Ishe Smith, Boxing, White Fighters and Race

People like supporting their own, no use getting all moral about who does it more/less. H8ers gonna h8 just let em be.
 
Seano said:
There are as many youtube videos and pro fighters on the flip side of the argument. I don't really care what any of them say. I also assumed it was bullshit until I really looked at it.
I just think it looks pretty suspicious. I can't think of a logical reason the glove would be flopping around like that, other than his hand is not all the way up there. Combine that with all those slapping hooks throughout the fight and its pretty fishy.
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Lol stop it bro.
 
Seano said:
Lomachenko is quite popular in the US. He's not some closely guarded secret that only a few european fans know about. He's a star because of American fans. If he hadn't left Europe, he'd still be an obscure nobody.
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He's still not popular enough to be on PPV even though Bob will force it soon. Fighting in America has helped a lot to build his profile but he has more fans in Europe than in America. A non-trivial number of those same fans watched both of his gold winning Olympic runs in 2008 & 2012. Had he never come to the States he still would've been known as one of the very best Olympic boxers to ever live and likely much more as a pro there. So, saying he would've still been a nobody is a ridiculous take. I can name quite a few boxers that made their names in Europe exclusively. Just out of the current crop of today's fighters there's Anthony Joshua who was already a big star internationally before he made his American debut against Ruiz (first fight).
 
Race is bullshit because everyone looks about as far as skin and then slams their brain into PARK.

The truth is that 9/10 times, poverty makes the best fighters. Look for a hard puncher, a good mover, a quick-thinker, a perpetual motion style, and it never comes down to colour.

Good mover? Willie Pep and Pernell Whitaker
Good puncher? George Foreman oandWlad Klitschko
Quick thinker? Floyd Mayweather and Vasyl Lomachenko
Good gas tank? Aaron Pryor and Rocky Marciano

Let's be specific to the U.S.A. Where did all the great Jewish, Italian, and Irish boxers go? They were overrunning the pro ranks from 1900's to the 1950's. It's no surprise that the expansion of the middle class following the Second World War dried up the white talent in boxing. Boxing is a sport where you can hurt and suffer regularly. Why do that if you can just roll out of bed and go to a job at a factory for 8 hours, then go home and crack open a beer? However--and I am being very specific to the U.S.A. here--the legacies of racism from institutionalized slavery kept many black people in an ongoing poverty cycle, or cycle of lower income. So, while you see fewer poor, white, migrant minorities in boxing like you used to in the United States, you will still see fair number of black fighters in the game.

I'm of course limiting the scope of this due to the thread topic's parameters, so please keep that in mind. (I come in peace!) At the end of the day, people are people. Every time I hear someone spout some argument for race, I tell them to look at context. There's your real answer. You always get way more answers from context than you do from skin colour.
 
Seano said:
The glove thing seems legit to me. There's plenty of photo and video evidence backing it up.
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Seano said:
I didn't believe it at first but the more vids I saw on it and the more I looked at Fury's punching technique in the Wilder fight- yeah he knew what he was doing.
fury-gloves-1.png

Who punches like that? Sorry, I have a lot of respect for Fury's heart. He's a tremendously skilled boxer but that shit is fishy as fuck. He's basically hooking bare knuckle with that left hand.



Come on man, you can't defend that.
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It's the way he throws punches with an open hand in the glove. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone who disagrees, but if you've boxed a considerable amount of time and don't have any preconceptions towards Fury, you'd see straight through this conspiracy.

Fury would be having hand surgery after every fight if he somehow managed to master this technique.



Is that big George's fist in the wrist section of the glove, or is he pawing with an open hand?

 
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Grill master said:
It's the way he throws punches with an open hand in the glove. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone who disagrees, but if you've boxed a considerable amount of time and don't have any preconceptions towards Fury, you'd see straight through this conspiracy.

Fury would be having hand surgery after every fight if he somehow managed to master this technique.



Is that big George's fist in the wrist section of the glove, or is he pawing with an open hand?

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Cunningham is a former Fury KO victim who's been salty about Fury since well before #glovegate. Joey Spencer isn't a credible source, either. Even Team Wilder isn't running with this excuse yet it hasn't stopped some Wilder fans & Fury detractors from going balls deep with it. Enough is enough.
 
MoreKane said:
oh you mean people like Cunningham that has a bias against Fury who Ishe already debunked....... or other people associated with the LDBC, yeah not really unbiased at all

open hand slaps are part of boxing....Ali and Calzaghe used to do it all the time
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Kovalev's "Man Bag" said:
Cunningham is a former Fury KO victim who's been salty about Fury since well before #glovegate. Joey Spencer isn't a credible source, either. Even Team Wilder isn't running with this excuse yet it hasn't stopped some Wilder fans & Fury detractors from going balls deep with it. Enough is enough.
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I'm glad you guys pointed that out, Steve Cunningham has been bitter towards Fury ever since he tore him a new arse at the press conference, and even more so now Tyson is back in the spotlight.

