International Trump: US will take over Gaza, resettle Palestinians

[lowlife]

this is nothing, you should see what we did to the native Americans. Step your game up Trump!

 

[DoctorTaco]

they unilaterally withdrew from gaza 20 years ago (military forces withdrew 30 years ago) and then a terrorist group dedicated to eradicating israel was voted into, and took over control of gaza.

the 2nd sentence was referring to the fact that many pro-pal people are offended at the idea of other nations potentially opening their doors to take in palestinians.

I think other nations taking in Palestinians would be wonderful, provided they are allowed back in and no one moves in and takes over their residence while they’re gone.

I would also think that the actions of Israel are the primary barriers for egress that I mentioned earlier

 

[kflo]

Who cares. Kind of irrelevant what they're technically classified as when they're from there.



The entire article is about Trump threatening Jordan and Egypt to open their borders for Palestinians.

Yet you are pulling the Israel bad card because trump threatened Jordan and Egypt.

And again, Egypt, Jordan and others SHOULD take in Palestinians. You should want them to as well if you indeed care about them.

Israel is the one occupying Gaza. Israel is the one who bombed it into rubble. Why the hell would dealing with that aftermath be Egypt and Jordan's problem?

Because they are a big part of the history, and because they claim to care.

I'm not allowed to criticize a plan that has been verbalized to all the media? I have to wait until it actually happens to say anything? That's stupid.

You aren’t criticizing the guy who came up with the plan and verbalized the plan. It’s just an opportunity for you to go on your usual Israel bad rants.

How do you know many would voluntarily leave?

I never said I know.

Again, who the fuck is going to accept them.

People who claim to care…..

Why can't Israel accept the Palestinians "temporarily?"

Because a lot of them want to murder Israelis?

Israel is literally the only country on the planet that has occupied a territory and people for over 50 years. That's certainly uniquely amoral and cruel.

Pure ignorance.

Nah I'd rather tens of thousands of them not be killed and then displaced from their homes.

Starting a war was a bad idea, agreed. Committing to do it over and over again probably makes it worse? Although you do claim Hamas achieved their goals…..

I always knew from the beginning of this conflict that Israel just wanted to annex Gaza and throw all the Palestinians out. I've been saying it from the beginning in the Hamas thread.

Yet this is trumps plan. And trump isn’t even saying Israel would control Gaza. But you don’t care.

And this conflict was initiated on 10/7 but a group of murderous thugs who run Gaza.

And it's increasingly looking like that is what will happen.

You’re pretending it’s already happened and Israel is the bad guy of course.

 

[Hog-train]

Yet you are pulling the Israel bad card because trump threatened Jordan and Egypt.

Any action by Trump has to be in conjunction with Israel. They're working in tandem. It would be impossible not to.

And again, Egypt, Jordan and others SHOULD take in Palestinians. You should want them to as well if you indeed care about them.

Explain why Egypt and Jordan have a responsibility to take in Palestinians when it is Israel that destroyed Gaza.

Because they are a big part of the history, and because they claim to care.

It's point blank Israel's responsibility. Not a completely unrelated country.

Because a lot of them want to murder Israelis?

Half the population are kids and the vast majority are just civilians.

Pure ignorance.

Name another country that has occupied a people's for 56 years.

Yet this is trumps plan. And trump isn’t even saying Israel would control Gaza. But you don’t care.

For Trump to institute his plan, Israel has to be involved. The US is not going to unilaterally act in Gaza and completely ignore Israel. Get real. They're going to do anything together.

And this conflict was initiated on 10/7 but a group of murderous thugs who run Gaza.

You’re pretending it’s already happened and Israel is the bad guy of course.

Israel helped create the conditions for this to happen as well as helping to keep Hamas afloat. We've already gone through this discussion multiple times.

 

[filthybliss]

Egypt is the only one that makes sense and I would support that I think, but Egypt doesn’t want the burden

Jared Kushner wants his penthouses there. It’s not happening.

