HEAVYWEIGHT COACH (why the average coach shouldn't be training heavy weights)

[-guerilla-]

15 years old [Gavin] ...FOUNDER OF THE LOUISVILLE MMA FIGHTCLUB

GREEN SHORTS

BLUE HAT

 

[Travs]

I was light-heavyweight...

When i was fighting I had the best cardio in the gym, in a gym that was renowned for having cardio-beasts...

surprise surprise, I did the most running.

just because you don’t like running, or it doesn’t work for you, doesn’t mean nobody should do it.

Running should never impact on your time on the mat/pads/drills/etc... but if you’re serious you should be putting the additional cardio work in at other times... whatever method you choose...

One thing running gives you over the likes of cycling/swimming/etc is strength and conditioning in the legs, you simply don’t get that as effectively in other forms of cardio. Possibly more important for striking sports than wrestling, I don’t know enough about wrestling technique to comment accurately on that.

 

[SRN]

Alexandwr karelin disagrees with your anti cardio stance:



http://rippeder.com/content/aleksandr-karelin-workout-routine

I'm happy to see I wasn't the only one thinking about Karelin's training.



Can you imagine how amazing would he be without all the unnecessary running? <Lmaoo>

And that's him with his tiny coach Kuznetsov.

 

[-guerilla-]

I was light-heavyweight...

When i was fighting I had the best cardio in the gym, in a gym that was renowned for having cardio-beasts...

surprise surprise, I did the most running.

just because you don’t like running, or it doesn’t work for you, doesn’t mean nobody should do it.

Running should never impact on your time on the mat/pads/drills/etc... but if you’re serious you should be putting the additional cardio work in at other times... whatever method you choose...

One thing running gives you over the likes of cycling/swimming/etc is strength and conditioning in the legs, you simply don’t get that as effectively in other forms of cardio. Possibly more important for striking sports than wrestling, I don’t know enough about wrestling technique to comment accurately on that.

It has nothing to do with my enjoyment of running or not....

Try not to think about me personally but focus on the science of the thread

it has to do with the immediate marked and highly recognizeable increase in performance out of my wrestling team AFTER i eliminated running

If you have two hours per day of Mat time you shouldn't spend one second of that running for cardio

Bag work padwork Polymerics/ hiit cycling Hill sprints swimming rolling wrestling or MMA all have a much higher cardiovascular demand than running

Running is a vacation compared to pad work sparring or grappling!!

that's like saying to get better at racing formula cars you should spend a good portion of your time racing go karts...

nobody does that

the Checkmate statement/question in this thread is simple

if you have two hours of training time per day how many minutes should you spend "running for cardio"....ZERO

If you cant swim, cycle, polymerics, hiit drills, sparring, bag work, Rolling, wrestling or MMA...then run for cardio

its deffently better than not exercising at all but not as good as all the things i just listed

 

[-guerilla-]

I'm happy to see I wasn't the only one thinking about Karelin's training.



Can you imagine how amazing would he be without all the unnecessary running? <Lmaoo>

And that's him with his tiny coach Kuznetsov.

AND HE GASSED AGAINST THIS GUY!!!


Alexander Karelin GASSED OUT

THATS WHY HE COULDENT SCORE A SINGLE POINT vs this fat dairy farmer!!!


# shedog don't know wrestling

 

[SRN]

He was 43 years old!!

@KnightTemplar his reply to me was painful to read. He's either slow or a troll, who knows. Don't waste your time bud.

 

[j-boxing]

He was 43 years old!!

@KnightTemplar his reply to me was painful to read. He's either slow or a troll, who knows. Don't waste your time bud.

Yes. He's out of his mind. An absurd thread full of fallacies and delusions of grandeur.

 

[wufabufa]

Yes. He's out of his mind. An absurd thread full of fallacies and delusions of grandeur.

Almost as good as some of those @spacetime threads.

 

[-guerilla-]

The following statement is mindblowing for fickle young men with little experience and a poor understanding of basic science

Sustained running is bad for combat athletics cardio

HIIT training bag work cycling and or swimming is second best

Rolling for submission, wrestling, muaythai or MMA is best

 

[j-boxing]

The following statement is mindblowing for fickle young men with little experience and a poor understanding of basic science

Sustained running is bad for combat athletics cardio

HIIT training bag work cycling and or swimming is second best

Rolling for submission, wrestling, muaythai or MMA is best

For my own part, I haven't contradicted any of those statements. And not one of them blows my mind, not even close to it. Almost everything has been asserted in the health, fitness, and combat sport industries. Why would your triad of statements blow my mind given all the other stuff people say? For all I know, you may be right.

