HEAVYWEIGHT COACH (why the average coach shouldn't be training heavy weights)

[monkeyrhythm]

heavy weights are unique in the combat sports compendium and to get the best results out of your heavyweight you should have a heavyweight specialist coach who should have been a heavyweight competitor themselves...this is very basic scientific concept to maximize performance

That's not a scientific concept (basic or otherwise).

 

[-guerilla-]

No, I have seen the light, my brothers! LISS running eats muscles and lowers your testosterone levels so much you effectively switch gender! Look at what running did to this guy - turned him into a skinny, weak little pussy who could only win 3 Golds and a Silver at four different Olympcis! What a pathetic loser!

View attachment 686701

Maybee he would have got 4 golds if he WRESTLED for cardio

# Karelin GASSED

 

[j-boxing]

the most radical weight class is heavyweight [...] heavy weights require a different type of approach

Even if those statements are true, it doesn't follow that only HW coaches can optimise HW performance.

to get the best results out of your heavyweight you should have a heavyweight specialist coach who should have been a heavyweight competitor themselves...this is very basic scientific concept to maximize performance

That's a bare assertion, without argument, of the very same claim aboutvHW coaches you're trying to justify. You're begging the question. And I have no idea why you think it involves a basic concept of science.

a heavyweight competitor who is now an excellent coach will have a statistical advantage and thats what we are looking for in sports science

Is this claim about statistical advantage supposed to be a priori? Or do you have empirical grounds for it (beyond your own personal experience)? I will apply the principle of charity and assume you don't think it's a priori. So now you need to adduce substantial empirico-statistical evidence for it. (I suspect you don't have such evidence and you're just begging the question again.)

A smart heavyweight SPECIALIST coach knows your should NEVER "run for cardio" in combat athletics training.... ESPECIALLY YOUR HEAVYWEIGHTS!!!

If that's true, it's something knowable and implementable by non-HW coaches as well. So it doesn't follow that only HW coaches can optimise HW performance.

 

[-guerilla-]

if you’re coaching “champions” as you imply, then I would hope they would be dedicated enough to make time to do cardio work. Even (just as an example) a 3 mile run would take 25 minutes maximum and that’s being very generous.

I can’t agree that cycling and swimming give you a better cardio workout than running though. It’s fairly well regarded that a mile running is equivalent to approx 3-4 miles cycling (admittedly you can probably cycle 3-4 times faster than you can run if you get a move on).

Swimming is very good and something I did alongside Muay Thai... but outside of the Muay Thai gym, running has always been the staple for me (and everyone else at the gyms I’ve been at in the UK and Thailand).

If you can "make time" to train dont waste it on "running" for cardio when you could do something that is far more sport specific and has much more cardio demand in less time

If you have 2 hrs per day for training how many minutes should be dedicated to sustained running or jogging...is it better than ALL the other sport SPECIFIC exercises you COULD have been doing instead??

 

[-guerilla-]

Even if those statements are true, it doesn't follow that only HW coaches can optimise HW performance.



That's a bare assertion, without argument, of the very same claim aboutvHW coaches you're trying to justify. You're begging the question. And I have no idea why you think it involves a basic concept of science.



Is this claim about statistical advantage supposed to be a priori? Or do you have empirical grounds for it (beyond your own personal experience)? I will apply the principle of charity and assume you don't think it's a priori. So now you need to adduce substantial empirico-statistical evidence for it. (I suspect you don't have such evidence and you're just begging the question again.)



If that's true, it's something knowable and implementable by non-HW coaches as well. So it doesn't follow that only HW coaches can optimise HW performance.

you can't learn everything about the heavyweight division by studying heavy weights on your own

you have to be one to know all the subtleties

Do i have
Evidence that heavyweights have higher injury rates and knockout ratios???!!!

Thats combat sports 101!!!

Refresh my memory...whats your coaching/competition background??

* did you know ants are stronger than elephants?

 

[j-boxing]

Do i have
Evidence that heavyweights have higher injury rates and knockout ratios???!!!

Thats combat sports 101!!!

I didn't ask for evidence of KO ratios. I have no idea why you think I asked for that.

You made a claim about HW coaches having a statistical advantage in optimising the performance of HWs.

I asked for substantial emprico-statistical to justify that claim (since presumably it's not a priori).

As for my coaching and competition background, they are irrelevant. I am criticising your reasoning. Your demand to know these details about me is yet another fallacy to add to the list on this dismal thread.

 

[-guerilla-]

I didn't ask for evidence of KO ratios. I have no idea why you think I asked for that.

You made a claim about HW coaches having a statistical advantage in optimising the performance of HWs.

I asked for substantial emprico-statistical to justify that claim (since presumably it's not a priori).

As for my coaching and competition background, they are irrelevant. I am criticising your reasoning. Your demand to know these details about me is yet another fallacy to add to the list on this dismal thread.

Translation: o yeah but you cant "prove" it

Your background is deffinatly IRRELEVANT when you respond like that (every time)

Do your recon

Look up injury rates, punch output and knockout ratios on heavyweights

First recon combat sports
Then focus on heavyweights...