The Trump and Netanyahu plan of ethnic cleansing seems more likely. It’s a bit odd that a lot of people that bitch and moan about Arab refugees “polluting” the west. Seem to be thrilled about creating a future refugee crisis. Not all of the Gazans are going to get dumped in Egypt and Jordan. Europe and North America will take the baggage too.

 

[Arashikage4Life]

Trail of Tears was great fun IIRC

 

[Cajun]

So they're not actively talking about ethnically cleansing the Palestinians from Gaza? Then what are they talking about right now then?

You have consistently said Israel will not ethnically cleanse Gaza in the past. You said the goal was to destroy Hamas and not ethnically cleanse.

Well Hamas is not destroyed and Israel and Trump are now talking about displacing the Palestinians and taking the land. That is the TEXTBOOK DEFINITION of ethnic cleansing.

What I'm hoping for is that Trump is forcing the hand of the Arab countries to help rebuild and help resolve the conflict. Egypt is meeting with Saudi in a week or two. Jordan has now visited.l the white house.... Lets see. But the Palestinians should be able to remain in Gaza full stop at the end of all of this. How does this look remains to be seen as they elected Hamas in the first place. Hopefully there is a good resolution. Israel cannot be trusted here. The US will have to push the concessions of the Arab countries on them.

 

[filthybliss]

What I'm hoping for is that Trump is forcing the hand of the Arab countries to help rebuild and help resolve the conflict. Egypt is meeting with Saudi in a week or two. Jordan has now visited.l the white house.... Lets see. But the Palestinians should be able to remain in Gaza full stop at the end of all of this. How does this look remains to be seen as they elected Hamas in the first place.

Most of the current population was not even alive when Hamas was elected. I don't think people should be punished for the voting decisions of their parents or grandparents.

Though, I agree with you otherwise. Gaza was completely dependent on foreign aid and Hamas has proven to be completely irresponsible with improving the living conditions and employment opportunies with it.I think the neighboring Arab Countries will need to pick up slack and work together with Israel+Abbas to help reorganize to stabilize Gaza with the Palestinians living there. I think an implented deradicalization curriculum is neccessary for the youth living there as well to establish a health equilibrium.

Two other elephants in the room is Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood in Iran. At the end of the day, Hamas is just a proxy for those two groups. They need to be dealt with too. Israel did a good job of extinguishing Hezbollah and Assad fell immediately afterwards. There is still some light at the end of the tunnel. I just don't think Netanyahu wants to fix it and I don't think Trump knows how too. I think its best for world to boot out Netanyahu as well. I think Lapid is a much more competent leader for Israel and he is a better-faith actor. Netanyahu only cares about him and him only.

Lapid says Netanyahu carrying out ‘planned, orchestrated attack’ against the press

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

i24NEWS

www.i24news.tv

 

[Cajun]

Most of the current population was not even alive when Hamas was elected. I don't think people should be punished for the voting decisions of their parents or grandparents.

Though, I agree with you otherwise. Gaza was completely dependent on foreign aid and Hamas has proven to be completely irresponsible with improving the living conditions and employment opportunies with it.I think the neighboring Arab Countries will need to pick up slack and work together with Israel+Abbas to help reorganize to stabilize Gaza with the Palestinians living there. I think an implented deradicalization curriculum is neccessary for the youth living there as well to establish a health equilibrium.

Two other elephants in the room is Iran and Muslim Brotherhood in Iran. At the end of the day, Hamas is just a proxy for those two groups. They need to be dealt with too. Israel did a good job of extinguishing Hezbollah and Assad fell immediately afterwards. There is still some light at the end of the tunnel. I just don't think Netanyahu wants to fix it and I don't think Trump knows how too.

It was '06 no? I had to go back and look because I didn't think I was that old. I'm not saying punish them as hamas kind of took over.

I don't know what to do with Iran at present. They do have a lot of civil unrest so I hope that helps get them straight.

