International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VI

[freakroor]

Maybe Israel shouldn't ignore it's own border intelligence force (all women and they paid the ultimate price), the Egyptian intelligence service's warnings and station more security on the border when Hamas drill attacking mock IDF stations in plain sight for months on end?

ok so what if israel agrees to a ceasefire and then hamas launches rockets into israeli cities?

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Senior Hezbollah commander killed by Israeli strike named​

The senior Hezbollah figure who has been killed in a strike on south Lebanon has been identified as Wissam Tawil, the deputy head of a unit within the group's elite Radwan force, Reuters news agency reports.
Citing three security sources, Reuters says Tawil and another Hezbollah fighter were killed when their car was hit in a strike on the Lebanese village of Majdal Selm.
"This is a very painful strike," one of the security sources says.
Another adds: "Things will flare up now."
Hezbollah's leadyer Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah has previously warned Israel not to launch a full-scale war on Lebanon.

---

Speaking of escalations.

Possibly a response to this?

IDF admits Mount Meron air traffic control base damaged in Hezbollah attack

Terror group's video shows radar domes being hit by missiles Saturday; IDF says unit still functioning on backup systems; army response included strikes on Hezbollah compounds

www.timesofisrael.com

The Israel Defense Forces on Sunday admitted damage was caused to a sensitive air traffic control base in northern Israel following a Hezbollah missile attack a day prior, which the terror group said was a response to the alleged Israeli killing of Hamas terror chief Saleh al-Arouri in Lebanon last week.
Hezbollah fired a barrage of more than 40 rockets and several missiles at the base atop Mount Meron, which is located some eight kilometers (5 miles) from the Lebanon border.
The IDF did not elaborate on the damage to the base, but according to footage published by the terror group, two radar domes were hit by anti-tank guided missiles.

 

[Blayt7hh]

The US for sure needs to put pressure on sooner rather than later. They're clearly doing so behind the scenes, but as the continued destabilization of Middle Eastern security ratchets up, the US will continue to get dragged in further and further. The security of it's own international military outposts is already at serious risk.

It will only get worse until Netanyahu is deposed and the IDF reined in by someone with an ounce of sense.

I think that is probably wishful thinking. The US isn't the only one with vested intrests in stabilizing the region. It benefits many of the countries there too. The US bases while under threat aren't really at risk of being destroyed as the fire power they have backing them up is overwhelming. It is entirely possible we get sucked into a confrontation with the Houthis on land, which I hope doesn't happen.

The second part is really only looking at it from the Palestinian perspective which I get because they surely are suffering and by the grace of God it's not us in their having to live through that. But that solution ignores Israel's need to eliminate Hamas. That has to happen and I have yet seen a legitimate alternative course of action. We know why that is too- because there is no other way to pursue them. I don't see this as anyone getting what they deserve. I truly think it's just an ugly reality.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

I think that is probably wishful thinking. The US isn't the only one with vested intrests in stabilizing the region. It benefits many of the countries there too. The US bases while under threat aren't really at risk of being destroyed as the fire power they have backing them up is overwhelming. It is entirely possible we get sucked into a confrontation with the Houthis on land, which I hope doesn't happen.

The second part is really only looking at it from the Palestinian perspective which I get because they surely are suffering and by the grace of God it's not us in their having to live through that. But that solution ignores Israel's need to eliminate Hamas. That has to happen and I have yet seen a legitimate alternative course of action. We know why that is too- because there is no other way to pursue them. I don't see this as anyone getting what they deserve. I truly think it's just an ugly reality.

I agree largely with your sentiments, except one glaring one: what Israel is doing isn't likely to bring stabilization to the region, and only really USA seems to see it that way.

The USA is almost getting in it's own way.

You're right, lots of nations have a vested interest in stabilization of the Middle East, and a high, high percentage of countries including Western nations are now backing a full and total ceasefire.