All I have done in this thread is point out that your original claim that only HWs should train HWs does not follow from anything you have said. It simply doesn't. If you've made a case for anything, it's that coaches should take into consideration the specific physical characteristics of athletes when designing programs.

But I'm not sure why you bothered, as presumably no one seriously disagrees with that nowadays. It's trivial. And your hashtagging and bragging are just stupid. What is the point of it all?

 

[Travs]

Not sure where I said that running time should impact on your mat/pad/drill time.... I think I said that any cardio work should be done additionally, not as a replacement to your normal sessions.

here’s a statement that might blow YOUR mind.... hill sprints are a form of running... and a good base of longer distance running will allow you to perform hill sprints faster and longer, which you have already stated carries over to the mat well.

 

[-guerilla-]

For my own part, I haven't contradicted any of those statements. And not one of them blows my mind, not even close to it. Almost everything has been asserted in the health, fitness, and combat sport industries. Why would your triad of statements blow my mind given all the other stuff people say? For all I know, you may be right.

All I have done in this thread is point out that your original claim that only HWs should train HWs does not follow from anything you have said. It simply doesn't. If you've made a case for anything, it's that coaches should take into consideration the specific physical characteristics of athletes when designing programs.

But I'm not sure why you bothered, as presumably no one seriously disagrees with that nowadays. It's trivial. And your hashtagging and bragging are just stupid. What is the point of it all?

"Only heavyweight coaches should train heavyweight athletes"

you have to take it in its proper context and I can understand why you are confused

when I say only heavy weights should train other heavy weights I don't mean it should be illegal for a bantemweight coach to train a heavyweight athlete what I'm saying is that in a perfect world...in a optimized situation only heavy weights would train heavy weights because heavyweight Athletics are so different

You are taking the verbatim with juvenile literary

When somebody says you "should" take a shower before your date they dont mean that you cant go on the date without taking a shower or they want to behead head if you did

Lets use the statement in a sentence...

"For the best possible results only heavyweight coaches should train heavyweight athletes because heavyweights are so different"

 

[-guerilla-]

Not sure where I said that running time should impact on your mat/pad/drill time.... I think I said that any cardio work should be done additionally, not as a replacement to your normal sessions.

here’s a statement that might blow YOUR mind.... hill sprints are a form of running... and a good base of longer distance running will allow you to perform hill sprints faster and longer, which you have already stated carries over to the mat well.

I agree you never said running should impact your mat time

You specifically said it should NOT

And i agreed...

So when ARE you gonna run then??

The whole POINT its that your training time is very limited and you shouldn't WASTE it doing something like running for cardio

Use 100% of your time doing something more demanding than running like swimming cycling bag/pad work grappling or MMA

*HIIT/sprint are NOT what im talking about

I specifically said that multiple times throughout the thread

 

[monkeyrhythm]

j-boxing gave you the benefit of the doubt with:

If you've made a case for anything, it's that coaches should take into consideration the specific physical characteristics of athletes when designing programs.

That sounds fair enough to me.

But you're apparently saying that a trainer must themselves share the same physical characteristics as the trainee to provide optimal training!? How far does that extend? Do you also subscribe to the following statements?

"For the best possible results only female coaches should train female athletes because females are so different"
or
"For the best possible results only left-handed coaches should train left-handed athletes because left-handers are so different"
?

 

[-guerilla-]

j-boxing gave you the benefit of the doubt with:

That sounds fair enough to me.

But you're apparently saying that a trainer must themselves share the same physical characteristics as the trainee to provide optimal training!? How far does that extend? Do you also subscribe to the following statements?

"For the best possible results only female coaches should train female athletes because females are so different"
or
"For the best possible results only left-handed coaches should train left-handed athletes because left-handers are so different"
?

I never really thought of it that way but now that you brought it up it makes perfect scientific sense to me

the point is most Illustrated in heavyweight combat Athletics

anybody that has any exposure to the sports whatsoever is painfully aware that the heavyweight division functions differently then all the others weightclasses

Anybody can train a heavyweight it's just that there is a better option out there... just because you won a fight with a rock doesn't mean a rock is the best weapon

To optimize your heavyweights performance you SHOULD HAVE (in a "perfect") world a heavyweight coach or at the VERY LEAST a heavyweight SPECIALIST coach

... I have oftentimes brought up boxing trainers who are some of the most effective in their field yet have never even competed in the sport themselves much less match their students weightclasse

Its far to easy to fall into a hero worship mentality

Ali, Karelin....pinnicles of their sports, that still doesnt mean they couldent have been EVEN BETTER

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelo_Dundee

 

[KnightTemplar]

He was 43 years old!!

