Elections Life after the Trumpokalipse? New research shows the massive hole Dems are in

[UberHere]

They just were lying about too much for too long and it collapsed on them.

They were lying about Biden's mental decline right up until the night of the debate, when they finally realized the jig was up.

It was way too late at that point.

Then they forced Biden out against his will (obviously) but they hadn't counted on whatever move Kamala pulled to force them into endorsing her.

I don't know what she did behind the scenes to force them into that spot, but it was suicide for the Dems. Whatever she threatened them with, they should have called her bluff.

She was a uniquely unpopular Democrat politician. Her 2020 primary campaign was shocking. She made Hillary Clinton seem likeable by comparison.

If they had just admitted Biden was senile back in like January and spent the year properly building someone that had a chance in hell of beating Trump, they might have won.

The problem is they're really, really bad at this stuff.

They run things the way corporations do. They pretend they don’t have any foresight (maybe they don’t) and just try to implement quick fixes and feel good slogans once the gaslighting stops working whenever people bring up valid concerns for future viability of the status quo

 

[Koro_11]

The problem is that the people who run the Democrat party hate Americans. Especially straight white males and anyone who may defend Western Civilization, Christianity, the nuclear and extended family and their fruits. They want a dysfunctional society where fractured interest groups are too busy fighting each other and living in fear to see how the elites are robbing us or resist them.

^^^
This man gets it.

 

[Halifax]

So, you think the pharmacare and dental care legislation they passed was a case of "just double and triple down on race/gender/divisive bullshit and ignore what the people want"?

Certainly none of them are perfect but for a minority parliament sometimes it's hard to get shit done. Look at this past year where they've been effectively filibustered by the opposition and not able to pass anything. Opposition party obstructionism played has much (or more) of a role as "race/gender/divisive bullshit".

Sure, I'll concede that this late hail mary is nice to get the nerfed framework in, even if it's sure to be gutted. Legislation they only passed after years

Pharmacare that specifically covers birth control and some diabetes medication, but the fine print excludes many drugs, and dental care almost nobody needed because even a fast food job provides dental Coverage.

Neither of these programs do anything for me. Or most people I know.

I was more fully in support of bill c-379, but the libs and NDP shot that down together, since we are talking obstructionism to common sense legislation

In any case, I know what I want in a candidate and none of our current parties even register .

 

[Andy Capp]

Sure, I'll concede that this late hail mary is nice to get the nerfed framework in, even if it's sure to be gutted. Legislation they only passed after years

Pharmacare that specifically covers birth control and some diabetes medication, but the fine print excludes many drugs, and dental care almost nobody needed because even a fast food job provides dental Coverage.

Neither of these programs do anything for me. Or most people I know.

I was more fully in support of bill c-379, but the libs and NDP shot that down together, since we are talking obstructionism to common sense legislation

In any case, I know what I want in a candidate and none of our current parties even register .

You, or most people you know. There are nearly 40 million people in this country. Is such a program only good if it helps people you know?

My opinion is people in Canada shouldn't need insurance to cover dental care. It should be included in everyone's public insurance. It's a step in the right direction.

Funny thing; it occurs to me that Trudeau has done more to help indigenous people in this country than a great many PMs before him but he is criticised for not doing enough and/or virtue signalling.

Between him and Singh (a consequence of a minority parliament) got more done to help poor families with healthcare than a great many before them but they're criticised for doing too little too late.

There are a couple of similar things that escape my recollection at the moment. The point is, shit is getting done. I don't particularly care if they're doing it because they're desperate to try to win re-election when there is such a massive tide turning against all incumbent governments this year, pretty much, for varying and myriad reasons.

The point being, fuck Trudeau personally; he can fuck off with the fuckiest off machine there is and get lost. He should have stepped down years ago. But his government is accomplishing things I think they should be doing (as minority governments regularly do) and I would vote to have more of that in the next parliament with or without him.

Do I think Poilievre has a stronger interest in the well-being of all Canadians than that fuckstick, Trudeau? No. I do not. Do I think he will work to pass legislation that helps anyone from whom he will not benefit directly? Certainly not.