Look I'm going to have to come down on my Israeli buds with Gaza and the West Bank. The ports of the Gaza are locked down as far as I know so there is no free trade. These places need to at least be able to trade with the arab countries that are already friendly with Israel. The palestinians need some investment from the Arab countries for education, trades and building a solid base to grow from. Thats why they survive by international aid and Israeli aid. They are kind of locked in. If Trump can get some cooperation from those Arab countries and make sure Israel holds then it might have a chance. I do agree that just having no real plan and thinking things will change won't work. A chance for making something more for your family will lower lots of the unrest imo. Economic chance at some stability.

 

[kflo]

Any action by Trump has to be in conjunction with Israel. They're working in tandem. It would be impossible not to.

there has been no actions taken by trump. only words. his words, his plan.

Explain why Egypt and Jordan have a responsibility to take in Palestinians when it is Israel that destroyed Gaza.

they don't have to. they should though, because the palestinian's were jordanians and egyptians. they also went to war with israel back in the day which is part of the history that created gaza and the wb.

It's point blank Israel's responsibility. Not a completely unrelated country.

well israel is not taking in palestinians.

Half the population are kids and the vast majority are just civilians.

you can't be arguing it would be safe for israel to take in palestinians........

Name another country that has occupied a people's for 56 years.

kurds say hi. tibet. lots of places simply displaced peoples and moved on. or disputes continue. kashmir region. hell, gaza was governed by egypt for 20 years until another lost war. jordan controlled the wb and even granted citizenship. until losing the same said war. israel has not occupied gaza for 56 years. there have been ethnic purges across the world. many permanent.

For Trump to institute his plan, Israel has to be involved. The US is not going to unilaterally act in Gaza and completely ignore Israel. Get real. They're going to do anything together.

did trump say israel gets gaza, which is what you are explicitly stating?

again, you are inventing shit just to rage against israel again.

Israel helped create the conditions for this to happen as well as helping to keep Hamas afloat. We've already gone through this discussion multiple times.

right, and the arab / muslim world did nothing to help create the conditions. hamas did nothing. terror attacks did nothing. wars did nothing. egypt and jordan did nothing.......just bad israel.....

 

[filthybliss]

It was '06 no? I had to go back and look because I didn't think I was that old. I'm not saying punish them as hamas kind of took over.

You are right. It was in 2006. Half of Gaza's inhabitants are under 18 though.

In Gaza, where nearly half of the population is under 18, a children's rights crisis is unfolding

The Defense of Children in Palestine has tracked dozens of deaths in Palestine as a result of airstrikes from Israel.

www.businessinsider.com

Look I'm going to have to come down on my Israeli buds with Gaza and the West Bank. The ports of the west bank are locked down as far as I know so there is no free trade. These places need to at least be able to trade with the arab countries that are already friendly with Israel. The palestinians need some investment from the Arab countries for education, trades and building a solid base to grow from. Thats why they survive by international aid and Israeli aid. They are kind of locked in. If Trump can get some cooperation from those Arab countries and make sure Israel holds then it might have a chance. I do agree that just having no real plan and thinking things will change won't work. A chance for making something more for your family will lower lots of the unrest imo. Economic chance at some stability.

The West Bank occupation and settlements are cruel and illegal. The settlements have been expanding since Eshkol. I really think the Obama approach of letting Israel deal with its troubles was a better idea than what Biden did especially with Netanyahu.

The aid sent towards Israel was totally unconditional to the point that it got ridiculous. I don't mind helping replenish the Iron Dome to protect Israeli Civilians. But we didn't need to send so much weaponry for a war that I don't think they had objectives for.

 

[Cajun]

You are right. It was in 2006. Half of Gaza's inhabitants are under 18 though.

In Gaza, where nearly half of the population is under 18, a children's rights crisis is unfolding

The Defense of Children in Palestine has tracked dozens of deaths in Palestine as a result of airstrikes from Israel.

www.businessinsider.com

The West Bank occupation and settlements are cruel and illegal. The settlements have been expanding since Eshkol. I really think the Obama approach of letting Israel deal with its troubles was a better idea than what Biden did especially with Netanyahu.