Get you science on
Then get back to the thread

# you have homework

 

[j-boxing]

Translation: o yeah but you cant "prove" it

Your background is deffinatly IRRELEVANT when you respond like that (every time)

Do your recon

Look up injury rates, punch output and knockout ratios on heavyweights

First recon combat sports
Then focus on heavyweights...

Get you science on
Then get back to the thread

# you have homework

What are you talking about, man?

I am not asking for stats on KO ratios, injury rates, and punch output. If you read my post again, that should be obvious. I can't really be any clearer.

I am asking for evidence or argument to support the claim you made that HW coaches having a statistical advantage in optimising the performance of HWs.

 

[-guerilla-]

What are you talking about, man?

I am not asking for stats on KO ratios, injury rates, and punch output. If you read my post again, that should be obvious. I can't really be any clearer.

I am asking for evidence or argument to support the claim you made that HW coaches having a statistical advantage in optimising the performance of HWs.

Exactly...your asking me to "prove" that heavyweight coaches train heavyweight athletes better than other coaches who are not heavyweights themselves

For that we would need quite the experiment and a time machine

Take lennox lewis from modern day...put him in a time machine and travel back to his youth and set him up with a heavyweight coach...then see if he does even better than he did before

After his 2nd career is over we would have some data...then we would have ro repete the experiment a few times with other athletes

(Im gonna have to get back to you in a few hundred years)

LOL

but seriously it's pretty obvious to any experienced coach that heavy weights have a different dynamic then the other weight classes and it follows logically that their coaches should be specialists in that their application is so different

can a lightweight LEARN to train a heavyweight?

...of course

will a heavyweight coach have some inherent advantages over the lightweight coach.... yes

heavy weights being radically different is a long understood Dynamic in combat Sports....

those of you with no coaching experience are probably unaware of this most basic of combat sports facts

Get your recon on....

"Heavyweight boxing is often described as a completely different sport, with legendary heavyweights such as Wladimir Klitschko, Mike Tyson and George Foreman boasting knockout percentages of over 80%. With heavyweights being such a different breed…. how should the big guys train"

http://boxingscience.co.uk/training-heavyweight-boxers-1/

 

[-guerilla-]

*SCHOOL BELL RINGS


"CONDITIONING STRATEGIES
So far, we’ve discussed the key limitations and strategies surrounding strength and movement training for heavyweights. However, we also need to consider how we get our heavyweights fit enough to be able to repeat and endure high intensity efforts over up to 12 rounds.

A larger athlete will experience higher compressive and reactive forces through their limbs whilst training or competing at their sport, due to their increased body mass. High intensity running will create a lot of shear impact force through the muscles, ligaments, bones and tendons of the lower limbs, and high volume running will increase the duration of time that an athlete experiences these impact forces over. This can increase the risk of injuries related to this such as stress fractures.

When a boxer or combat athlete is already experiencing a lot of impact forces in their boxing training already, through movement, footwork, and punching, off-feet conditioningmay be a better option.

Rowing or swimming may be suitable alternatives to high intensity running, however they have some technical demand, with technique often being the limiting factor towards achieving high intensities. We therefore opt for WattBike conditioning sessions, as this allows an athlete to reach high intensities with limited technical demand, providing a great stimulus for development of aerobic fitness"

http://boxingscience.co.uk/training-heavyweight-boxers-1/

*SCHOOL BELL RINGS

 

[monkeyrhythm]

*SCHOOL BELL RINGS


"CONDITIONING STRATEGIES
So far, we’ve discussed the key limitations and strategies surrounding strength and movement training for heavyweights. However, we also need to consider how we get our heavyweights fit enough to be able to repeat and endure high intensity efforts over up to 12 rounds.

A larger athlete will experience higher compressive and reactive forces through their limbs whilst training or competing at their sport, due to their increased body mass. High intensity running will create a lot of shear impact force through the muscles, ligaments, bones and tendons of the lower limbs, and high volume running will increase the duration of time that an athlete experiences these impact forces over. This can increase the risk of injuries related to this such as stress fractures.

When a boxer or combat athlete is already experiencing a lot of impact forces in their boxing training already, through movement, footwork, and punching, off-feet conditioningmay be a better option.

Rowing or swimming may be suitable alternatives to high intensity running, however they have some technical demand, with technique often being the limiting factor towards achieving high intensities. We therefore opt for WattBike conditioning sessions, as this allows an athlete to reach high intensities with limited technical demand, providing a great stimulus for development of aerobic fitness"

http://boxingscience.co.uk/training-heavyweight-boxers-1/

*SCHOOL BELL RINGS

Sorry dude, that entire post is incomprehensible to me as I only weigh 160 pounds...

 

[-guerilla-]

Sorry dude, that entire post is incomprehensible to me as I only weigh 160 pounds...