If the argument was that Fury was hitting with the open palm or wrist part of the glove with his lower forarm, fair play, but it's a rule that's never been closely scrutinised and those situations happens unintentionally thought the course or a normal fight.

My explanation - A slappy loose jap with an open hand is supposed to be thrown like a whip, a slight retraction of your hand (thumb facing upwards) before whipping it out to full extension so it slaps the face of your opponent (with the thumb still upwards), like a semi backhand. It's a range finder, it's not thrown with any follow through whatsoever.

The slappy hook Tyson throws is mechanically similar, slight retraction of the glove with an open hand (this is when the glove gives the 90' angle look) and a whip motion to the head with the hand still open, it's a set up punch for the power hand, and sometimes you land with the palm or wrist. You can throw 3 of these hooks in incredibly quick sussession, and you see slick fighter use this hook to menovour when pinned in a corner, 3 quick open handed hooks followed by a pivot and a hard straight down the pipe.
 
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Grill master said:
It's the way he throws punches with an open hand in the glove. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone who disagrees, but if you've boxed a considerable amount of time and don't have any preconceptions towards Fury, you'd see straight through this conspiracy.

Fury would be having hand surgery after every fight if he somehow managed to master this technique.



Is that big George's fist in the wrist section of the glove, or is he pawing with an open hand?

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george isn't punching when he does that, he did it with ali throughout the fight and even when he was falling his gloves were like that. dick saddler taught him to use that style, which was obviously used by sandy sadler, it was a way of controlling the opponent and parrying. It worked well, opponents reacted to it like the glove was where his head actually was and would instinctively stop moving in that direction, doing that on both sides made it easier to trap movers like pep.
 
mozfonky said:
george isn't punching when he does that, he did it with ali throughout the fight and even when he was falling his gloves were like that. dick saddler taught him to use that style, which was obviously used by sandy sadler, it was a way of controlling the opponent and parrying. It worked well, opponents reacted to it like the glove was where his head actually was and would instinctively stop moving in that direction, doing that on both sides made it easier to trap movers like pep.
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Respect for shouting out Sandy Sandler, Master of unorthodox swarmer style. Re the Foreman picture, the point was the hand can make a 'bent back' shape while fully inside the glove, the hand is not forced into the fist position when gloved.
 
MoreKane said:


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Those videos are really well done. That's some quality investigative reporting with highly credible independent sources (pro refs, pro trainers, pro boxers, cutmen, et al). They completely and objectively debunk #GloveGate point for point, claim for claim. Those videos should be required viewing on the topic.
 
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lol at people pretending that glove flopping around like that is normal.
I don't even really care much about it. Wilder lost. But to pretend you don't see something odd about that glove-
image.jpg

The entire padded area of the glove won't flop around like that if your hand is actually in it.
 
Seano said:
lol at people pretending that glove flopping around like that is normal.
I don't even really care much about it. Wilder lost. But to pretend you don't see something odd about that glove-
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The entire padded area of the glove won't flop around like that if your hand is actually in it.
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people have already posted detailed videos debunking it...they are looking at the same pictures as you are
no one's "pretending" to not see something
 
MoreKane said:
people have already posted detailed videos debunking it...they are looking at the same pictures as you are
no one's "pretending" to not see something
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And like I already said, no one has debunked or proven anything. You're just posting vids of people stating their opinions. I can post pros who agree something is not right there. Steve Cunningham, Dewey Cooper and George Groves all say it looks suspicious. Its not a race thing. There are black fighters on Fury's side and white fighters on Wilders side.
 
MoreKane said:
Ali is a cheat then
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A slapping shot is not technically illegal. Invoking a loved fighters name doesn't mean Fury didn't bend the rules either. It depends what part of the hand you hit with.
If you were to say bending the rules was part of boxing, fine. All sorts of great fighters have bent the rules to win. But stop pretending that glove flopping around like that is normal. Its clearly not.
 
mozfonky said:
still talking about this, my goodness.
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What do you think Mozfonky? You've probably watched as much boxing as anyone, does that glove look right to you, mainly the first punch in the video-




.
 
Seano said:
And like I already said, no one has debunked or proven anything. You're just posting vids of people stating their opinions. I can post pros who agree something is not right there. Steve Cunningham, Dewey Cooper and George Groves all say it looks suspicious. Its not a race thing. There are black fighters on Fury's side and white fighters on Wilders side.
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did you actually read what Groves said.... He said that the glove looked a little loose in the first fight but he doesn't think it was intentional cheating as it would provide hardly any advantage and twice the risk

Cunningham has a personal bone to pic with Fury. and Dewey said he could see some advantage, but doesn't actually acuse Fury of doing it or outright cheating

literally you have nothing bro. The commissions are laughing at it read the statements by NSAC and CSAC
 
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