Was I right that he's trying to be Trump lite with the catchphrases and grandstanding, that's he's an air head with a new hair cut? Yes, I was.

The bottom line for me is I think the Conservatives would do more harm than good if they got into power while the opposite is true of the Liberals/NDP. They're all fucky but the Conservatives are fuckier.

Just my two cents.

 

[Scerpi]

Sigh.
The fact that you can’t discern between two very different statistics explains a lot.
The first was total jobs added. The second was net gain in jobs once we factor in the ones lost during COVID. A shitty post-pandemic scenario in which we don’t recover all of those lost jobs was a possibility, right? One in which we recover those lost jobs but don’t add anything significant beyond that was another possibility. We recovered those lost jobs plus added millions more. Not hard to understand.


Number 1, farmers wouldn’t have needed to be subsidized if it wasn’t for Trump’s utterly retarded tarrifs and trade war. Biden has some tariffs in place but we aren’t needing a multi-billion dollar bailout package for farmers because we aren’t stupid about it. That bailout was entirely avoidable.

Number two, green energy incentives don’t mainly benefit the wealthy.
Just last year for example, USDA made 1 billion dollars available to fund clean energy projects in rural America through low-interest, partially forgivable loans. These projects allow farmers in rural areas to run their farms cheaper and more efficiently, and people to power their businesses, homes, schools, hospitals, and the like with cleaner and more efficient power.
And average Americans saved a total of something like 1.5 billion dollars from the EV tax credits you’re opposing. The Inflation Reduction Act is exactly the kind of bill you *should* support, and yet it didn’t get a single Republican vote in either house of Congress.


I didn’t say anything in support of jamming every possible thing into a bill, and I didn’t say anything in support of random pork or bullshit spending.
I will say that considering the fact that both Trump and Biden had debt that was COVID-related and debt that was non-COVID related, and Trump’s non-COVID debt is greater than Biden’s total debt, Republicans are about the last people on Earth I’d ever listen to regarding spending.

The Inflation Reduction Act that I previously mentioned, for example, may have been a 900 billion dollar bill, but it was almost entirely paid for. That was a bill that reduces wasteful spending, but Republicans in Congress and conservatives throughout America won’t support it—because they do not in fact give a shit about average Americans.


It doesn’t make sense though. If simply being a big, powerful country was enough, the rest of the G10 should’ve had similar recoveries. And small countries who aren’t nearly as wealthy and powerful shouldn’t have had better recoveries.



I have though. Biden/Harris oversaw a period in which federal, non-defense investment capital climbed to over 2% of the GDP, which is a level that as a four year average has not seen since the 1980s. This was largely spearheaded by the Infrastructure Act, CHIPS and Science Act, and Build Back Better Act.
All of this helped to bring large corporations in to invest as well, and during the first 3 years of Biden’s term, the top 25 companies in the US invested 900 billion dollars, which is about 40% more than the comparable total in the first three years of Trump’s administration.

Fixing economies that were wrecked by republicans is just kind of what we do. Been that way since FDR.


Common sense policies like supporting vaccination instead of spreading bullshit CTs about it, or trusting the advice of top health officials instead of vilifying them, or not pushing dumb fucking things like Ivermectin which have no scientific backing. Florida is a great example of a state that used a lot of common-sense policies early on that enabled them to re-open the way they did when they did—they try and deny this now, of course, but the data is clear.

There came a huge disparity between Trump voting counties and blue voting counties where COVID is concerned, and that’s because of the dumb CTs and bullshit that the Right pushed, whoch cost us far more lives than we ever needed to lose.


Merry Christmas to you as well!

What a fucking mess of garbage

Most of those “new” jobs were Government Jobs

And they were lying about the jobs created

 

[Belaya Smert]

Keep up with all this special treatment of the affluent and powerful families and individuals. Alienate the middle class and cotton onto any and all fringe sects of the country; no matter how small. Make that the whole campaign about individual expression; push til it nauseates the voting populace.
Ignore and deny any criticism of your party of your actions while funding, arming and escalation of two foreign wars.
Act like its about fucking freedom if anyone complains. Get your hive mind to call anyone that disagrees with the war in Ukraine a “Putin puppet” like complete fucking cowards this is the approved dialogue and counterpoints.
Make Covid out to be hemorrhagic flu and then when it’s realized it isn’t as severe as stated definitely don’t give up that ability to abuse emergency orders. And don’t let me forget that Biden was mentally compromised for his entire presidency and every fucking body knew it.
GMAFB!

