International Trump: US will take over Gaza, resettle Palestinians

[kflo]

Well if you're gonna occupy someplace you should probably not pick forces (or not lead with) that are going to be immediately hated before they even start. So I'd personally recommend picking from any of the hundreds of other countries.

Like I said, not giving Gazans a seat at the table for their own future is insanely dumb.

Maybe they get a seat at the table when they are deciding where they want to end up……..

But it’s pretty funny insisting that it’s dumb to not give Hamas a seat at the table…..

 

[avenue94]

Maybe they get a seat at the table when they are deciding where they want to end up……..

But it’s pretty funny insisting that it’s dumb to not give Hamas a seat at the table…..

I didn't say it had to be Hamas. Just Gazans or someone that can represent a large enough chunk.

At any rate, feel free to point to this long record of successful occupations and reconstructions that font involve local buy in. Just give me a few, should be easy cuz your plan is so smart I'm sure.

 

[kflo]

I didn't say it had to be Hamas. Just Gazans or someone that can represent a large enough chunk.

At any rate, feel free to point to this long record of successful occupations and reconstructions that font involve local buy in. Just give me a few, should be easy cuz your plan is so smart I'm sure.

Feel free to point to a record of success in a similar situation.

Again, give gazan’s a choice of where they want to end up…..

I have a Palestinian in my team. He lives in New York area and his family is happy.

 

[avenue94]

Feel free to point to a record of success in a similar situation.

Again, give gazan’s a choice of where they want to end up…..

I have a Palestinian in my team. He lives in New York area and his family is happy.

Ireland. Japan. Germany. There aren't many successes, but there are many more failures -- both have common themes.

 

[kflo]

Ireland. Japan. Germany. There aren't many successes, but there are many more failures -- both have common themes.

Um, I said similar situations. Can you try again?

 

[avenue94]

Um, I said similar situations. Can you try again?

Why are they too dissimilar?

 

[DoctorTaco]

That has nothing to do with whether gazan’s can immigrate to other countries

Respectfully (I mean that) don’t understand how they can immigrate.

So if John Q. Palestine wants to leave their country (which is roughly the size of Philly), how does he do it? He can’t jump an airplane, the roads are blocked by an occupying military force, Israel won’t let them in, and up until two weeks ago neither would Egypt.

So even if they secure a visa and an invitation from another country (good luck when the internet is being cut off by Israel) how can they physically get to a port if egress?

The process of procuring all the documents, paying for them, and then navigating the hundreds of literal road blocks and check points is such an overwhelming and overbearing experience it is by all rights, impossible.

 

[Hog-train]

They are LITERALLY officially labeled refugees by the UN. I think it’s a bullshit label myself. But the UN insists, as do they.

That's a technicality because almost all Palestinians are refugees - because they mostly all lost their homes during the 1948 conflict. But they lost their homes in Mandatory Palestine.

Gaza and the West Bank were part of Mandatory Palestine. You're acting like they're from some far away place and they're foreign refugees there. They're literally from there.

And how is he going to execute this plan? You make it seem as if trump presents fully formed ideas.

I already showed you the NY Times article. He's already pressuring and threatening Jordan and Egypt to take in the Palestinians. Then Israel can easily just transport all the Palestinians out of Gaza.

They should be open to taking in gazans. At minimum the ones who want to leave.

They should take in Palestinians who want to leave. They currently don’t.

Why the hell should Egypt and Jordan take in 2 million refugees? Why is it their responsibility?

What a joke.

And you’re of course ignoring the fact that trump often starts at one extreme as a negotiation tactic. And it’s almost impossible to know when it’s a tactic or a promise.

But it’s almost certain in the end the US will not be behind a violent ethnic cleansing campaign.

The US doesn't need to be behind a violent cleansing campaign. Because the violence has already happened over the last two years.

Any additional fighting can be handled by Israel alone with ease.

