

The two main fights were lose-lose for the organization, as opposed to the win-win scenarios Joe Silva would regularly make. You knocked off the best, most interesting title contender at heavyweight AND the hottest prospect in heavyweight MMA on the same night, and got little to nothing for it in return.

Take a bow, Dumb and Dumber. Take a bow.


A rare good thread.

Well done, TS.

I agree. Poor matchmaking has been a problem.
 
T/S is a dumbass typical MMA fan that thinks he know the sport but really doesn't. I know Joe Silva and Sean Shelby personally, 2 great guys. Both of them said mma is such a great sport, but it's very unfortunate that MMA fans are the dumbest fans out of all sports fans. They both said they've been getting tons of ignorant fans emailing them and complaining about their matchmaking for years, so many idiot fans claim they can do a better job, etc etc. Seriously though, typical dumbass MMA fans need to chill. You dorks are making our sport look bad.
 
T/S is a dumbass typical MMA fan that thinks he know the sport but really doesn't. I know Joe Silva and Sean Shelby personally, 2 great guys. Both of them said mma is such a great sport, but it's very unfortunate that MMA fans are the dumbest fans out of all sports fans. They both said they've been getting tons of ignorant fans emailing them and complaining about their matchmaking for years, so many idiot fans claim they can do a better job, etc etc. Seriously though, typical dumbass MMA fans need to chill. You dorks are making our sport look bad.


Dumbest? Are you kidding?

NASCAR fans? Football fans?

Every sport has fans where they think they can do better than professionals.

Pretty common occurance.
 
Dumbest? Are you kidding?

NASCAR fans? Football fans?

Every sport has fans where they think they can do better than professionals.

Pretty common occurance.
But mma fans take it to a whole new level when it comes to being a dumbass fan. Both Joe Silva and Sean Shelby said they wish their emails isn't flooded with dumbass fans trying to tell them how to do their job.
 
Both Pavlovich and Blaydes were favored over guys coming off bad losses.

Blaydes was a slight favorite over Reem and dominated him earlier in the year. He likely
took the Ngannou rematch to avenge a loss.

It seems like you're more upset with the results than the matchmaking.

Putting a young prospect against someone as dangerous as Overeem in his very first fight in the UFC is ridiculous. There is just no reason for that.

As a rule, you do not match up relatively young prospects against one another. That's common knowledge. Doing it the first time when Ngannou only had one early loss and Blaydes was undefeated was already very bad matchmaking. Setting it up again for absolutely no reason, when Blaydes was on a good win streak and Ngannou had lost his last two fights was indefensibly stupid. It doesn't matter who was favored, you don't risk giving a fighter with a bright future in his division two losses to someone who is also going to be in that division for a long time, unless it's absolutely the only fight that makes sense or it's for a belt.
 
In what universe is Curtis Blaydes the most interesting contender? Dude has the personality of a wall and a boring style, glad he got TKOd, Francis vs Volkov or JDS is a much better fight than Blaydes vs either of them.
 
Intriguing read, but I had no problem with the match-ups. Pavlovich will learn a lot from the loss, still has a great record, and is young...he'll have an opportunity to bounce back and redeem himself with his next fight. It was a good wake-up call for him, and I'm sure that he and his team were thrilled that they had this opportunity to fight a top guy. Overeem needed a lower-level fighter match-up to get his confidence back, to let everyone know that he's still one of the elite. Many of his fans were doubting that. So, I'm sure that Overeem and his team were thrilled by the match-up as well.

Blaydes/Ngannou - Good for Ngannou, going in there with some added confidence, knowing that he already beat the guy. Good for Blaydes, having a chance for a big payback, which every fighter seems to want. Good for MMA fans, getting an opportunity to watch style vs. style at the highest level. Didn't turn out to be much of a watch, but that's the unpredictable nature of MMA fighting for you. It was still an exciting albeit very brief fight.

The fights were good in themselves but they did absolutely nothing to move the division forward.

Blaydes, the only true contender, dropped his position. Ngannou got some of his shine back and is still unreliable and 1-2 in the last 3. Russian prospect got derailed and Overeem brings nothing new to the table. That's dumb and lazy matchmaking.
 
While I was always far more of a PRIDE fan in the early to mid 2000s, I was consistently impressed with the job that Joe Silva, the then UFC matchmaker, did. The matches were always sensible, frequently intriguing, and would work in building up a new star regardless of who won.

After taking a break from seriously following MMA, I return earlier this year to find that Joe Silva has retired and been replaced by Sean Shelby and Mick Maynard. I wanted to give them a chance, but after the most recent event, it's clear that they're the Dumb and Dumber of MMA, and at least slightly responsible for the UFC's current woes.

Consider the two main events, shall we?

First up we have Sergey Pavlovich versus Alistair Overeem. Pavlovich is the biggest prospect in all of heavyweight MMA and a potential future world champion. He is big, powerful, moves well, strikes beautifully, and is difficult to take or keep down.

So what do you do? Do you match him up with a mid-level, name fighter that accenuates his strengths and allows him to get a highlight reel knockout in his debut?

Of course not! You match him up with Alistair Overeem, a danger to Pavlovich since he brings a very similar skillset to the table. It's classical lose-lose booking here.

Overeem wins, and so what? After brutal knockout losses to N'Gannou and Blaydes, a win over a new guy only proves that he isn't completely washed up, nothing more. No one is clamoring to see Overeem fight for a title thanks to this win.

Meanwhile, you've derailed a huge prospect in Pavlovich in a major way. If he does become a big star eventually, the early knockout loss to a very past his prime Overeem will be used to discredit him for years to come.

But what if Pavlovich had won? Would it have given him THAT much steam to destroy N'Gannou's and Blaydes' leftovers? Not really. Not any more than if he had beaten a far friendlier match-up in an Arlovski or Oleynik, for instance. Meanwhile, a third straight loss would have completely killed Overeem as any kind of significant name.

