Shamima Begum...

dezzy said:
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Nah i'm just not blinded by emotion here. Anything to do with ISIS and Islamism and some westerners just lose all sense of perspective.
 
dezzy said:
fuck that mate, she'd get a few years at most

letting her in is out of the question, never let her set foot on uk soil again
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I find that opinion valid as well. Giving her a free pass is clearly out of the question.
 
Ayin said:
Having listened to several interviews with these women on the BBC over the last year or so, I’m continually shocked at the total lack of regret nearly all of them show, often combined with strong denial. The interviewers are sympathetic and rarely willing to pressure them, but even still that attitude comes through in their claims. you would think if you wanted your home country to accept you back, you’d be willing to say “ I was wrong, this was not the cause I thought it was”, but from the ones I have listened to, that has not been the case.

Also surprising was the lack of willingness to send the child away. When the argument is that the camps are Terrible, violent places where children are given no education, and then the interviewer says “the UK government is willing to take your child back to live with your parents while you go through the court proceedings” the answer is a form “No.”

As in, it would be better for my children to be here with me than there with my parents. If that’s the case (and assuming the parents are capable and safe to put the child with), then by her estimation it can’t be so bad there.
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Watch the documentary. It's called The Return: Life After ISIS).

I can't speak to whatever was said in past interviews but all the women are extremely regretful. They know they screwed up. Begum says she felt pressured to say certain things in past interviews because she was afraid of other people in the camp.

If she still doesn't sound "remorseful" enough to you it could be because she herself is a victim and not a perpetrator.

As far as sending the children home without the mothers, they touch on that in the documentary as well. The Kurdish refugee camp where they are being held cannot accept that. They refuse to separate the mothers and children.
 
I can’t help but feel a little bit if sympathy and pity for her. She made a horrible choice at 15 and I don’t think that makes her irredeemable. It’s a tough situation.
 
moosaev said:
Nah i'm just not blinded by emotion here. Anything to do with ISIS and Islamism and some westerners just lose all sense of perspective.
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The only valid perspective is fuck these people. Seems you're the one losing sight of that. Get your head straight. The number one victims of these lunatics are Muslims, so why the quibbling? These fucks would have you subjugated because you're not a true Muslim according to their warped view of your faith.
 
Staph infection said:
She gave up her citizenship when she went abroad and became a member of a terrorist organization. She only wants to come back because it did not work out for her. If things did not go bad she would have happily kept popping out future soldiers and watching people get tortured and killed.

She made a choice and she needs to deal with it. You cannot just go participate in terrorism and if it doesn’t work out for you, just head back to home your home country.
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"Participate in terrorism" by doing what?
 
Bald1 said:
The only valid perspective is fuck these people. Seems you're the one losing sight of that. Get your head straight. The number one victims of these lunatics are Muslims, so why the quibbling? These fucks would have you subjugated because you're not a true Muslim according to their warped view of your faith.
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I'm all for killing every ISIS bastard on Earth,... if I had it in my power I'd do that in a heartbeat. But I don't consider her a true ideogically committed ISIS member. She was 15 for God's sake. She got duped into going to what she thought was a perfect society because she was a dumb child with an undeveloped brain. She was then used as a sex toy for 3-4 years. Anyone who thinks she should be treated the same as Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi is simply overly emotional and not thinking straight.
 
moosaev said:
I'm not saying don't punish her at all. But stripping her of citizenship and banishing her forever seems a bit much. She's essentially been made a stateless person over a mistake (albeit a serious mistake) she made as a child.

PS, if there is evidence that she personally committed violent acts then I'm on board with banishing her, even sending her to prison. But from what i understand she was just duped into being essentially a concubine.
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Eh... I don't see this as much different than joining the Nazi's in Germany and then trying to come back after you lose the war, renounce Hitler and say you never hated GB. I don't know that I would support bringing her back and becoming financially responsible for her court case and subsequent punishment just for the sake of it.

15 years old = underdeveloped and shouldn't be held too accountable for joining ISIS
18 years old = sign up for war and go kill for your country

If she wants brownie points for not murdering someone at the will of ISIS but joined their organization knowing that's what they did, I don't think I'll be doing any baking any time soon.
 
“Lied to about what it would have been like”

did they lie about wanting to kill infidels? No? Ok then fuck her.
 
moosaev said:
I'm all for killing every ISIS bastard on Earth,... if I had it in my power I'd do that in a heartbeat. But I don't consider her a true ideogically committed ISIS member. She was 15 for God's sake. She got duped into going to what she thought was a perfect society because she was a dumb child with an undeveloped brain. Anyone who thinks she should be treated the same as Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi is simply overly emotional.
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How does one get duped into joining ISIS? Their media campaign was inescapable and they were denounced by Muslims everywhere the same as the Westboro lunatics by Christians.

I know this isn't in your weelhouse but I'm sure you've heard of the story of the two mothers and Solomon. The fact many of these mothers would rather use their kids as leverage instead of giving them up so they'd have an opportunity of a better future speaks volumes about their character. Same as in Kings 3:16 (or whatever).
 
Bald1 said:
How does one get duped into joining ISIS? Their media campaign was inescapable and they were denounced by Muslims everywhere the same as the Westboro lunatics by Christians.

I know this isn't in your weelhouse but I'm sure you've heard of the story of the two mothers and Solomon. The fact many of these mothers would rather use their kids as leverage instead of giving them up so they'd have an opportunity of a better future speaks volumes about their character. Same as in Kings 3:16 (or whatever).
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Mothers are biologically hard coded to want to stay with and protect their children. Asking them to willingly separate from their babies is like asking them to cut off a limb. It's a tall ask.
 
i suppose downplaying bad behaviour just comes as second nature when your religion's founder shags six year olds

{<shrug}
 
moosaev said:
Mothers are biologically hard coded to want to stay with and protect their children. Asking them to willingly separate from their babies is like asking them to cut off a limb. It's a tall ask.
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Two of my best friends were adopted at birth and I know a few women who gave up their first born. And none of those kids faced the prospect of growing up in a 3rd world detention center. Now you can question their mothers life choices, but those mothers did right by those kids ultimately.
 
Bald1 said:
Two of my best friends were adopted at birth and I know a few women who gave up their first born. And none of those kids faced the prospect of growing up in a 3rd world detention center. Now you can question their mothers life choices, but those mothers did right by those kids ultimately.
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That doesn't mean their decision came easily. And being stuck in a 3rd world detention center i'd imagine would make the decision harder not easier.
 
Yes- it’s their basic right as citizens

but- they need to return straight to a psych facility and or jail
 
mjfan23 said:
Yes- it’s their basic right as citizens
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I completely disagree with this statement. They went and joined the ranks of an enemy state. No different then defecting to The Soviet Union 60 years ago. Just because their caliphate turned out to be a failure that doesn't negate their choice. Stateless by their own choices.
 
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