This country trusted Donald Fucking Trump more than the invisible VP and that fucking weirdo from Minnesota that lets looters burn shit to the ground so you don’t call him racist.

 

[BFoe]

What a fucking mess of garbage

Most of those “new” jobs were Government Jobs

And they were lying about the jobs created

Basically yelling “fAKe NeWs” at my post and then quoting a bunch of shit from Twitter, eh? Well that settles it then.

It’s incredible to me that here are still people trying to run the bs story that Biden caused inflation when we all know that is not the case. Inflation was caused mainly by scarcity of goods due to pandemic-related decreases in production and supply chain issues. And we know this.

For example: the tweet from Kat the Hammer (lol at that name) tries to make a connection between Dems “proposing” a budget in July 2021 (it ended up being 3.5 trillion not 3.9) as being a cause of inflation—but Trump signed a 3.6 billion dollar budget in 2018. Why didn’t that spike inflation? Because Trump is just magic I guess?
—If you want to make a case that government spending is the cause, Trump’s debt was double Biden’s. Shouldn’t Trump be the cause of inflation then in your worldview?

At least Zachary Mazlish is a real economist, and his entire article—which I am sure you ve read, right? You didn’t just regurgitate one chart from some other dude’s tweet, did you? — is very interesting, despite his methodology not being agreed on by several other economists.
I’ll quote Mazlish from that article:

“Now, I want to be as clear as possible: this is not the fault of the Biden administration, nor is it even really the fault of inflation — the charts from the previous sections better capture the latter. The remarkable growth of real post-tax-and-transfer incomes 2016-2020 followed by their unprecedented decline 2021-24 is primarily due to the timing of the various Pandemic relief checks, which doubly penalize Biden: Trump looks comparatively strong due to the 2020 boost, and Biden’s data is extra weak due to the reference point being the stimulus-fueled high that was 2020.”

 

[evansusmc2]

Look below you. Again, many leaders did just fine throughout the pandemic.

Again.... for the 3rd time.... WHICH countries??

This is your typical nonsensical partisan response.

Your OPINION about my response is just that. An opinion.

Not really all around but again, this is your partisan childlike world view.

See: above

I don't need to watch but I can imagine.

It was just as bad as 2016. And.... even worse

Seattle woman charged with killing her father with ice axe during argument over lighting

King County Prosecutors said an argument over lighting in a living room led a Seattle woman to kill her father with an ice axe.

komonews.com

I correctly predicted he would win.

It's been so long that I can't even remember... Were you one of the countless lefties on this board that laughed and heckled like rabid jackals while swearing Trump would lose? If not than OK.

If you don't believe that we can make a bet.

If you say you never swore up and down that Trump would lose and then forced yourself to ignore it afterwards like Darkballs and MANY others did than I'll take your word for it.

You have quite a big mouth,

That's your opinion.

let's see if you can put your failed bitcoin endeavors where your mouth is.

I wasn't gonna bother posting an update on this but I guess it'll be nice to shove this in your face.

Order ID 1fc43c21-74ac-4a4e-bbc1-d36348669936
Date December 5, 2024
Deliver to PayPal balance
You sold 0.0151 BTC
Exchange rate @ USD 94145.69537 / BTC
Subtotal 1421.6 USD
Processing fee -65.39 USD

Not bad since I absolutely thought we'd get nothing out of the $2000 worth of bitcoin miners we bought. I was just getting ready to make a joke about this to the buddy that is managing this before he let me know he finally sold when bitcoin went up last month. But since I got money to burn it wouldn't have mattered to me anyways.

Man up

Like I said... were you one of the many lefties that were totally wrong about it? Are you one of the guys/girls I called out??