 

[SammyPops]

Senior Hezbollah commander killed by Israeli strike named​

The senior Hezbollah figure who has been killed in a strike on south Lebanon has been identified as Wissam Tawil, the deputy head of a unit within the group's elite Radwan force, Reuters news agency reports.
Citing three security sources, Reuters says Tawil and another Hezbollah fighter were killed when their car was hit in a strike on the Lebanese village of Majdal Selm.
"This is a very painful strike," one of the security sources says.
Another adds: "Things will flare up now."
Hezbollah's leadyer Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah has previously warned Israel not to launch a full-scale war on Lebanon.

---

Speaking of escalations.

Possibly a response to this?

IDF admits Mount Meron air traffic control base damaged in Hezbollah attack

Terror group's video shows radar domes being hit by missiles Saturday; IDF says unit still functioning on backup systems; army response included strikes on Hezbollah compounds

www.timesofisrael.com

The Israel Defense Forces on Sunday admitted damage was caused to a sensitive air traffic control base in northern Israel following a Hezbollah missile attack a day prior, which the terror group said was a response to the alleged Israeli killing of Hamas terror chief Saleh al-Arouri in Lebanon last week.
Hezbollah fired a barrage of more than 40 rockets and several missiles at the base atop Mount Meron, which is located some eight kilometers (5 miles) from the Lebanon border.
The IDF did not elaborate on the damage to the base, but according to footage published by the terror group, two radar domes were hit by anti-tank guided missiles.

Israel is doing everything they can to drag the US into this war and their colonization of gaza and teh WB. They need US citizens to die for Zionism for the US critisim to stop.

That is why they are now killing civilians in the WB.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Will nitpick a bit , its USA which has the ability to wage western warfare which we have seen, europes offensive ability is about zero thanks to stuff that came out due to ukr.

Btw mentioning generally that nato stepped in balkan wars at 40k civvy casualty rate

I mean that's not really nitpicking since I said they pretty much all rely on America to be the one leading interventions. Thats both NATO and the UN.

The Balkan war was also a lot closer to home. I don't know a whole lot about why NATO intervened but I know genocide was the stated reason fore intervention. There is no way in hell that the US intervenes militarily against Israel. Apply pressure and withdraw support maybe, but definitely we will never bomb them or put boots on ground there.

 

[Blayt7hh]

I agree largely with your sentiments, except one glaring one: what Israel is doing isn't likely to bring stabilization to the region, and only really USA seems to see it that way.

The USA is almost getting in it's own way.

You're right, lots of nations have a vested interest in stabilization of the Middle East, and a high, high percentage of countries including Western nations are now backing a full and total ceasefire.

I'm not suggesting it's stabilizing the region. It's definitely made things worse. I am just saying I don't foresee anyone in the area being able to do enough damage to detour the US from supporting Israel.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

I'm not suggesting it's stabilizing the region. It's definitely made things worse. I am just saying I don't foresee anyone in the area being able to do enough damage to detour the US from supporting Israel.

Lebanon seem to be getting steadily drawn in.

Iran joining the fray would be a disaster, and given both Hamas and Hezbollah have been backed by Iran, it's not impossible.

 

[Rational Poster]

Lebanon seem to be getting steadily drawn in.

Iran joining the fray would be a disaster, and given both Hamas and Hezbollah have been backed by Iran, it's not impossible.

( Iran is already as involved as it could ever possibly be, they're 2000 miles away and would have to fight through 3 carrier battle grounds to deliver one missile)

 

[kflo]

Are you talking about the temporary truce, that both sides violated throughout on a much smaller scale?

I think that would be acceptable, to be fair.

Anything much smaller scale would be much better than what we've got now.

But as @aries suggests, and I don't agree with them, but if the IDF aren't capable of stopping themselves slaughtering tens of thousands of Palestinian citizens, NATO will eventually have to step in.

They cannot be allowed to kill hundreds of thousands of people, which is ultimately where we're headed, and where excuse makers insist we head.

they should negotiate a ceasefire with hamas, the group that promised to 10/7 over and over?

and they (and everyone else) should just let hamas continue to "govern" and lead gaza?

 

[Deleted member 585708]

they should negotiate a ceasefire with hamas, the group that promised to 10/7 over and over?

and they (and everyone else) should just let hamas continue to "govern" and lead gaza?

I wouldn't advise leaving Hamas to govern Gaza, nor would I have advised it when Israel actually did allow Hamas to govern Gaza for so long - for whatever reasons they had that have now backfired.

