changes2008
Orange Belt
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YOU SEE THE SAME CHIRO AS ME?!
personally I would never ever recommend anyone ever ever goes to a chiropractor
but what do I know?
You could not be more wrong.
Yes try out a massage therapist, or even a physiotherapist, but if you value your back/spine and the money in your wallet do not go to a chiropractor.
I will not even get into why these individuals are called "back quacks" but what they "practice" so far out of the realm of science and plausibility it is ridicious. Do yourself a favor and do a little research on chiropractors "believe" that they are capable of doing. Than match that with research on how the body actually works/functions...
If you have done that, and still want to go to a chiropractor...hey...do not say that i did not warn you
Western Medicine isn't all about pharmacology. There is surgery, conservative care, therapy, health&wellness, exercise, nutrition, psychology, support groups, etc. for a plethora of ailments and medical diagnoses seen in the world.
I think we went on a tangent when it came to meds vs. "adjustments".
I've had a herniated disk for about 9 years now. Granted If I get a massage every couple months for maintenance I seem to do fine. While training 4 days a week boxing and submission wrestling I
I've never herniated a disc before but I know that when my left knee is hurting, my hips are off and need to be adjusted. I wouldn't have even known that my chronic left knee pain had anything to do with my hips if it hadn't been for my chiropractor.
I've never herniated a disc before but I know that when my left knee is hurting, my hips are off and need to be adjusted. I wouldn't have even known that my chronic left knee pain had anything to do with my hips if it hadn't been for my chiropractor.
Surgery is something I would avoid as much as possible, if you can heal without surgery I would go for it. Therapy and the likes can also be provided by a knowledgeable doctor of chiropractics, and I intend to be that sort of DC.
I am still in the "pre-med" phase (I am working on Bachelors of Science in Human Biology). I have some experience as being a massage therapist and in the fitness world as a personal trainer. I do know that there are many in the medical/scientific community that still do not fully throw themselves in with the chiropractic practice but it is a legitimate science. I do not support the whole idea that anyone needs just their D.C. (doctor of chiropractics), but do believe that a D.C. is an important aspect of maintaining a person's wellness.
Many DC's not only adjust but provide exercise programs, nutrition advice, and physical therapy for rehabilitation. Many of them also work closely (at least here in California) with other doctors in hospitals. We are taught to have full check ups done to see if that particular patient will be alright for chiropractic work. However, we have to be trained for this sort of stuff, and I am sorry to hear that many of the DC's in your area/country may not be out of the "dark ages" in terms of Chiropractics.
I am still learning a lot myself, and have not gotten into my chiropractic studies as of yet so I may not be the best source of information. However, it is a growing field in which good DCs are beginning to come out of the woodwork and really help people out.
I go to Cleveland Chiropractic College - Los Angeles.
From the World Health Organization:
"A lesion or dysfunction in a joint or motion segment in which alignment, movement integrity and/or physiological function are altered, although contact between joint surfaces remains intact. It is essentially a functional entity, which may influence biomechanical and neural integrity."
Yes, but not in the old school Chiropractic belief.
An important statement by Professor Philip S. Bolton of the School of Biomedical Sciences at University of Newcastle, Australia who writes in the Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics:
"The traditional chiropractic vertebral subluxation hypothesis proposes that vertebral misalignment cause illness, disease, or both. This hypothesis remains controversial." His objective was, "To briefly review and update experimental evidence concerning reflex effects of vertebral subluxations, particularly concerning peripheral nervous system responses to vertebral subluxations. Data source: Information was obtained from chiropractic or, scientific peer-reviewed literature concerning human or animal studies of neural responses to vertebral subluxation, vertebral displacement or movement, or both." He concluded, "Animal models suggest that vertebral displacements and putative vertebral subluxations may modulate activity in group I to IV afferent nerves. However, it is not clear whether these afferent nerves are modulated during normal day-to-day activities of living and, if so, what segmental or whole-body reflex effects they may have."
Is it a perfect science? No, but show me a perfect science. There are no facts in science; particularly medical science. New ideas, and practices are being discovered all the time, and old ones are either being determined in still being useful or thrown out because something better is around. You do not have to "believe" in chiropractics; however, if it works than does it really matter what you believe?
