The Dagestani Difference

[HuskySamoan]

No, it's not magical mountain genetics or superior discipline and focus (although those might help) the big reason these guys have been such a step ahead (and many weren't to be fair, many Abdulmanap sambo champs caught plenty of Ls) is because of their pedigree. Cory began kickboxing at 17 at a very casual gym, that was his first martial arts experience...Umar began wrestling around 8, by 11-12 he was competing in Muay Thai and made it to the juniors national tournaments in Russia. By 14-15 he was traveling out to Makhachkala to train under Abdulmanap and eventually lived with him. By 19 he won a Sambo world championship and an amateur MMA Russian championship. Umar was being trained to be a world champion before Cory even laced up gloves.

And let's be frank, the team Umar surrounded himself with since day 1 was insane...while maybe a few US gyms can compare like ATT, they are fragmented teams where everyone isn't in support of one another or even trains with each other. The talent Umar has come up with...Movlid Khaybulaev, Renat Khavalov, Amru Magomedov, his brother Usman Nurmagomedov, Khabib, Islam and so many more is just wild. Beyond that, Abdulmanap had the foresight to make connections with AKA because he knew Dagestan was more limited in offering striking training and he also saw the importance of his guys training at a Western gym with Western coaches and teammates etc. Because after a certain point in their careers they would mostly be fighting western fighters.

There's a thoroughness that goes into these guys development and at such young ages, from world class coaches and environments you can't really find in MMA yet. It's why the UFC is afraid to sign more Russians, they'd be overtaken at the top largely.

 

[AldoStillGoat]

I think their body types (caucasians) are meant for wrestling.

 

[DiazSlap]

Cody Sandbaggin struggled vs TJ “2 years off” Dillasnake…

Umar is awesome but I was never sold on dorky Cody and his spinning shiz

 

[DaleBoca]

I concur, the Dagestanis have exploded onto the MMA scene.

 

[HuskySamoan]

I think their body types (caucasians) are meant for wrestling.

What about Amru and Usman? Or Zabit?

I concur, the Dagestanis have exploded onto the MMA scene.

To be fair due to visa issues and ACA, we don't see them sign most of the good Chechens and Central Asia will and is beginning to produce comparable talent due to having a similar combat sports culture. That said, Eagles is/was a super gym and even the detail they put into their guys fight camps and finding proper sparring partners always seemed very dialed in. These other regions I don't think have that quite yet. But you're seeing some Russians build good teams, Eduard Vartanyan and Tsarukyan work together with Jora Ayvazyan and they have connections with national wrestling teams and tons of Sambo world champs. Shabliy works with Artem Levin and Sharap Gitinov, even brings them with him when he does his camps at ATT.

It's an interesting time, they're really ahead of the pack. Eagles MMA kinda reminds me of the Ukranian Olympic team that had Loma, Usyk, Gvozdyk, Berinchyk and Shelestyuk all win Olympic medals and then 4 out of 5 of them went pro and won world titles. There was something there...there's something definitely there with these guys, in MMA, right now. And dudes who start training at 16 are gonna realize they're often nearly a decade behind.

 

[Nobru]

yeah thats why we have all these dagestanis as champs

 

[kingofthecans]

Sometimes it's the life they live. Like farmers, some mountain towns and people live hard lives hauling lots of heavy shit so they are strong as an ox.
Then you teach them wrestling and even the women will make you their bitch..... which ain't always so bad....

 

[The Siege]

I think their body types (caucasians) are meant for wrestling.

cant dunk tho, unfortunately

 

[The Siege]

No, it's not magical mountain genetics or superior discipline and focus (although those might help) the big reason these guys have been such a step ahead (and many weren't to be fair, many Abdulmanap sambo champs caught plenty of Ls) is because of their pedigree. Cory began kickboxing at 17 at a very casual gym, that was his first martial arts experience...Umar began wrestling around 8, by 11-12 he was competing in Muay Thai and made it to the juniors national tournaments in Russia. By 14-15 he was traveling out to Makhachkala to train under Abdulmanap and eventually lived with him. By 19 he won a Sambo world championship and an amateur MMA Russian championship. Umar was being trained to be a world champion before Cory even laced up gloves.

And let's be frank, the team Umar surrounded himself with since day 1 was insane...while maybe a few US gyms can compare like ATT, they are fragmented teams where everyone isn't in support of one another or even trains with each other. The talent Umar has come up with...Movlid Khaybulaev, Renat Khavalov, Amru Magomedov, his brother Usman Nurmagomedov, Khabib, Islam and so many more is just wild. Beyond that, Abdulmanap had the foresight to make connections with AKA because he knew Dagestan was more limited in offering striking training and he also saw the importance of his guys training at a Western gym with Western coaches and teammates etc. Because after a certain point in their careers they would mostly be fighting western fighters.

There's a thoroughness that goes into these guys development and at such young ages, from world class coaches and environments you can't really find in MMA yet. It's why the UFC is afraid to sign more Russians, they'd be overtaken at the top largely.