This is ALSO what was said by the administration:

Rubio on Wednesday: “In the interim, obviously, people are going to have to live somewhere while you’re rebuilding it. It is akin to a natural disaster. What he very generously has offered is the ability of the United States to go in and help with debris removal, help with munitions removal, help with reconstruction — the rebuilding of homes and businesses and things of this nature, so that then people can move back in.”

Leavitt on Wednesday: “The president has made it clear that they need to be temporarily relocated out of Gaza.”

Yea I don't believe them at all. Zero chance Israel would agree to Palestinians coming back to Gaza after it's rebuilt. And if you actually believe that, you're naive as hell.

But you're not being naive. You're just being dishonest. Even you don't believe that BS.

If they are all violently displaced then yes. Again, I don’t think they will be and you’re raging about it now as if Israel has done it (it’s TRUMP’S idea).

They don't need to be violently displaced for it to be ethnic cleansing. If they blockade and starve them out or leave them no choice but to flee, that's still ethnic cleansing.

and lol at ME changing the question. How many times have I asked you if “would you be against giving gazan's the option to move to other nations who agree to take them in and give them citizenship?” without an answer?

I already answered you. People are free to do what they want if it's willingly, but I highly doubt all 2 million are willing to lose their homes.

Israel doesn't have a great track record with Palestinians losing their homes and being displaced.

And, at the end of the day, what matters most is the future of the people of Gaza and moving forward with hope and not violence.

The status quo ain’t working.

You do not give a fuck about the people of Gaza. You're a biased shill for Netanyahu's administration.

 

[pugilistico]

Who else foresees a future where Gazan militant groups based in Egypt and Jordan are formed? And they conduct terrorist attacks on Israel and/or cause instability in the countries they end up moving to. I have no idea what the answer is but this seems like a bandage.

 

[SuperAlly]

So they're not actively talking about ethnically cleansing the Palestinians from Gaza? Then what are they talking about right now then?

You have consistently said Israel will not ethnically cleanse Gaza in the past. You said the goal was to destroy Hamas and not ethnically cleanse.

Well Hamas is not destroyed and Israel and Trump are now talking about displacing the Palestinians and taking the land. That is the TEXTBOOK DEFINITION of ethnic cleansing.

You are laughable, you are making several presumptive and imaginary leaps forward in your head and then talking in absolutes as if they already have happened.

“This is the textbook definition of…”

Will you come back and hold your hands up when these things you gave imagined don’t happen. No. We know you won’t.

 

[SuperAlly]

Respectfully (I mean that) don’t understand how they can immigrate.

So if John Q. Palestine wants to leave their country (which is roughly the size of Philly), how does he do it? He can’t jump an airplane, the roads are blocked by an occupying military force, Israel won’t let them in, and up until two weeks ago neither would Egypt.

So even if they secure a visa and an invitation from another country (good luck when the internet is being cut off by Israel) how can they physically get to a port if egress?

The process of procuring all the documents, paying for them, and then navigating the hundreds of literal road blocks and check points is such an overwhelming and overbearing experience it is by all rights, impossible.

Respectfully, if it's impossible how is is already happening.

 

[SuperAlly]

That's a technicality because almost all Palestinians are refugees - because they mostly all lost their homes during the 1948 conflict. But they lost their homes in Mandatory Palestine.

Gaza and the West Bank were part of Mandatory Palestine. You're acting like they're from some far away place and they're foreign refugees there. They're literally from there.



I already showed you the NY Times article. He's already pressuring and threatening Jordan and Egypt to take in the Palestinians. Then Israel can easily just transport all the Palestinians out of Gaza.



Why the hell should Egypt and Jordan take in 2 million refugees? Why is it their responsibility?

What a joke.



The US doesn't need to be behind a violent cleansing campaign. Because the violence has already happened over the last two years.

Any additional fighting can be handled by Israel alone with ease.



Yea I don't believe them at all. Zero chance Israel would agree to Palestinians coming back to Gaza after it's rebuilt. And if you actually believe that, you're naive as hell.