, my poor

If I am "poor" than tell me exactly what you think I own or how much I'm worth. This should be good, LOL!

princess.

Gotta be nice to be able to type this on a keyboard to a guy that can render you unconscious with ease huh? Whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

That's nice but you're a can and hilariously delusional.

You've already proven your opinion of me is irrelevant.

 

[LostMyBlackBelt]

 

[ShadowRun]

They got idiots almost running the party

They are morally bankrupt

 

[The Diplomat]

The democrats need to get their/our shit together. I've been complaining for years
@Islam Imamate @Jack V Savage but my centrist/moderate ass is out of touch apparently.

Going further left isn't the answer. Reactionary post-reactionary just digs us into further extremes. We need a smart, charismatic *moderate* politician who is capable of swinging voters.

Any ideas?....Because I'm still wondering how a 39 year old Vance becomes VP. And yet I'm not, because I...

*breaks table*

Saw it fucking coming!

*calms down*

OK. You guys have a take?

 

[koquerelle]

The comparison to an ostrich with its head the sand is a very good comparison. These fuckers are so tone deaf.

I agree with this. They won't learn a thing from their defeat and it's a shame. Losing to a turd like Trump should have been a big wake up call.

 

[ShadowRun]

I agree with this. They won't learn a thing from their defeat and it's a shame. Losing to a turd like Trump should have been a big wake up call.

Yes their 1-2 vs Trump , Hillary was probably the best candidate out of the 3, she actually has a backbone. I know Biden broke the record with votes and all that it was still close on electoral map.

I find it weird that fellow liberals or lefties trash each other for having centrist like ideas . I see and read all the time like Bill Maher, he is hardcore anti Trump to the bone and is called not a real democrat. Don’t get me wrong of course on the right their is idiots, I wish MTG , Matt gaetz, that stupid chick from CO and the squad would all be shunned out of politics . They got no business being leaders of the country, but neither does Trump .

 

[Sweater of AV]

Again.... for the 3rd time.... WHICH countries??

Your OPINION about my response is just that. An opinion.

See: above

It was just as bad as 2016. And.... even worse

Seattle woman charged with killing her father with ice axe during argument over lighting

King County Prosecutors said an argument over lighting in a living room led a Seattle woman to kill her father with an ice axe.

komonews.com

It's been so long that I can't even remember... Were you one of the countless lefties on this board that laughed and heckled like rabid jackals while swearing Trump would lose? If not than OK.

If you say you never swore up and down that Trump would lose and then forced yourself to ignore it afterwards like Darkballs and MANY others did than I'll take your word for it.

That's your opinion.

I wasn't gonna bother posting an update on this but I guess it'll be nice to shove this in your face.

Order ID 1fc43c21-74ac-4a4e-bbc1-d36348669936
Date December 5, 2024
Deliver to PayPal balance
You sold 0.0151 BTC
Exchange rate @ USD 94145.69537 / BTC
Subtotal 1421.6 USD
Processing fee -65.39 USD

Not bad since I absolutely thought we'd get nothing out of the $2000 worth of bitcoin miners we bought. I was just getting ready to make a joke about this to the buddy that is managing this before he let me know he finally sold when bitcoin went up last month. But since I got money to burn it wouldn't have mattered to me anyways.


Like I said... were you one of the many lefties that were totally wrong about it? Are you one of the guys/girls I called out??

If I am "poor" than tell me exactly what you think I own or how much I'm worth. This should be good, LOL!

Gotta be nice to be able to type this on a keyboard to a guy that can render you unconscious with ease huh? Whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

You've already proven your opinion of me is irrelevant.

Lol at this dumbass posting bitcoin transactions on a karate forum.



Yeah, you really shoved it in my face, you donkey.

Made about $1500 last month by selling bitcoin.

This was after going in this with a buddy and buying about $3000 worth of bitcoin miners and accessories THREE years ago. Yep, took us 3 years to get half our money back. Also that's not factoring in the electricity it costed running these things.

Fuck, you are stupid. And yes, I predicted Trump would win:

Lmao at choosing Cance.