The aid sent towards Israel was totally unconditional to the point that it got ridiculous. I don't mind helping replenish the Iron Dome to protect Israeli Civilians. But we didn't need to send so much weaponry for a war that I don't think they had objectives for.

It's just the whole structure needs to change but it won't. I have Palestinian friends and visited in 99 to attend my friends sisters wedding. We stayed there for a week and the Israelis cut the water supply off over some political stuff. We had to pour bottled water over us to bathe and shit in a hole in the ground. There is a lot to unpack. The issue is both sides want the other out imo believing the land is theirs. Ultimately the Israelis have been there since just after WWII and have a claim. The Palestinians also have a claim. Funny how they live in relative harmony here in the states for the most part with the exception of recent events. I was able to attend Seeds of Peace conferences with my Palestinian bud where they bring youth together in the states from over there to discuss differences and interact. Got to know good peeps from both sides. That was back in the mid 2000s and looks like it hasn't helped yet. But liked the idea

 

[filthybliss]

kurds say hi. tibet. lots of places simply displaced peoples and moved on. or disputes continue. kashmir region.

The Kashmiri King acceded the region to India because Pakistan invaded them....The Hindu Population was nearly genocided. There were around 300,000 Kashmiri pandits at the time and now there are only 3,400 Kashmiri Hindus living in the region today...

So yeah, it is a completely different scenario than Gaza/West Bank. Neither of those regions were signed off to Israel.

A better example would be Cyprus and Turkey.

right, and the arab / muslim world did nothing to help create the conditions. hamas did nothing. terror attacks did nothing. wars did nothing. egypt and jordan did nothing.......just bad israel.....

I mean those countries took in a lot of Palestinian refugees. They are not building up settlements in the West Bank. They don't control the airspace, water, and electricity in Gaza. They didn't put the children in Gaza on a "diet" or distribute dirty water to fight Hamas....This shit is just objectively cruel and you can't seem to just deflect from it.

https://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/20140209_gaza_water_crisis

Israel used 'calorie count' to limit Gaza food during blockade, critics claim

Defence ministry files on 'avoiding' civilian malnutrition are proof Israel used food restrictions to hit Hamas, says Palestine group

www.theguardian.com

I do think @Hog-train is biased like you are though. Arafat played a huge role in the misery of the conditions that we see today. Him playing ball with Sadaam Hussein and trying to overthrow Jordan's dynasty should be addressed too. Arafat rejecting Clinton's sketches for a two state solution is a mistake that has haunted Palestinians for generations.

 

[filthybliss]

It's just the whole structure needs to change but it won't. I have Palestinian friends and visited in 99 to attend my friends sisters wedding. We stayed there for a week and the Israelis cut the water supply off over some political stuff. We had to pour bottled water over us to bathe and shit in a hole in the ground. There is a lot to unpack. The issue is both sides want the other out imo believing the land is theirs. Ultimately the Israelis have been there since just after WWII and have a claim. The Palestinians also have a claim. Funny how they live in relative harmony here in the states for the most part with the exception of recent events. I was able to attend Seeds of Peace conferences with my Palestinian bud where they bring youth together in the states from over there to discuss differences and interact. Got to know good peeps from both sides. That was back in the mid 2000s and looks like it hasn't helped yet. But liked the idea

It is a depressing situation. In the 90s, there was a genuine chance of a resolution. Rabin went down and things seemed to just get way worse from there onwards.

Anyways, did you visit Gaza or the West Bank? I honestly thought of visiting the Levant area in general.

 

[Hog-train]

there has been no actions taken by trump. only words. his words, his plan.

Yea they're just planning to. As I said repeatedly.

they don't have to. they should though, because the palestinian's were jordanians and egyptians. they also went to war with israel back in the day which is part of the history that created gaza and the wb.

Lying comes really easily to you, doesn't it? Palestinians are not Jordanians nor Egyptians. Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950, but they lost it again. Egypt just administered Gaza for a bit but the Palestinians there are not Egyptian.

well israel is not taking in palestinians.

So stop insisting other countries should then.

you can't be arguing it would be safe for israel to take in palestinians........