Let's move on to the main event, which is even worse.

On the one hand, you have Curtis Blaydes, a guy who was either the top contender for the heavyweight crown, or second after Miocic. A heavily hyped, respected guy that Cormier had paid massive respect to and said he would have defended against if he wasn't retiring at 40.

So what do you do? Why, place him in match-up against a faded, enigmatic contender who is a uniquely bad match-up, and had already beaten him once before.

If Bladyes wins, it does nothing for him. He is no closer to the belt, and N'Gannou would be dismissed as a flawed headcase.

But if Blaydes loses, which happened, he is knocked off as a serious contender and can't easily get back there. Nor can he be easily promoted in that role even if he comes back and wins his next few, as many will dismiss him due to being beaten not once, but twice by N'Gannou.

As if knocking off an excellent contender isn't bad enough, it doesn't do THAT much more for N'Gannou, either. Were N'Gannou to lose, he would be completely dead as a contender. That wouldn't exactly be fair given the tough opponents and stylistic match-ups he faced this year, and that none of them finished him.

But with N'Gannou winning, he is STILL a win or two away from contendership. And it only proves that he has Bladyes' number, not that he has figured out his problems and is once again a force.

TLDR version-

The two main fights were lose-lose for the organization, as opposed to the win-win scenarios Joe Silva would regularly make. You knocked off the best, most interesting title contender at heavyweight AND the hottest prospect in heavyweight MMA on the same night, and got little to nothing for it in return.

Take a bow, Dumb and Dumber. Take a bow.
So UFC needs to cherry pick opponents for a fighter who is "supposed to becom a big star"? I thought Conor era was over.
This is supposed to be about who is the best fighter, not who has the biggest star potential.
I absolutely loved the matchmaking.
I hate the matchmaking that "make sense." I like the tournament mindset.
There shouldn't be protected "future contenders."
Blaydes needed to prove that he's a contender. Or do you think he should be given a title shot because cormier paid him respect?
Pavlovich is an undefeated newcomer. But this is not a minor league.
There shouldn't be an easy road for anyone in the UFC.
UFC is for fighters who believe they can be champions.
If you believe you're the best, then you need to take on anyone on your way up to the title shot, not expecting to be "guided" and given favorable stylistic matchups.
 
I agree with everything and sadly I get a bad feeling the same is about to happen to tai tuivasa. Although clearly past his absolute best, jds will most likely demolish this young man.he is being pushed too quickly.

I hate to say it but maybe mma could learn a thing or two from boxing with regards to building up prospects. Especially young ones.
 
if pavlovich were that good, he would have beaten overeem who is off the horsemeat and has been KO'ed 20 times in his career
 
Joe Silvas prime was when UFC had 4-20 events a year. Now they have 500 fighters under contract and 46 events a year or something.

For fans and media to argue matchmaking when we have 0 knowledge of contract details and what gos on behind the scence seems pointless. Joe Silva himself stated that he couldnt do hes job at the end becsuse more fighters declined fights, and UFC is forced to offer fighters fights every X month per contract, so a lot of matchmaking became basic math and has little to do with the ideal match ups. Sometimes I bet UFC has to call up unknown talent to debut in the UFC against a top 10 fighters to be able to offer that top 10 fighter a fight. UFC is not a small «family» business anymore where matchmaking is 100% about how the fighters match up against each other.

That's bullshit. Fighters shouldn't be allowed to decline fights, unless injured. Or at least declining a fight should get the UFC out of that clause in the contract that forces them to offer them another fight instead. Decline a fight? Fine, don't get another payday in at least 6 months or so. Makes you consider declining the next one.
 
Both matchups were fine

Blaydes had a bit of a 'sketchy' (Doctor stoppages are always lame) loss to Ngannou. He was supposed to avenge that and get the next title shot. This time he got stopped.


Pavlovich is supposed to be good and a win over Reem would have put him well inside the top 10. What if he would have lost to someone unranked or ranked 11-15?


Making fights isn't as easy as you think it is. It's not a video game. You have to offer up all kinds of matchups. Maybe guys ranked lower than Reem were offered Pavlovich but denied because they didn't want to lose to an unranked fighter and knew he was dangerous?
 
But mma fans take it to a whole new level when it comes to being a dumbass fan. Both Joe Silva and Sean Shelby said they wish their emails isn't flooded with dumbass fans trying to tell them how to do their job.


If that’s the worst part of their job, they have a fuckin comfy job.
 
mid level? lol
can't understand people wanting match makers to protect the fighters
If he can't beat overeem how is he supposed to beat the top 3 fighters?
 
T/S is a dumbass typical MMA fan that thinks he know the sport but really doesn't. I know Joe Silva and Sean Shelby personally, 2 great guys.

Prove that you know them personally, or shut up, lying clown.

kenpeters8 said:
Both of them said mma is such a great sport, but it's very unfortunate that MMA fans are the dumbest fans out of all sports fans.

Alas, with stupid asswipe losers like you playing pretend on the Internet, MMA does indeed have some phenomenally dumb fans.
 
UFc matchmaking is terrible for years now. They match up two boring ass wrestlers and then Dana is agnry when they shit the bed on the main card. Well duh, what do you expect.

There are so many amazing fights to make in the UFC but they keep making dumb ones.
 
Prove that you know them personally, or shut up, lying clown.



Alas, with stupid asswipe losers like you playing pretend on the Internet, MMA does indeed have some phenomenally dumb fans.
I must've got under your skin without even trying. Yup, exactly. MMA is full of retarded fans like you. I don't have to prove shit to nobody. If u don't want to believe it, that's your fucking problem, not mine. Hahaha
 
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