I said before that there are bad doctors in every medical profession, and it's shame that chiropractics has had more than it's fair share. However, just like someone's fighting ability, you don't look at the style or system, you look at the man.
Surgery is something I would avoid as much as possible, if you can heal without surgery I would go for it. Therapy and the likes can also be provided by a knowledgeable doctor of chiropractics, and I intend to be that sort of DC.
Alright regarding the article you quoted:
Data source: Information was obtained from chiropractic or, scientific peer-reviewed literature concerning human or animal studies of neural responses to vertebral subluxation, vertebral displacement or movement, or both
Because it is not identified how much of the literature is from "chiropractic" sources, this is a huge conflict of interest. The Medical field is not upset about chiropractic because if is going to "steal" patients...
The medical community is upset about chiropractic because there is not logical bases for the manner in which it works.
Regarding the article you quoted:
"He concluded, "Animal models suggest that vertebral displacements and putative vertebral subluxations may modulate activity in group I to IV afferent nerves. However, it is not clear whether these afferent nerves are modulated during normal day-to-day activities of living and, if so, what segmental or whole-body reflex effects they may have.""
Umm did you actually read this conclusion...this is far from an endorsement of chiro! It says that it "suggests" vetebral subluxations (again i will not go into the pseudo-science of this at the moment) MAY have an effect in animals. But than it goes on to say it is not clear if there is any actual effect...
Again this is far from an endorsment/support for chiropractic.
Regarding your statement:
Is it a perfect science? No, but show me a perfect science.
This is a logical fallacy. A straw-man arguement to be exact...
Regarding your statement:
There are no facts in science; particularly medical science.
Are you going to give me some post modern rhetoric about how there is no "truth" only what we make. There is no "true" only that which we observe.
There are no facts in science....really...
particularly medical science...again...really...
While i would not profess that all of medicine is a "fact" there are many "facts in science"
Let me give you a few:
1) the lungs exchange gases, specifically, the lungs expell CO2 and take in O2
2) the lungs tranport O2 from the lung tissue to the blood stream
3) the heart pumps blood, blood the is rich in O2 (while more specifically the Lt Ventricle does)
4) human tissue require blood rich in O2 to survive and thrive
5) without O2 rich blood human tissue begans to die, after a long enough time without blood the tissue will die, if enough human tissue dies...the human itself dies...
Sorry man...but those simple facts i listed above are FACT. And they are FACTS that have been determine by medical science.
Regarding your statement:
You do not have to "believe" in chiropractics; however, if it works than does it really matter what you believe?
This has nothing to do with "belief" and that is what i am attempting to get across.
I understand that if i do not "believe" in something that does not make it untrue. For instance if i choose not to believe in gravity, that is not going to make it so that i can jump up and float in the air...if i jump up i will come down.
My critisms of chrio have nothing to do with a belief system. My opinions of chiro are not dogmatic, i simply am asking for evidence. That is evidence to prove/support the claims that are being made by the chiro community.
You argue that "it works" so it does not matter...
that is the problem...there is a ton of literature out there to demonstrate that chiro does not work. I am not talking about fluff research that is full of holes, i am talking about tightly regimented randomized control trials that some that chiro does nothing...
Regarding your statement:
I said before that there are bad doctors in every medical profession, and it's shame that chiropractics has had more than it's fair share
your logic here is flawed. yes there are "bad" doctors...
But that is not the crux of the arguement, the discussion here is that there is little to no support/evidence for chiropractic
i look forward to your comments
My medical insurance says it covers chiropractors, I just have to pay the $20 copay. Does this generally cover physical therapist too?
The chiropractor that I went to once before told me that my back alignment had nothing to do with the spine, but more with muscular imbalances. I ended up getting a massage instead of getting any joints cracked. This made me think well of chiropractors.
^^^^
I am picking up what you are throwing down :icon_chee
BucketBot FTW!!!
personally I would never ever recommend anyone ever ever goes to a chiropractor
but what do I know?
You are right. I was in a pretty serious car related accident, and suffered back and neck damage, mainly disc issues. My orthopedic specialist told me that chiropractors are useless and worthless, they are like witchdoctors. If your back hurts, and does not actually have serious damage, than a deep tissue message would work best. If you do have something serious then I would recommend physical therapy and if that does not work than get surgery. Fack chiropractors, they literally do nothing at all to really help back problems.