Half the population are literally kids. Why would it not be safe to take at least them?

You just don't want to because you want a demographic Jewish majority in Israel.

kurds say hi. tibet. lots of places simply displaced peoples and moved on. or disputes continue. kashmir region.

Kurds are just minority populations in several different countries. Tibet was annexed by China in 1951 and part of China. Kashmir is territory being fought over by India, Pakistan and China.

None of those are "occupied" territory.

hell, gaza was governed by egypt for 20 years until another lost war. jordan controlled the wb and even granted citizenship. until losing the same said war.

Yea I already said that. That doesn't somehow make the Palestinians there into Egyptians and Jordanians all of a sudden.

You're just conflating the two because you want to kick the Palestinians out into those countries.

israel has not occupied gaza for 56 years. there have been ethnic purges across the world. many permanent.

The Gaza Strip and West Bank have been occupied since 1967. So actually 58 years.

did trump say israel gets gaza, which is what you are explicitly stating?

again, you are inventing shit just to rage against israel again.

You're inventing shit I said. Stop repeatedly lying. Can't stand it.

I said Trump's plan for Gaza is clearly ethnic cleansing.

right, and the arab / muslim world did nothing to help create the conditions. hamas did nothing. terror attacks did nothing. wars did nothing. egypt and jordan did nothing.......just bad israel.....

This recent Gaza being turned into rubble had nothing to do with Egypt or Jordan. Both countries have had a peace treaty with Israel for decades already.

So fuck off with your lame attempt to lay blame on them and make them responsible for taking in the Palestinians.

 

[avenue94]

Most of the current population was not even alive when Hamas was elected. I don't think people should be punished for the voting decisions of their parents or grandparents.

Lot of former GW Bush voters oddly supportive of punishing Gazans for the votes of their relatives.

 

[Cajun]

It is a depressing situation. In the 90s, there was a genuine chance of a resolution. Rabin went down and things seemed to just get way worse from there onwards.

Anyways, did you visit Gaza or the West Bank? I honestly thought of visiting the Levant area in general.

Spent overall 19 days. The rest was in Egypt. We took a bus to jerusalem from cairo. This was all before we had cell phones etc so you just had maps. I saw the west bank (Jericho) from the road heading to the Dead Sea but that's it. Dead sea is in the israeli occupied west bank. My bud is from Bethlehem and so we spent most of our time there and the surrounding area like Jerusalem and countryside. His teenage cousin took us to the dead sea. I remember him going around check points and meeting us on the other side (we rented a car). Talk about scared of getting caught. Me and my best friend Jay were nervous as hell. It was my first trip anywhere and likely top 2 or 3 trips I've ever had. If you get a chance when this is over definitely go for a visit. Egypt is surreal as well.

 

[kflo]

Yea they're just planning to. As I said repeatedly.

trump came up with a plan that has no actual specificity or partners at the moment, and you are acting as if it's literally happening. "they" is trump.

Lying comes really easily to you, doesn't it? Palestinians are not Jordanians nor Egyptians. Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950, but they lost it again. Egypt just administered Gaza for a bit but the Palestinians there are not Egyptian.

many palestinian's migrated to "palestine" from jordan and egypt regions. and west bank palestinians were indeed jordanian's until jordan renounced them. and yes, gaza was under egypt control for 20 years but didn't grant full rights to them.

So stop insisting other countries should then.

they should. you don't seem to want them to. you're ok with them being stuck.

Half the population are literally kids. Why would it not be safe to take at least them?

so you want israel to take palestinian minors from their families?

You just don't want to because you want a demographic Jewish majority in Israel.

lol. it's not safe to do so. you know this is a truth. and yes, israel will stay majority jewish.

Kurds are just minority populations in several different countries. Tibet was annexed by China in 1951 and part of China. Kashmir is territory being fought over by India, Pakistan and China.

None of those are "occupied" territory.

List of territorial disputes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yea I already said that. That doesn't somehow make the Palestinians there into Egyptians and Jordanians all of a sudden.

well it did make them jordanians until they weren't.

