International Belgian Police Arrest Israeli Soldiers, Interrogate Them Over Gaza War Crimes

[Siver!]

I will be first to admit I have limited knowledge on many topics and my criminal justice views are shaped by my experiences in US, specifically CA. If there are grounds(probable cause) to arrest someone for a very serious crime like murder then they typically stay jailed through the course of the trial/prosecution or at least there's a huge bail attached to release.

You asserted a huge allegation of war crimes and not only that there's video proof.

Imagine these guys killed someone on video or molested a child or something else insane...would you be saying the same thing?

This whole thing just stinks of politics and virtue signaling...

I mean, this might be out of your wheelhouse, but the UK has literally overseen a scandal this past few decades where Muslim phile rings weren't punished for many, many years because it wasn't politically desirable to hold them accountable.

So if you're somehow surprised that a European/Western nation could pretty much know for sure that a highly-politicized group of people were guilty of a crime but didn't want to prosecute, you're more naive than I ever thought.

I don't say that with any pride. The fact grooming gangs in the UK weren't dealt with at the time is a national disgrace and it's now difficult to fire-fight far right allegations that it's still ongoing (which I've seen no evidence of, and they never manage to present), just like this will be massively inconvenient in 20-30 years time when Israel has lost all support for it's genocidal ambitions and these assholes are hauled in front of the courts internationally (likely at the behest of a more moderate Israeli government willing to pay for it's sins, might I add).

 

[Devil's_Advocate]

I mean, this might be out of your wheelhouse, but the UK has literally overseen a scandal this past few decades where Muslim phile rings weren't punished for many, many years because it wasn't politically desirable to hold them accountable.

So if you're somehow surprised that a European/Western nation could pretty much know for sure that a highly-politicized group of people were guilty of a crime but didn't want to prosecute, you're more naive than I ever thought.

I don't say that with any pride. The fact grooming gangs in the UK weren't dealt with at the time is a national disgrace and it's now difficult to fire-fight far right allegations that it's still ongoing (which I've seen no evidence of, and they never manage to present), just like this will be massively inconvenient in 20-30 years time when Israel has lost all support for it's genocidal ambitions and these assholes are hauled in front of the courts internationally (likely at the behest of a more moderate Israeli government willing to pay for it's sins, might I add).

To me that's crazy.



Either prosecute, convict and imprison them or just wait until there's a process in place that allows for it. I don't understand the point of destroying people's reputations without the ability to criminally prosecute them. Is the real punishment to be judged by their community? Getting dirty looks?

We obviously differ in our views on this topic but if they are guilty with video evidence then feed them to the wolves I don't care. I want accountability for everyone, Palestinians and Israelis. My issue has always been one sided approach.

 

[Siver!]

To me that's crazy.



Either prosecute, convict and imprison them or just wait until there's a process in place that allows for it. I don't understand the point of destroying people's reputations without the ability to criminally prosecute them. Is the real punishment to be judged by their community? Getting dirty looks?

We obviously differ on our views on this topic but if they are guilty with video evidence then feed them to the wolves I don't care. I want accountability for everyone, Palestinians and Israelis. My issue has always been one sided approach.

I respect this reply, dude.

But I look at it this way: one cog in the machine thinks "let's investigate this, looks good", but the machine grinds to a halt for reasons.

We see it all the time.

Why did Belgium arrest these people? Probably because they had due cause. Why didn't Belgium prosecute these people? Well. I just don't think that's a mystery at all. It's not politically desirable.

 

[Devil's_Advocate]

I respect this reply, dude.

But I look at it this way: one cog in the machine thinks "let's investigate this, looks good", but the machine grinds to a halt for reasons.

We see it all the time.

Why did Belgium arrest these people? Probably because they had due cause. Why didn't Belgium prosecute these people? Well. I just don't think that's a mystery at all. It's not politically desirable.

I get all that but to me that's a cop out. If that's the case then weigh the political realities and make actions with them in mind. I don't like these pointless theatrics. They help no one. All they do is sow distrust.

In the mean time these men will probably leave for Israel and that will be that.

The Belgian government will continue selling their weapons to questionable governments and entities and the world will keep turning.

In the end this is all just empty posturing.

 

[Siver!]

I get all that but to me that's a cop out. If that's the case then weigh the political realities and make actions with them in mind. I don't like these pointless theatrics. They help no one. All they do is sow distrust.

In the mean time these men will probably leave for Israel and that will be that.