I've actually answered this kind of question before - to you - so I don't know why you're assuming this is my position.

 

[kflo]

I wouldn't advise leaving Hamas to govern Gaza, nor would I have advised it when Israel actually did allow Hamas to govern Gaza for so long - for whatever reasons they had that have now backfired.

I've actually answered this kind of question before - to you - so I don't know why you're assuming this is my position.

how would they accomplish "regime change" without militarily doing regime change?

it's easy to just say "don't allow hamas to govern". but it's meaningless.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

how would they accomplish "regime change" without militarily doing regime change?

it's easy to just say "don't allow hamas to govern". but it's meaningless.

You can't "militarily do regime change", that's meaningless in itself.

"We have killed your ruling party, please don't replace them like-for-like even though you hate us even more now we've bombed you to shit" is your preferred strategy?

 

[PhitePhan]

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Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent

www.independent.co.uk

"Israel has admitted for the first time that it has been giving Ethiopian Jewish immigrants birth-control injections, often without their knowledge or consent.

The government had previously denied the practice but the Israeli Health Ministry’s director-general has now ordered gynaecologists to stop administering the drugs. According a report in Haaretz, suspicions were first raised by an investigative journalist, Gal Gabbay, who interviewed more than 30 women from Ethiopia in an attempt to discover why birth rates in the community had fallen dramatically."

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

You can't "militarily do regime change", that's meaningless in itself.

"We have killed your ruling party, please don't replace them like-for-like even though you hate us even more now we've bombed you to shit" is your preferred strategy?

I think the Israelis are going to present a plan to divide Gaza into different sectors or "emirates" ruled by local clans rather than a single political entity. They could also have Egypt escort Fatah into the Gaza so they can assist with the transition of power. Hopefully this is over soon, and both Hamas and Likud are gone.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

I think the Israelis are going to present a plan to divide Gaza into different sectors or "emirates" ruled by local clans rather than a single political entity. They could also have Egypt escort Fatah into the Gaza so they can assist with the transition of power. Hopefully this is over soon, and both Hamas and Likud are gone.

Amen.

 

[kflo]

You can't "militarily do regime change", that's meaningless in itself.

"We have killed your ruling party, please don't replace them like-for-like even though you hate us even more now we've bombed you to shit" is your preferred strategy?

if you do nothing, nothing changes.

killing the ruling party ensures the ruling party changes.

and the international community plus israel can see to it that a non-terrorist regime steps into the void. but doing nothing changes nothing, which means hamas.....

 

[Deleted member 585708]

if you do nothing, nothing changes.

killing the ruling party ensures the ruling party changes.

and the international community plus israel can see to it that a non-terrorist regime steps into the void. but doing nothing changes nothing, which means hamas.....

Again: slaughter is not the way to a democratic outcome.

You can wish it was, but it isn't.

By all means, the IDF can continue to target the remaining Hamas terrorists, but by now no more citizens should be killed.

The problem you are going to have with your current argument is, you're entirely relying on the IDF's totally arbitrary commentary on timelines and progress, and they're coming from a position of 'slaughter as many as it takes'.

 

[kflo]

Again: slaughter is not the way to a democratic outcome.

You can wish it was, but it isn't.

By all means, the IDF can continue to target the remaining Hamas terrorists, but by now no more citizens should be killed.

The problem you are going to have with your current argument is, you're entirely relying on the IDF's totally arbitrary commentary on timelines and progress, and they're coming from a position of 'slaughter as many as it takes'.

again, i'm not sure why you keep dismissing the fact that hamas is the governing body of gaza unless they are replaced.

ceasefire means hamas is still in power.

at least acknowledge this.

i don't know what "democratic outcome" you're looking for with hamas in gaza. do you think hamas will hold elections?

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

if you do nothing, nothing changes.

killing the ruling party ensures the ruling party changes.

and the international community plus israel can see to it that a non-terrorist regime steps into the void. but doing nothing changes nothing, which means hamas.....

After Hamas is gone, do you believe something should be done with Likud for their decades of colonization and terror on the Palestinians?