You're just conflating the two because you want to kick the Palestinians out into those countries.

i, unlike you, want the people of gaza to have an opportunity to leave and make a better life for themselves if they so choose.

The Gaza Strip and West Bank have been occupied since 1967. So actually 58 years.



You're inventing shit I said. Stop repeatedly lying. Can't stand it.

I said Trump's plan for Gaza is clearly ethnic cleansing.

this is what you said:

"I always knew from the beginning of this conflict that Israel just wanted to annex Gaza and throw all the Palestinians out. I've been saying it from the beginning in the Hamas thread.

And it's increasingly looking like that is what will happen."

This recent Gaza being turned into rubble had nothing to do with Egypt or Jordan. Both countries have had a peace treaty with Israel for decades already.

So fuck off with your lame attempt to lay blame on them and make them responsible for taking in the Palestinians.

so the "occupation" since 1967 is just coincidentally the same year jordan and egypt waged war against israel and lost........

again, they don't HAVE to. noone has to do anything for them. do you WANT them to? seems like you don't. continued suffering of the people is fine as long as you can scapegoat israel. much better than working with neighboring states........

 

[kflo]

Lot of former GW Bush voters oddly supportive of punishing Gazans for the votes of their relatives.

you want to pretend those relatives aren't still in gaza? and who do you think makes up much of the hamas fighters today? they also didn't vote for hamas back in 2006. are they innocent?

noone wants to "punish gazan's for the votes of their relatives". but the consequences of "their relatives" voting for hamas are still real today. because that's why hamas is in power today.

and lol at speculating about gwb voters......

 

[kflo]

The Kashmiri King acceded the region to India because Pakistan invaded them....The Hindu Population was nearly genocided. There were around 300,000 Kashmiri pandits at the time and now there are only 3,400 Kashmiri Hindus living in the region today...

So yeah, it is a completely different scenario than Gaza/West Bank. Neither of those regions were signed off to Israel.

A better example would be Cyprus and Turkey.


I mean those countries took in a lot of Palestinian refugees. They are not building up settlements in the West Bank. They don't control the airspace, water, and electricity in Gaza. They didn't put the children in Gaza on a "diet" or distribute dirty water to fight Hamas....This shit is just objectively cruel and you can't seem to just deflect from it.

https://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/20140209_gaza_water_crisis

Israel used 'calorie count' to limit Gaza food during blockade, critics claim

Defence ministry files on 'avoiding' civilian malnutrition are proof Israel used food restrictions to hit Hamas, says Palestine group

www.theguardian.com

I do think @Hog-train is biased like you are though. Arafat played a huge role in the misery of the conditions that we see today. Him playing ball with Sadaam Hussein and trying to overthrow Jordan's dynasty should be addressed too. Arafat rejecting Clinton's sketches for a two state solution is a mistake that has haunted Palestinians for generations.

i don't deny that israel and israelis have been guilty of some bad shit. but don't just trust "critics". there's counter narratives for the food and water. even the food article states: "While the embargo crippled Gaza's economy, at no point did observers identify a food crisis developing in the territory, whose residents rely heavily on international food aid."

here's an admittedly biased source but presents some factual information on water. and we know hamas spent money and resources meant for infrastructure like water systems and built tunnels and purchased weapons instead.

Water Facts in the Conflict | StandWithUs

Water is a vital but sparse resource in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza. Though the Israeli-Palestinian Joint Water Commission was established in 1994 to foster cooperation and resolve disputes, water remains an outstanding issue in the conflict.

www.standwithus.com

and fighting hamas (or even neutralizing them) is not an easy puzzle. how do you deal with a neighbor like that?

i know this is israel's fight and not egypt or jordan's. but that doesn't mean egypt and jordan (and others) can't be part of the narrative going forward. they can be a great help. they need to sign up for it. this conflict has been too much rinse and repeat and escalation. new ideas are welcome. and people shouldn't just dismiss others playing a role because it's israel's problem. it's a problem.