@KnightTemplar his reply to me was painful to read. He's either slow or a troll, who knows. Don't waste your time bud.

No, I have seen the light, my brothers! LISS running eats muscles and lowers your testosterone levels so much you effectively switch gender! Look at what running did to this guy - turned him into a skinny, weak little pussy who could only win 3 Golds and a Silver at four different Olympcis! What a pathetic loser!

 

[monkeyrhythm]

I never really thought of it that way but now that you brought it up it makes perfect scientific sense to me

the point is most Illustrated in heavyweight combat Athletics

anybody that has any exposure to the sports whatsoever is painfully aware that the heavyweight division functions differently then all the others weightclasses

Anybody can train a heavyweight it's just that there is a better option out there... just because you won a fight with a rock doesn't mean a rock is the best weapon

To optimize your heavyweights performance you SHOULD HAVE (in a "perfect") world a heavyweight coach or at the VERY LEAST a heavyweight SPECIALIST coach

... I have oftentimes brought up boxing trainers who are some of the most effective in their field yet have never even competed in the sport themselves much less match their students weightclasse

Its far to easy to fall into a hero worship mentality

Ali, Karelin....pinnicles of their sports, that still doesnt mean they couldent have been EVEN BETTER

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelo_Dundee

IMO the very best coaches are able to understand the nuances of who they're coaching and adapt their teaching accordingly. Without a doubt weight class is a significant factor, however it's just one of many. Coaches who can really understand the individual and work out how to get the best out of them exist but they're rare; that's the lowest denominator. How much they weigh themselves is comparatively inconsequential.

I can see how bringing in a sport specialist trainer when his experience is with a particular (different) type of fighter would have limited success. That's not the same as an excellent coach who has real time with the fighter though.

 

[-guerilla-]

IMO the very best coaches are able to understand the nuances of who they're coaching and adapt their teaching accordingly. Without a doubt weight class is a significant factor, however it's just one of many. Coaches who can really understand the individual and work out how to get the best out of them exist but they're rare; that's the lowest denominator. How much they weigh themselves is comparatively inconsequential.

I can see how bringing in a sport specialist trainer when his experience is with a particular (different) type of fighter would have limited success. That's not the same as an excellent coach who has real time with the fighter though.

there is a lot of mythology and Superstition related to the combat Sports and frankly it's niche industry so most fighters have to take the coach they can get but if we look at this situation from a purely scientific standpoint and try to maximize every variable for success it is abundantly clear that the most radical weight class is heavyweight

one needs to look no further than injury rate or knockout ratio to see a heavy statistical variance in the heavyweight Division as compared to the other classes

those of us with decades of professional coaching experience are very well aware that the heavy weights require a different type of approach however there are a lot of people who are trying to sell a secret strategy to the general public when the answer is much more simple then that

heavy weights are unique in the combat sports compendium and to get the best results out of your heavyweight you should have a heavyweight specialist coach who should have been a heavyweight competitor themselves...this is very basic scientific concept to maximize performance

it's not that other people can't train heavyweights to an excellent degree

it's that a heavyweight competitor who is now an excellent coach will have a statistical advantage and thats what we are looking for in sports science

A smart heavyweight SPECIALIST coach knows your should NEVER "run for cardio" in combat athletics training.... ESPECIALLY YOUR HEAVYWEIGHTS!!!

 

[j-boxing]

"For the best possible results only heavyweight coaches should train heavyweight athletes because heavyweights are so different"

I understand that that's what you're claiming about HWs.

And I'm saying that it does not follow from what you have said in your posts.

 

[Travs]

I agree you never said running should impact your mat time

You specifically said it should NOT

And i agreed...

So when ARE you gonna run then??

The whole POINT its that your training time is very limited and you shouldn't WASTE it doing something like running for cardio

Use 100% of your time doing something more demanding than running like swimming cycling bag/pad work grappling or MMA

*HIIT/sprint are NOT what im talking about

I specifically said that multiple times throughout the thread

if you’re coaching “champions” as you imply, then I would hope they would be dedicated enough to make time to do cardio work. Even (just as an example) a 3 mile run would take 25 minutes maximum and that’s being very generous.

I can’t agree that cycling and swimming give you a better cardio workout than running though. It’s fairly well regarded that a mile running is equivalent to approx 3-4 miles cycling (admittedly you can probably cycle 3-4 times faster than you can run if you get a move on).

Swimming is very good and something I did alongside Muay Thai... but outside of the Muay Thai gym, running has always been the staple for me (and everyone else at the gyms I’ve been at in the UK and Thailand).