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Shamima Begum...

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by KeepItRealist, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. Neph Brown Belt

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    Well the Supreme Court said otherwise so you're wrong.

    Also, she made her shitty choice and now she can live with it.
     
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  2. Sticko Brown Belt

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    Does ISIS have an official membership roll or?

    She was a naive and impressionable teenage girl with a terrible home life and few friends. ISIS sold her a bill of goods. She wanted to live in this amazing Islamic society but the reality wasn't anything like she'd been told.

    At any rate, Begum was a civilian, not a fighter, she had no involvement whatsoever in any terrorist operations.

    Section 40 of the 1981 British Nationality Act authorizes the Home Department to take citizenship away in some circumstances, the problem is that the language is incredibly vague, and as I said before, rendering a person stateless violates international law. If the UK thinks Begum can become a Bangladeshi citizen, they are wrong about that.
     
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  3. Sticko Brown Belt

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    The Supreme Court is wrong.

    Watch the documentary.
     
  4. Neph Brown Belt

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    Oh, okay internet person. The Supreme court is wrong.
     
  5. Sticko Brown Belt

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    Here in America we have a Supreme Court too, and they're wrong about stuff all the time. Why should Britain's be any different?

    Seriously, watch the documentary.
     
  6. SanchoMF Equally Useless

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    Fuck her and everyone else who went and joined a terrorist organisation.
    The only suitable action is to revoke their citizenships and let them rot where they are.
     
  7. Bargey Silver Belt

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    No country can be forced to let a terrorist enter their borders. Vagueness is loved by lawyers because they can make it mean what they want. In this case though, they’ve got the backing of the community and the community expects rightly that their safety be prioritised.

    Perhaps she can form a new caliphate
     
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  8. Hellowhosthat If he dies he dies

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    It might dissuade some and if it stops even a couple then it's arguably worth it.
     
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  9. ElKarlo Titanium Belt

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    What’? She literally joined a genocidal terroristic regime. How is she not a terrorist? She actively supported them.
     
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  10. ElKarlo Titanium Belt

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    She made her bed. It’s not like she was a local recruited at gunpoint. She travels there and made the decision to help IS and all it’s awfulness. Let her rot in an interment camp forever
     
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  11. TryggeTryggvar Purple Belt

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    Im sure she is a a sweet innocent girl. I mean we all made the mistake of joining a terrorist state once or twice, fooled by the great beheading propaganda videos they posted as commercials.

    Even if she is "innocent", it would mean she is too stupid to know better and is therefore a danger to society either way.
     
  12. moreorless87 Straba

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    The place called a court at which she hasnt been found guilty of anything, this is the UK foreign secretary/s acting extra judiciary.

    Reguardless of that though stripping people of citzenship is frown on by pretty much every other western nation reguardless of what someone may or may not be guilty of.
     
  13. Staph infection Glue historian

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    She gave up her citizenship when she went abroad and became a member of a terrorist organization. She only wants to come back because it did not work out for her. If things did not go bad she would have happily kept popping out future soldiers and watching people get tortured and killed.

    She made a choice and she needs to deal with it. You cannot just go participate in terrorism and if it doesn’t work out for you, just head back to home your home country.
     
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  14. moreorless87 Straba

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    I think people are underplaying stripping someone of citizenship, its something no other western nation is doing even if they have the death penalty, well bar someone actually getting citizenship under false pretense.

    Part of that is that its not just about punishment either its about taking responsibility for your own citizens.

    This is something you'd expect in tinpot authoritarian dictatorship, so naturally Tony Blair paved the way for it legally.
     
  15. ICHEERTHEBULL Black Belt

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    I’m not sure what the parameters are but dissident republicans often get 4 - 5 years if the conviction is for membership alone (always trials without jury’s). Tommy Robinson got 10 months for using a fake passport to get into the US but he had long list of convictions for assault and fraud previously. So all in all I’d say she could face two years maybe and probably serve half of that.

    Do you have a link for the documentary
     
  16. Ayin Black Belt

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    Having listened to several interviews with these women on the BBC over the last year or so, I’m continually shocked at the total lack of regret nearly all of them show, often combined with strong denial. The interviewers are sympathetic and rarely willing to pressure them, but even still that attitude comes through in their claims. you would think if you wanted your home country to accept you back, you’d be willing to say “ I was wrong, this was not the cause I thought it was”, but from the ones I have listened to, that has not been the case.

    Also surprising was the lack of willingness to send the child away. When the argument is that the camps are Terrible, violent places where children are given no education, and then the interviewer says “the UK government is willing to take your child back to live with your parents while you go through the court proceedings” the answer is a form “No.”

    As in, it would be better for my children to be here with me than there with my parents. If that’s the case (and assuming the parents are capable and safe to put the child with), then by her estimation it can’t be so bad there.
     
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  17. moosaev Black Belt

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    She was underage when it all went down. So her brain was literally not even fully developed. There's a reason minors don't get the same punishment as adults.
     
  18. moosaev Black Belt

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    I agree that if she wants to be let back in she should show genuine contrition. However expecting her to simply send her child away is a little much. Mothers are biologically hardcoded to stick with their babies, asking her to give up ever seeing her kid again is essentially like asking her to sever a limb. It might be good for the child but still a tough ask.
     
  19. Bald1 War Room Can

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    These people renounced their birth place citizenship when they became citizens of the ISIS caliphate. Too bad the state they adopted as their new home collapsed. It's their own fault that they're stateless. Fuck em.
     
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  20. Yehudim Black Belt

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    Plenty of other Muslim girls also faced an allegedly tough family life and were groomed by older men. They didn’t take the trip to Syria. They didn’t show zero remorse like Begum.

    This is not someone who needs whiteknighting. Most teenagers understand the gravity of this genocidal group.

    The only difference is that if she were a few years older she would understand how risky this was - not that she disagrees with them, but that it’s a risk to actively aid and abet them.

    Not exactly comforting to know.
     
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