Good writeup, however starting early can also be very detrimental depending on how it is handled. From what I know from interviews with the Dagestani fighters, training is essentially a cultural value in Dagestan (and probably other countries in the region) where it is sort of expected and encouraged, while in the States wrestling at a young age is sort of a thing you do if you are lucky to have a good program at a school or have the money. We haven't gotten to the point where that kind of training is ingrained in the culture and probably wont due to the size and diversity of the US.

 

[The Siege]

yeah thats why we have all these dagestanis as champs

Relative to their overall numbers in the UFC, the recency of their arrival in the UFC, and the size of the gym they come out of, it is pretty impressive.

I think Khabilov and Khabib started in the UFC around the same time in 2012.

Khabib became LW Champ, Islam became LW Champ, Usman became Bellator LW Champ, and Umar has a chance to become UFC BW Champ. Thats four potential champions from Team Abdulmanap since 2012. Thats insane.

Not to mention some of the other champs they have or had in other smaller or overseas promotions. I think that is a pretty good track record of success.

 

[Substance Abuse]

There's one incredibly stupid post in this thread. I'll let you guys find it, lol.

Nice write up @HuskySamoan

 

[Portland8242]

This is a long post to just say one thing.

It's no different than seeing Canada dominating hockey because if you go to rural Manitoba those kids probably grow up with fuck all to do and hockey is all there is. There's no "training is a virtue" or Caucasians are just some giga disciplined race of super humans.

 

[Nobru]

Relative to their overall numbers in the UFC, the recency of their arrival in the UFC, and the size of the gym they come out of, it is pretty impressive.

I think Khabilov and Khabib started in the UFC around the same time in 2012.

Khabib became LW Champ, Islam became LW Champ, Usman became Bellator LW Champ, and Umar has a chance to become UFC BW Champ. Thats four potential champions from Team Abdulmanap since 2012. Thats insane.

Not to mention some of the other champs they have or had in other smaller or overseas promotions. I think that is a pretty good track record of success.

they doing ok, yeah for sure. But 'Daggestani difference' is pathethic. thats my point.

 

[Platinum Perry Mason]

I think their body types (caucasians) are meant for wrestling.

 

[Big Tuppy Hole]

I think their body types (caucasians) are meant for wrestling.

I think that's selling them short, as TS pointed out they've been put through the grinder before alot of western fighters even step in a gym. Experience, Repetition and exposure to a winning colture has alot more to do than body type

 

[AldoStillGoat]

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I think that's selling them short, as TS pointed out they've been put through the grinder before alot of western fighters even step in a gym. Experience, Repetition and exposure to a winning colture has alot more to do than body type

I'm caucasian and I have a similar build. I think if I started wrestling I'd have certain advantages but of course nothing escapes work put in. You have to do the work to become great at something.

 

[AldoStillGoat]

There's one incredibly stupid post in this thread. I'll let you guys find it, lol.

Nice write up @HuskySamoan

Why is my post stupid?

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Why is my post stupid?

because Jon Jones is considered one of the greatest MMA grapplers ever. have you seen Jon Jones? he's built the exact opposite of Khabib and the majority of the Dagestani grapplers.

 

[AldoStillGoat]

because Jon Jones is considered one of the greatest MMA grapplers ever. have you seen Jon Jones? he's built the exact opposite of Khabib and the majority of the Dagestani grapplers.

comparing a one in a lifetime athlete to dagestani wrestlers is stupid. He also had a decided reach and height advantage over most of the division... when he fought similar stature fighters he struggled (gustaffson and reyes)

 

[AmonTobin]

No, it's not magical mountain genetics or superior discipline and focus (although those might help) the big reason these guys have been such a step ahead (and many weren't to be fair, many Abdulmanap sambo champs caught plenty of Ls) is because of their pedigree. Cory began kickboxing at 17 at a very casual gym, that was his first martial arts experience...Umar began wrestling around 8, by 11-12 he was competing in Muay Thai and made it to the juniors national tournaments in Russia. By 14-15 he was traveling out to Makhachkala to train under Abdulmanap and eventually lived with him. By 19 he won a Sambo world championship and an amateur MMA Russian championship. Umar was being trained to be a world champion before Cory even laced up gloves.

Considering how late Sandhagen started training, I’d call his grappling tonight a bit of a flex. He obviously worked hard on an answer to the wrestling, and he was effective in getting back to his feet each time. He identified a loophole and was able to exploit it repeatedly. O’Malley and anyone else in the division was taking some notes tonight, I’m sure.

I’m curious what Cory’s corner was telling him between rounds. He had such success with his leg kicks in R1 but abandoned them as the fight went on. Did he think he had a lead? The biggest let down imo was the lack of heat on Cory’s strikes and the absence of varied strikes like knees and elbows. Nowhere to be found. Not sure why they weren’t part of the arsenal tonight. Still,a quality fight from both lads though.