Doesn’t really matter. At this point Dump could choose a pylon and win.

It's not my fault you can't read and probably didn't graduate high school. Chin up, lad. Instead of acting tough you should choke yourself out and maybe you'll wake up with an IQ over 60.

 

[Madmick]

Cenk, like a whole host of these sorts, is first and foremost a YouTuber trying to get views. But there's something else at work, too. Purity test sorts of cults always end up collapsing in on themselves. And it always seems out of nowhere, too. But it's not. The model goes like this:

1. A small group of people position themselves as more enlightened than anyone else and start to coalesce around a niche sort of movement or cause that gives them special status among one another as unique and enlightened thinkers.
2. People come to believe in the cause or movement and/or to see it as the cool crowd, and they get on board, and as it grows it becomes sort of self perpetuating as more and more people are drawn to the gravitational pull of it's developing world view.
3. The purity tests start to arise as a way to self-identify as part of the movement and to signal "in crowd" status separated off from those outside the movement.
4. More people join the movement, but no longer because they are drawn to it, but instead because they fear being left outside or, worse, lumped in with those people (and the ideas of those people) who suspect or actively oppose the movement.
5. The movement grows too large, and the entire raison d'etre of the (originally "niche") movement (to feel special) starts to dissolve. This is the tipping point. The moment the movement hits its "mainstream" peak it paradoxically loses it's cultural cachet.
6. The purity tests move inward as a way of establishing a new niche group set apart from the mainstream group.
7. People within the mainstream movement follow along for as long as they can, which means spouting nonsense they don't believe (or at least being sure not to speak up against it) in hopes that they can pass and won't be thrown from the mainstream.
8. You now have two very different goals working against one another in the movement: One subgroup is pushing the envelope to hack the movement back down into a niche group of special people; the other subgroup is trying desperately to keep their place in what they believe has become the new mainstream.
9. You now have an ironic and unsustainable situation where the larger majority of those in the group are just faking compliance because they believe the views they are faking to be mainstream... but it only feels mainstream because of the sheer volume of people who are faking it.
10. Try as they might, there's no way for regular people to sustain this, and at some point or other they fall on the wrong side of some purity test or other; they are thrown into the wilderness, and then with nothing left to lose, they just start speaking their mind on all of it.
11. People in the movement who have been holding on for dear life start to realize that (far) more people agree with the doubts and criticisms they have been so desperately trying to self-censure, and they just start saying what they think. And with that, the whole thing collapses as a main stream movement.
12. Those who never jumped on board express cynical skepticism about the new claims by those who have left the movement who now, all of a sudden, disavow the principles they've been vocally supporting up until very recently. That cynical skepticism is well earned and deserved... but it's also true for most of these people that they never really bought into most of those ideas. They're just cowardly sorts who couldn't bring themselves to express their genuine thoughts until someone else made it safe.

That's probably over detailed, but my Dad was a pastor and I saw these weird little mini-cults rise up in the Church community pretty regularly (prosperity doctrine, faith healing movements, demon casting, holy ghost manifestations, end time prophecy and prepping, and on and on and on), and they always follow this same basic path through hype to collapse.

Or, you know, it could be the MAGA people aren't the demons the mainstream press whose propaganda you swallowed for years have made them out to be, and they're ironically more willing to accommodate a populist, working-class driven big tent than the Democrats are.

You know, something explained by the OP of the thread itself; how even Democratic-leaning Americans believe the party has lost touch in its obsession with wokeism/DEI and liberal elites.

 

[UberHere]

The democrats need to get their/our shit together. I've been complaining for years
@Islam Imamate @Jack V Savage but my centrist/moderate ass is out of touch apparently.

Going further left isn't the answer. Reactionary post-reactionary just digs us into further extremes. We need a smart, charismatic *moderate* politician who is capable of swinging voters.

Any ideas?....Because I'm still wondering how a 39 year old Vance becomes VP. And yet I'm not, because I...

*breaks table*

Saw it fucking coming!

*calms down*

OK. You guys have a take?