Well im certain you could LEARN how to train a heavyweight

However

if i was looking for the best possible coach for a heavyweight athlete I would pick a former heavyweight athlete because I KNOW they understand the clear and verifiable radical variables that effect the heavyweight classes of combat sports

All professional coaches understand heavyweights are the most unique of all classes but only the heavyweight coaches themselves are gaurenteed to understand all the variables

any vet can treat a horse however a horse specialist vet will be statistically better

This thread is designed to help the layman understand the differences between a general coach....a specialist coach and an actual coach who has been there and done that personally

 

[KnightTemplar]

Maybee he would have got 4 golds if he WRESTLED for cardio

# Karelin GASSED

 

[monkeyrhythm]

any vet can treat a horse however a horse specialist vet will be statistically better

And a vet who's actually a horse would be the best of all...

 

[wufabufa]

Well im certain you could LEARN how to train a heavyweight

However

if i was looking for the best possible coach for a heavyweight athlete I would pick a former heavyweight athlete because I KNOW they understand the clear and verifiable radical variables that effect the heavyweight classes of combat sports

All professional coaches understand heavyweights are the most unique of all classes but only the heavyweight coaches themselves are gaurenteed to understand all the variables

any vet can treat a horse however a horse specialist vet will be statistically better

This thread is designed to help the layman understand the differences between a general coach....a specialist coach and an actual coach who has been there and done that personally

And a vet who's actually a horse would be the best of all...

I agree. Only a Horse Vet should treat other horses.

 

[-guerilla-]

I agree. Only a Horse Vet should treat other horses.

You cant find an intelligent discussion very often on shedog but there is certainly some excellent humor

# beaten in logic resort to comedy

 

[-guerilla-]

And a vet who's actually a horse would be the best of all...

Cant even lead that to water

 

[-guerilla-]

I post scientific articles/videos and give professional first hand verifiable experienced accounts of athletic specialist coachIngs effect on niche athletics and i have people posting dress up animal comedy to contend with my message

You know i almost feel dirty but its nice to have all the attention

Science needs the bumps

One day sombody will read this and learn something

#shedog dont know science
#educate

 

[j-boxing]

Exactly...your asking me to "prove" that heavyweight coaches train heavyweight athletes better than other coaches who are not heavyweights themselves

For that we would need quite the experiment and a time machine

Take lennox lewis from modern day...put him in a time machine and travel back to his youth and set him up with a heavyweight coach...then see if he does even better than he did before

After his 2nd career is over we would have some data...then we would have ro repete the experiment a few times with other athletes

(Im gonna have to get back to you in a few hundred years)

LOL

but seriously it's pretty obvious to any experienced coach that heavy weights have a different dynamic then the other weight classes and it follows logically that their coaches should be specialists in that their application is so different

can a lightweight LEARN to train a heavyweight?

...of course

will a heavyweight coach have some inherent advantages over the lightweight coach.... yes

heavy weights being radically different is a long understood Dynamic in combat Sports....

those of you with no coaching experience are probably unaware of this most basic of combat sports facts

Get your recon on....

"Heavyweight boxing is often described as a completely different sport, with legendary heavyweights such as Wladimir Klitschko, Mike Tyson and George Foreman boasting knockout percentages of over 80%. With heavyweights being such a different breed…. how should the big guys train"

http://boxingscience.co.uk/training-heavyweight-boxers-1/

I'm not asking you to "prove" anything, if by "proof" you mean something absolutely conclusive.

All I'm asking for an argument/evidence to justify/support your claim that HW coaches have a statistical advantage in optimising the performance of HWs.

And you haven't given us any such thing. You just continue posting stuff about the unique aspects of HWs in combat sports.

But that information is knowable by non-HW coaches and implementable by them in training regimes for HWs.

I don't understand why you keep attacking me for lacking scientific/empirical knowledge. As I have said before, I am not disputing your scientific claims. I am criticising your reasoning.

 

[-guerilla-]

I'm not asking you to "prove" anything, if by "proof" you mean something absolutely conclusive.

All I'm asking for an argument/evidence to justify/support your claim that HW coaches have a statistical advantage in optimising the performance of HWs.

And you haven't given us any such thing. You just continue posting stuff about the unique aspects of HWs in combat sports.

But that information is knowable by non-HW coaches and implementable by them in training regimes for HWs.

I don't understand why you keep attacking me for lacking scientific/empirical knowledge. As I have said before, I am not disputing your scientific claims. I am criticising your reasoning.

I'm not attacking you far from it

at least you are trying to stay on subject while these other clowns are posting pictures of animals in silly costumes

The most popular post on my thread is a horse in a silly outfit!!!

Shedogs trollpharm is bursting at the seams with mommys little bullypruf keyboard rudebois

Classic shedog, 95% have 0% knowledge

Heavyweight athletes are very unique

This fact is well known

While a lighter weight coach can coach a heavyweight athlete in an optimal situation you should want a specialist coach for such a unique division

Nobody can LEARN everything associated with such a unique division if they havent experienced it

Whenever you challenge conventional wisdom people get upset especially if they have invested in it

If you were hiring coaches for a heavyweight athlete and you had one applicant that was a bantamweight and promised you he was experienced coaching heavyweights and had another applicant there was a heavyweight himself and had the exact same resume as the batemweight which one would you pick to coach your heavyweight athletes??