But you're not being naive. You're just being dishonest. Even you don't believe that BS.



They don't need to be violently displaced for it to be ethnic cleansing. If they blockade and starve them out or leave them no choice but to flee, that's still ethnic cleansing.



I already answered you. People are free to do what they want if it's willingly, but I highly doubt all 2 million are willing to lose their homes.

Israel doesn't have a great track record with Palestinians losing their homes and being displaced.



You do not give a fuck about the people of Gaza. You're a biased shill for Netanyahu's administration.

They "mostly" all still live in the place they were from but are refugees...

 

[Hog-train]

They "mostly" all still live in the place they were from but are refugees...

Yea the ones that are inside Israel aren't technically refugees. Nice try though.

You are laughable, you are making several presumptive and imaginary leaps forward in your head and then talking in absolutes as if they already have happened.

“This is the textbook definition of…”

Will you come back and hold your hands up when these things you gave imagined don’t happen. No. We know you won’t.

If Trump institutes what he says he's going to do, that is ethnic cleansing.

 

[The_Renaissance]

Who else foresees a future where Gazan militant groups based in Egypt and Jordan are formed? And they conduct terrorist attacks on Israel and/or cause instability in the countries they end up moving to. I have no idea what the answer is but this seems like a bandage.

There's a reason the surrounding countries say FUCK NO to taking the Pallies in their borders - nothing but trouble. Jordan proves that the last time they tried opening up to the Pallies - they also proved that the only way to shut them down is through relentless brute force.

 

[kflo]

That's a technicality because almost all Palestinians are refugees - because they mostly all lost their homes during the 1948 conflict. But they lost their homes in Mandatory Palestine.

Gaza and the West Bank were part of Mandatory Palestine. You're acting like they're from some far away place and they're foreign refugees there. They're literally from there.

i am stating a fact that they are technically refugees even if they are in the place they were born or their families lived. they are refugees even if they live in foreign nations. they are a unique category in the world according to the UN.

I already showed you the NY Times article. He's already pressuring and threatening Jordan and Egypt to take in the Palestinians. Then Israel can easily just transport all the Palestinians out of Gaza.

they can "easily" do so? is that the plan or are you only, once again, quoting the parts that are convenient and you fill in the blanks with the evil israeli's then do shit.......

Why the hell should Egypt and Jordan take in 2 million refugees? Why is it their responsibility?

noone said egypt and jordan should take in 2m refugees, even though many of them were egyptian or jordanian. but the question is why are they NOT part of a solution? why is it ONLY israel's problem?

What a joke.



The US doesn't need to be behind a violent cleansing campaign. Because the violence has already happened over the last two years.

Any additional fighting can be handled by Israel alone with ease.

i don't even know what scenario you're inventing and pretending to be truth now.

Yea I don't believe them at all. Zero chance Israel would agree to Palestinians coming back to Gaza after it's rebuilt. And if you actually believe that, you're naive as hell.

But you're not being naive. You're just being dishonest. Even you don't believe that BS.

lol. and here you are again blaming israel for shit trump and his administration said and for shit that hasn't happened.

They don't need to be violently displaced for it to be ethnic cleansing. If they blockade and starve them out or leave them no choice but to flee, that's still ethnic cleansing.

and more blaming israel for shit that hasn't happened.

I already answered you. People are free to do what they want if it's willingly, but I highly doubt all 2 million are willing to lose their homes.

again, you keep repeating this. i've never said 2m would volunteer. many would. and it's pretty amusing that you guys have been calling gaza a horrific prison they can't leave, while also saying they have to stay and keep their homes.

and the point is they HAVEN'T been free to do what they want because noone has accepted them. and maybe that can change.

Israel doesn't have a great track record with Palestinians losing their homes and being displaced.

well, it's true that when israel wins wars started by their enemies their enemies tend to not have exactly what they started with. so unique to israel........

but you may want to look into the history of gaza...............