The Belgian government will continue selling their weapons to questionable governments and entities and the world will keep turning.

In the end this is all just empty posturing.

That's the long and short of it.

But the good thing is, someone, somewhere decided to take some action.

That it got overruled is another matter entirely.

The Belgian government will do whatever they're gonna do, I also hate empty posturing and the undeniable weakness of Western governments, but I love the fact an entire nation refuses to go in lock-step with the goose-steppers.

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

Belgium did some evil in africa too they can't be throwing stones from glass houses. I would actually bet they have slaughtered more people. They used to chop off limbs. I can't even post the pictures

Belgian colonial empire - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Is anyone who did that still alive?

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Those still defending this or who willfully insist on living in outright denial are the very worst people.

Those that openly don't care are slightly better, but not by much. At least they're not making excuses for it.

The pro Israel stance is extremely strange these days, difficult to understand it.

 

[WhitestKidU’Know]

Belgium did some evil in africa too they can't be throwing stones from glass houses. I would actually bet they have slaughtered more people. They used to chop off limbs. I can't even post the pictures

Belgian colonial empire - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Are they doing it currently? Stupid logic. Do we dig up the corpses of the people that committed those atrocities and throw them in prison?

 

[Jesus X]

I get all that but to me that's a cop out. If that's the case then weigh the political realities and make actions with them in mind. I don't like these pointless theatrics. They help no one. All they do is sow distrust.

In the mean time these men will probably leave for Israel and that will be that.

The Belgian government will continue selling their weapons to questionable governments and entities and the world will keep turning.

In the end this is all just empty posturing.

What is funny is that those very popular belgian FN herstal guns are probably going to countries committing some atrocities. They should just stop manufacturing arms if they wanted to virtue signal.

 

[WhitestKidU’Know]

People’s brains have become so rotted that being against genocide is virtue signaling. Was it virtue signaling to be against the Nazis during WW2?

Ohh thats right, it’s only virtue signaling when it’s directed towards brown people.

 

[avenue94]

I will be first to admit I have limited knowledge on many topics and my criminal justice views are shaped by my experiences in US, specifically CA. If there are grounds(probable cause) to arrest someone for a very serious crime like murder then they typically stay jailed through the course of the trial/prosecution or at least there's a huge bail attached to release.

You asserted a huge allegation of war crimes and not only that there's video proof.

Imagine these guys killed someone on video or molested a child or something else insane...would you be saying the same thing?

This whole thing just stinks of politics and virtue signaling...

Domestic law and international law are very different.

My assertion isn't guilty beyond reasonable doubt, I have no idea why you think my standards are legal standards. For example, deriving mens rea from just video isn't easy.

And yes, more or less. I'd hope they get detained and arrested, but abiding by international statutes and treaties doesn't always make that possible.

And virtue signaling or not, it's still a step forward and an important signal for Israel. For context, the Khmer Rouge trials ran well into the 21st century. Shit moves slowly.

 

[mraa1]

Why? Did they suspect the 2 soldiers were directly involved in a specific crime or this just typical euro self-wankery?

 

[PainIsLIfe]

1- Permanent residents are allowed to own guns.

2- Native Americans very clearly bought and were allowed to carry guns (there are exceptions, ie many states had laws against natives having guns during the Indian Wars).

As to the bolded part, this was because constitutionally, each tribe was a de facto sovereign nation. Hence the constitution didn't apply within their jurisdiction, anymore than it would apply in France. Obviously this isn't waht happened in reality.

3- And yet you're arguing that the 1A applies only to citizens, despite decades of history that says otherwise. I don't know how it can be any clearer: If the founders intended for the 1A to only apply to citizens, they would have used the word citizen, just like they did when describing the requirements to be US president.

4- Are you going to tell me that the 8th Amendment only applies to US citizens too while you're butchering basic civics?

1- Non-citizens (illegals) arent. Yet the same language "People" is used in both the 1st and 2nd.

2- The Duke law professor told you that Natives were not subjects of the Constitution. Now you're agreeing, after asking why they were allowed to own guns earlier.

3- No, I'm arguing that the framers didnt intend that using "people" vs "citizen" had any special meaning.

You said they intended everyone to have freedom of speech because they used people instead of citizen. I pointed out that People is used in the 2nd as well.

And FTR, slaves certainly weren't intended to have freedom of speech.

4- Are you making arguments up in your head? I was just pointing out that your statement was inconsistent, regardless of the later reasoning of courts.