The funny thing is those two posters you tagged are against the party going further left, but constantly makes excuses each time they do.

 

[Islam Imamate]

The democrats need to get their/our shit together. I've been complaining for years
@Islam Imamate @Jack V Savage but my centrist/moderate ass is out of touch apparently.

Going further left isn't the answer. Reactionary post-reactionary just digs us into further extremes. We need a smart, charismatic *moderate* politician who is capable of swinging voters.

Any ideas?....Because I'm still wondering how a 39 year old Vance becomes VP. And yet I'm not, because I...

*breaks table*

Saw it fucking coming!

*calms down*

OK. You guys have a take?

I think lots of people want to insist that the reason Kamala lost is because she didn't appeal enough to their vision or policy priorities. Here you are saying that we can't run far left candidates but the further left types point to her moderating positions and her attempt to break for the center as the reason she lost. So I'm inherently skeptical of such takes which, with all due respect, is what your take here comes off as.

I've said this before but the reason she lost is because of inflation. And not even because inflation was actually crippling Americans, notice how many people have stopped complaining about it. By the time the election rolled around inflation had been tamed for at least a year in the sense that real wages were rising. No, it was the perception of inflation being a drag and the way the GOP was able to effectively make it an issue to sway moderates to vote for them or at least stay home and not vote for Kamala. Every incumbent in the West that was up for reelection got booted, look at how even the Tories in the UK and Justin Trudeau in Canada fell after about a decade of staying in power. If anything Democrats in the US retained more of their vote share than all those other parties which I attribute to a combination of our economy being significantly stronger and the fact that Trump is a bad candidate. He lost in 2020 and he bungled the "red wave" in 2022 which you can blame on the Dobbs decision in response to which I can point out that it only happened because of Trump.

Of course there's always room for improvement and there are lots of things I disagree with Democrats on and would like to see them change course. At the state and local level I've lost most confidence in them so if anything I'm looking for independents and less bad Republicans to vote for down here. At the national level though I'll never accept Trump as a legitimate politician so I'll continue to vote (D) for Congress as long as the GOP is the MAGA party. I'd like to see Democrats entertain the populists less and to make a turn towards pro-market positions on matters like immigration and free trade so as to set themselves apart from the GOP which has turned its back on free markets in exchange for cultural grievances and protectionism.

Unfortunately Trump's win will send the opposite message, that the Dems should double down on populist slop to appeal to the mythical Obama-Trump or Biden-Trump voter. You see this with Biden even who blocked the acquisition of US Steel by Nippon Steel even though Nippon Steel promised no lay offs for a decade and was going to invest big money into our furnaces. Not to mention Japan is a critical ally in general and specifically against China and thus Nippon Steel is about the best foreign company to buy US Steel as you could point to. But Biden blocked it because from a populist POV its horrible optics to have filthy Asian foreigners buying our iconic US Steel, never mind all the mutual benefits for all involved.

The funny thing is those two posters you tagged are against the party going further left, but constantly makes excuses each time they do.

What do you mean? Can you think of an example?

 

[jeremyemilio]

Or, you know, it could be the MAGA people aren't the demons the mainstream press whose propaganda you swallowed for years have made them out to be, and they're ironically more willing to accommodate a populist, working-class driven big tent than the Democrats are.

You know, something explained by the OP of the thread itself; how even Democratic-leaning Americans believe the party has lost touch in its obsession with wokeism/DEI and liberal elites.

I feel like that's basically what I said?

 

[HereticBD]

I've said this before but the reason she lost is because of inflation.

ROFL!

So what was the reason she picked up ZERO delegates in the 2020 primaries? She mainly lost because the Democrats drove the country into the ground for four years, but she also lost because she's terrible and can't even answer a question in friendly confines. The fact that you thought Kamala Harris was a good candidate, should tell you where you are right now. Could've been Rosie O' fuckin'-donnel up there, and you'd be sucking her tits all the same. You have no independent thought.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

The once great Democratic Party is no longer the party for Americans, but rather the party for special interests and far left fruit loops.

But maybe Gavin can restore hope to the once grand party. Burning down Los Angeles is a good start.