International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VI

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They are only in a position to go after individual leaders because they actively went into Gaza and physically removed hamas. It was the only way for regime change in Gaza.

For a new government to be put in place, the existing one has to be kicked out.

You speak in abstracts, as if wishing for a new government works. Or that you can just target individuals.

And you speak in strange and obviously false narratives about how 'they must be allowed to kill citizens (by mistake) in order to remove a governing party'.

Does that genuinely make sense to you?

As I've said they can kill Hamas in a targeted manner, but nobody should support a continued campaign 'as is'.

Notice how they can target Hezbollah in Lebanon even while they don't wish to carpet bomb Lebanon?

And don't give me that 'but Gaza is tightly packed' rubbish, they are capable of targeting individual vehicles with drones, they've shown it by targeting Hezbollah commanders with minimal collateral and they've targeted journalists like this too.
 
This is a ridiculous take.

Being religious doesn't mean you require or are entitled to a 'nation of your religion'.

You can practice your religion in many nations, you should be able to practice it in all nations, but that's probably not practicable.

But what you don't need is a 'home' country for your religion.

If that was ever promised to anyone, it was likely never theirs to promise.

Religions are practiced by people not countries.
Over 2000 years of persecution says I need a home country for my religion.

Religions may be practiced by people but they are established and protected in many, many countries.

More than 80 countries either have an official religion or favor one or more religious groups over others, according to a new Pew Research Center report.Oct 3, 2017.

Unfortunately, not all countries are America and there's no guarantee here either.
 
Bibi and anyone that approved settlements on occupied lands should be prosecuted for breaking the 4th Geneva Convention.
If the Palestinian government signed the Oslo Accords which put the status of Israeli settlements to be negotiated at some unspecified later date, how are settlements in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Seems kind of strange, no?
 
And you speak in strange and obviously false narratives about how 'they must be allowed to kill citizens (by mistake) in order to remove a governing party'.

Does that genuinely make sense to you?
the idea that you can kill hamas one at a time and force regime change that way is just not at all possible. it's ridiculous.

and it's unfortunate but a certainty that civilians will die in a war where the enemy is integrated within civilian spaces and fights within civilian spaces without any identifying clothing. which of course is a war crime in itself.

the governing party includes their military.
As I've said they can kill Hamas in a targeted manner, but nobody should support a continued campaign 'as is'.
the campaign is continually changing. as already posted they are moving to new phase of the war........
Notice how they can target Hezbollah in Lebanon even while they don't wish to carpet bomb Lebanon?
notice they are playing patty cake with hezbollah and hezbollah will still be firing at israel.
And don't give me that 'but Gaza is tightly packed' rubbish, they are capable of targeting individual vehicles with drones, they've shown it by targeting Hezbollah commanders with minimal collateral and they've targeted journalists like this too.
gaza is tightly packed, with tens of thousands of hamas (and other terrorist) fighters and maybe more. and like i said, hezbollah will continue doing what they do.
 
If the Palestinian government signed the Oslo Accords which put the status of Israeli settlements to be negotiated at some unspecified later date, how are settlements in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Seems kind of strange, no?

Do you believe settlements began in 1993?

Article 49(6) of the convention:

"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."
 
the idea that you can kill hamas one at a time and force regime change that way is just not at all possible. it's ridiculous.

and it's unfortunate but a certainty that civilians will die in a war where the enemy is integrated within civilian spaces and fights within civilian spaces without any identifying clothing. which of course is a war crime in itself.

the governing party includes their military.

the campaign is continually changing. as already posted they are moving to new phase of the war........

notice they are playing patty cake with hezbollah and hezbollah will still be firing at israel.

gaza is tightly packed, with tens of thousands of hamas (and other terrorist) fighters and maybe more. and like i said, hezbollah will continue doing what they do.

So between us, there is no solution.

Which is, ironically, probably the most honest assessment either of us can make.
 
Do you believe settlements began in 1993?

Article 49(6) of the convention:

"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."
Sure, but the "Occupied Power" has at least tentatively agreed that the settlements may still exist and didn't call for them to removed.

Really, the point I'm making here is that the settlements may be illegal but let's not conflate them with actual war crimes (murder, rape, use of human shields, etc.) that have been committed by Hamas.
 
Sure, but the "Occupied Power" has at least tentatively agreed that the settlements may still exist and didn't call for them to removed.

Really, the point I'm making here is that the settlements may be illegal but let's not conflate them with actual war crimes (murder, rape, use of human shields, etc.) that have been committed by Hamas.

I'll agree that what Hamas did is more outwardly vile, heinous and blood thirsty, but what Likud has done will be felt by the entire region for generations to come. Likud has destroyed the possibility of a contiguous Palestinian state in the West Bank and has damaged the Palestinians psyche immensely. Their loss of land, violation of rights, restriction of movement, impact on their identities/mental health have contributed to the escalation of violence and has indirectly caused countless deaths these past 60 years. The worst thing is that there's no end in sight, for decades to come, Likud are going to keep evicting Arabs in East Jerusalem, keep settling in the West Bank until they have Judea and Samaria back. You don't see this as a war crime spanning the past 60 years?
 
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I'll agree that what Hamas did is more outwardly vile, heinous and blood thirsty, but what Likud has done will be felt by the entire region for generations to come. Likud has destroyed the possibility of a contiguous Palestinian state in the West Bank and has damaged the Palestinians psyche immensely. Their loss of land, violation of rights, restriction of movement, impact on their identities/mental health have contributed to the escalation of violence and has indirectly caused countless deaths these past 60 years. The worst thing is that there's no end in sight, for decades to come, Likud are going to keep evicting Arabs in East Jerusalem, keep settling in the West Bank until they have Judea and Samaria back. You don't see this as a war crime spanning the past 60 years?
I think this is way overplayed by a lot.