You do not give a fuck about the people of Gaza. You're a biased shill for Netanyahu's administration.

it's actually you that clearly doesn't give a shit about them. you'd rather they wallow in shit as long as you can blame israel for the shit. this is part of the ongoing problem. the conflict ensures israel's future is still not fully secure and the palestinian cause is the anchor that keeps that going. they are necessary pawns but a solution isn't wanted. gotta keep the dream alive.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Respectfully, if it's impossible how is is already happening.

By all rights. How many of the 2.1 million people want to leave? How many actually manage to make it happen? If something is 99.9% impossible, then let’s call it what it is

 

[kflo]

By all rights. How many of the 2.1 million people want to leave? How many actually manage to make it happen? If something is 99.9% impossible, then let’s call it what it is

you can't put that all on israel though.

and sounds like many people who claim to be on their side don't want them to leave...................

 

[DoctorTaco]

you can't put that all on israel though.

and sounds like many people who claim to be on their side don't want them to leave...................

I’m not sure what that second sentence is referring to, can you elaborate?

Israel blew up their infrastructure, occupied their land and choked their economy. I’d say they bear (bare?) the lions share (bears share) of the responsibility

 

[kflo]

I’m not sure what that second sentence is referring to, can you elaborate?

Israel blew up their infrastructure, occupied their land and choked their economy. I’d say they bear (bare?) the lions share (bears share) of the responsibility

they unilaterally withdrew from gaza 20 years ago (military forces withdrew 30 years ago) and then a terrorist group dedicated to eradicating israel was voted into, and took over control of gaza.

the 2nd sentence was referring to the fact that many pro-pal people are offended at the idea of other nations potentially opening their doors to take in palestinians.

 

[Hog-train]

i am stating a fact that they are technically refugees even if they are in the place they were born or their families lived. they are refugees even if they live in foreign nations. they are a unique category in the world according to the UN.

Who cares. Kind of irrelevant what they're technically classified as when they're from there.

they can "easily" do so? is that the plan or are you only, once again, quoting the parts that are convenient and you fill in the blanks with the evil israeli's then do shit.......

The entire article is about Trump threatening Jordan and Egypt to open their borders for Palestinians.

Noone said egypt and jordan should take in 2m refugees, even though many of them were egyptian or jordanian. but the question is why are they NOT part of a solution? why is it ONLY israel's problem?

Israel is the one occupying Gaza. Israel is the one who bombed it into rubble. Why the hell would dealing with that aftermath be Egypt and Jordan's problem?

lol. and here you are again blaming israel for shit trump and his administration said and for shit that hasn't happened.

I'm not allowed to criticize a plan that has been verbalized to all the media? I have to wait until it actually happens to say anything? That's stupid.

again, you keep repeating this. i've never said 2m would volunteer. many would. and it's pretty amusing that you guys have been calling gaza a horrific prison they can't leave, while also saying they have to stay and keep their homes.

How do you know many would voluntarily leave?

and the point is they HAVEN'T been free to do what they want because noone has accepted them. and maybe that can change.

Again, who the fuck is going to accept them. Why can't Israel accept the Palestinians "temporarily?"

well, it's true that when israel wins wars started by their enemies their enemies tend to not have exactly what they started with. so unique to israel........

Israel is literally the only country on the planet that has occupied a territory and people for over 50 years. That's certainly uniquely amoral and cruel.

I's actually you that clearly doesn't give a shit about them. you'd rather they wallow in shit as long as you can blame israel for the shit. this is part of the ongoing problem. the conflict ensures israel's future is still not fully secure and the palestinian cause is the anchor that keeps that going. they are necessary pawns but a solution isn't wanted. gotta keep the dream alive.

Nah I'd rather tens of thousands of them not be killed and then displaced from their homes.

I always knew from the beginning of this conflict that Israel just wanted to annex Gaza and throw all the Palestinians out. I've been saying it from the beginning in the Hamas thread.

And it's increasingly looking like that is what will happen.