That said, why the focus on Likud? It accounts for just over 25% of the seats in the Knesset. Israel isn't a two-party country, like the US.

Obviously, it's policies are generally supported by a lot more than Likud voters. Likud doesn't control Israel in the sense that Hamas controls Gaza. It's a democracy where the slight majority of Israelis seem to generally support its policies. It's not like Netanyahu has pulled the wool over everybody's eyes or has coerced the Israeli body politic.

This constant condemnation of Likud like some boogieman is silly. It's like condemning Republicans for something on a bi-partisan vote.

FWIW, the Israeli public is almost evenly split on whether the settlements were a good idea or not.
 
 

Three months in, Western diplomats try to stop Gaza war’s spread​


By Ari Rabinovitch and Simon Lewis Reuters

Top U.S and European diplomats sought ways on Sunday to keep the Gaza war from spreading further in the Middle East, but three months after the start of the conflict, more bloodshed underlined the difficulties they face.

Israeli aircraft fired on Palestinian militants who had attacked troops in the occupied West Bank on Sunday, the military said, and Palestinian health officials said six Palestinians were killed in the strike.

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An Israeli border police officer was killed and others wounded when their vehicle was hit by an explosive device during operations in the West Bank city of Jenin, the military and police said.

The West Bank had already seen its highest levels of unrest in decades during the 18 months before the Oct. 7 attack on Israel by the militant Hamas group that rules Gaza. Confrontations in the West Bank have risen sharply since Israeli forces launched their retaliatory offensive on Gaza, laying waste to the Palestinian enclave as they seek to wipe out Hamas.

In the West Bank, hundreds of Palestinians have been killed in clashes with Israeli soldiers and settlers over the past weeks and security forces have made thousands of arrests.

U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and the European Union’s top diplomat, Josep Borrell, were on separate trips to the region to try to quell spillover from the war into Lebanon, the West Bank and Red Sea shipping lanes.

Blinken was in Jordan on Sunday, after stops in Turkey and Greece, while Borrell was on a trip to Lebanon. Both said their priority was quelling spillover from the Gaza war.

“We have an intense focus on preventing this conflict from spreading,” said Blinken, who will also travel to Israel, the West Bank, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Egypt during his fourth trip to the region.

Israeli military spokesperson Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari gave a roundup of the offensive on Saturday, saying Israeli forces had completed dismantled Hamas’ “military framework” in northern Gaza and had killed around 8,000 militants in that area.

“We are now focused on dismantling Hamas in the centre of and south of the (Gaza) strip,” he said in an online briefing.

“Fighting will continue during 2024. We are operating according to a plan to achieve the war’s goals, to dismantle Hamas in the north and south,” Hagari said.

The Oct. 7 Hamas rampage in southern Israel killed 1,200 people and 240 were taken hostage, according to Israeli officials. More than 100 hostages are still believed to be held by Hamas.

Israel’s offensive has so far killed 22,722 Palestinians, according to Palestinian health officials on Saturday.

Israel has signalled a shift in recent days to scale down forces while facing international pressure over the mounting death toll and humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

Palestinian health ministry casualty figures do not differentiate between fighters and civilians, but the ministry has said that 70% of Gaza’s dead are women and people under 18.

The fighting has displaced most of the enclave’s 2.3 million population, with many homes and civilian infrastructure left in ruins amid acute shortages of food, water and medicine.

https://www.timesofearth.com/2024/0...stern-diplomats-try-to-stop-gaza-wars-spread/
 

Imagine supporting Israel as they murder women and children
Their politicians say it all the time, they don't see Palestinians and humans (probably don't see us as humans either)
Many such cases. These terrorists are up there at the same level with ISIS, only difference is they wear uniforms and are Jewish
 
When did I say they would be "unconditionally welcomed and safe." There is no place like that for anyone anywhere.

No one is 100% safe everywhere. There is always some level of basic crime in most places and more crime in poorer countries like Latin America. Save maybe the Asian countries where violent crime rate is really rare.



My initial reply was to someone complaining the US might be getting too violent for Jewish people and Israel is the only safe haven. Yea that's cap. Jewish people are not being violently attacked en masse in the US.
Dude, people are actually saying that Israel shouldn’t occupy, displace, and kill Palestinians… can you believe that people who experienced the Holocaust and/or their descendants have to listen to this crap?! Haven’t they already suffered enough?!

<Ellaria01>
 
Almost sounds like he’s saying Hamas should remain in power because whoever would replace them would be just as hateful of Israel due to Israel’s retaliation. Let them terrorize every so often with impunity because it’s inevitable
I think Hamas should go, if only because they are who Israel wanted in power so that Israel could achieve it’s ultimate ends… I doubt most people who support/ed Hamas knew that Israel actually promoted them to sew dissent in Palestine.
 

Imagine supporting Israel as they murder women and children
Their politicians say it all the time, they don't see Palestinians and humans (probably don't see us as humans either)
Many such cases. These terrorists are up there at the same level with ISIS, only difference is they wear uniforms and are Jewish


Up the thread it was already posted that Hamas did it to keep the civilians close to them so they wouldn't escape.

Since we now have conflicting reports, I'm going to go with...

{<shrug}

I pray for that poor victim.
 


Imagine supporting Israel as they murder women and children
Their politicians say it all the time, they don't see Palestinians and humans (probably don't see us as humans either)
Many such cases. These terrorists are up there at the same level with ISIS, only difference is they wear uniforms and are Jewish


How do both of you have the same video with two completely different headlines?
 
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