Fights where we call cope and act like the fighter we are rooting for has a real chance to win.

[AndrewGolota48]

Like Jones vs Shogun for example, where deep down we all knew Jones was going to dismantle him, but we wanted Shogun to win so bad that we started dreaming up delusional scenarios like Shogun chopping him down with leg kicks.

Or Silva vs Weidman. We knew Silva struggled with elite wrestlers but unlike Sonnen this was a guy with an amazing ground game that was impossible to sub. And Silva was already old and anyone with a discerning eye could see that he was slowing down in prior fights.

Ank vs Poatan - the idea that an aging one dimensional striker was going to beat a well rounded MMA fighter in his prime.

Islam vs Oliveira. We all knew this was a complete mismatch, but we loved Charles, so many of us tried to cope by talking about how good Charles is on the ground, as if BJJ still works against monster grapplers like Islam and Khabib, or Jones, or Prime Weidman, or GSP. There is a certain level of top game where BJJ is simply not going to work unless you're Gordon Ryan level and you somehow had all the other MMA skills to go with it.

Khamzat vs DDP: we're all coping with the DDP is durable and will turn the fight around after Khamzat gasses hope. Truth is, DDP has terrible TDD, so even when Khamzat slows down he'll still be able to take him down at will. DDP isn't Usman, so that path to victory is unlikely. And that's if DDP even manages to survive the first round.

Jones vs Aspinall. Jones is pushing 40, and up a weight class. He's the greatest fighter of all time but he's still human, and Tom is in his prime and a good bit larger. I would be rooting for Jones because he's from the old guard and at a certain point you just have to respect watching greatness. It's like how I used to always hate Kobe but eventually when you're seeing this guy be such a beast on the court and hit clutch game winning shots etc you can't help but respect and appreciate it.

 

[HHJ]

There wasnt any reason to not expect a competitive fight between Islam and Oliveria.

I dont think its a mismatch on paper at all. I dont think anyone was really saying that beforehand.

Im a huge Bathtub Bridgade fan but I was actually surprised how easy that fight was for Islam.

 

[HHJ]

Also I know how dangerous Poatan is. Its a dangerous fight for anyone.

I just thought the general sentiment that Big Ank has NO CHANCE, that he's not good enough to win, was fuckin crazy!

I dont get mad at no one picking Poatan, but the shit some people were saying, completley overlookin the guy for his lack of flashy moves and pro wrestling promos.... I had to sound the horn for the Owl legions to rise!

 

[RemyR]

A lot of people (myself included) were picking Shogun over Jones back in the day. Jones wasn't the destroyer of worlds back then, just a young up and coming wrestler with some flashy moves. Many of us thought shogun would leg kick him into oblivion. Boy were we wrong.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

There wasnt any reason to not expect a competitive fight between Islam and Oliveria.

I dont think its a mismatch on paper at all. I dont think anyone was really saying that beforehand.

Im a huge Bathtub Bridgade fan but I was actually surprised how easy that fight was for Islam.

Islam was a pretty big Vegas favorite, and it's because there there wasn't much Charles could do from the bottom or to stop the takedown. I was hoping that Charles could do something major with striking in his short window of opportunity before getting mauled on the ground, but I did not expect Islam to be the one to do that standing. So yes, the sheer domination in all aspects was surprising.

 

[tritestill]

Like Jones vs Shogun for example, where deep down we all knew Jones was going to dismantle him, but we wanted Shogun to win so bad that we started dreaming up delusional scenarios like Shogun chopping him down with leg kicks.

Or Silva vs Weidman. We knew Silva struggled with elite wrestlers but unlike Sonnen this was a guy with an amazing ground game that was impossible to sub. And Silva was already old and anyone with a discerning eye could see that he was slowing down in prior fights.

Ank vs Poatan - the idea that an aging one dimensional striker was going to beat a well rounded MMA fighter in his prime.

Islam vs Oliveira. We all knew this was a complete mismatch, but we loved Charles, so many of us tried to cope by talking about how good Charles is on the ground, as if BJJ still works against monster grapplers like Islam and Khabib, or Jones, or Prime Weidman, or GSP. There is a certain level of top game where BJJ is simply not going to work unless you're Gordon Ryan level and you somehow had all the other MMA skills to go with it.

Khamzat vs DDP: we're all coping with the DDP is durable and will turn the fight around after Khamzat gasses hope. Truth is, DDP has terrible TDD, so even when Khamzat slows down he'll still be able to take him down at will. DDP isn't Usman, so that path to victory is unlikely. And that's if DDP even manages to survive the first round.

Jones vs Aspinall. Jones is pushing 40, and up a weight class. He's the greatest fighter of all time but he's still human, and Tom is in his prime and a good bit larger. I would be rooting for Jones because he's from the old guard and at a certain point you just have to respect watching greatness. It's like how I used to always hate Kobe but eventually when you're seeing this guy be such a beast on the court and hit clutch game winning shots etc you can't help but respect and appreciate it.

I loved Kobe, fuck you. This is good thread, but we all can fall for our heart at times.

 

[Egészségére!]

Tyson vs Paul

 

[VinceArch]

Tony vs Oliveira/Dariush/Chandler/Diaz/Green/Paddy/Chiesa

 

[Arm Barbarian]

Agree with some of that, but not sure about DDP / Khamzat or Jones vs Aspinal.

Khamzat has looked human against durable guys. He had all he could handle from two weeks notice Marty, and was fading in a three rounder. Dricus is strong AF and durable.

On Jones, he for sure is getting up there in age, but he still has one of the best overall skillsets, especially for the bigger guys. Tom has the better hands and power, but outside of that I'm not entirely convinced Jon is outmatched. He has a wide variety of weapons and excellent fight IQ and game planning.

 

[Kung Fu Kowboy]

Kit Cope did ok... but I'm not going to call him.

 

[fortheo]

There's not much reason to favor khamzat over a big workhorse like DDP.

I'll add to that list with umar nurmagomedov vs. Merab: people tried to cope saying umar was better everywhere despite facing mostly shit competition, oh and despite us all knowing he was untested against wrestlers, we just assumed his grappling was unquestionable because his last name is nurmagomedov. people coped by repeatedly spreading the narrative that merab was ducking his nightmare match up. They coped after the fact saying umar broke his hand etc etc

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

Also I know how dangerous Poatan is. Its a dangerous fight for anyone.

I just thought the general sentiment that Big Ank has NO CHANCE, that he's not good enough to win, was fuckin crazy!

I dont get mad at no one picking Poatan, but the shit some people were saying, completley overlookin the guy for his lack of flashy moves and pro wrestling promos.... I had to sound the horn for the Owl legions to rise!

[HOOT HOOT]

I've literally just assumed that Ank would win his last 10 or so fights. I didn't always root for him, but just assumed he would win. I'm not surprised, at all, that he beat Poatan, and yes, the absurd idol-worship level proclaiming that an in-his-prime-virtually-unbeaten machine like Ank had no chance against Poatan . . . smh.

 

[Sms_productions713]

nick diaz vs gsp

 

[DrRodentia]

There's not much reason to favor khamzat over a big workhorse like DDP.

I'll add to that list with umar nurmagomedov vs. Merab: people tried to cope saying umar was better everywhere despite facing mostly shit competition, oh and despite us all knowing he was untested against wrestlers, we just assumed his grappling was unquestionable because his last name is nurmagomedov. people coped by repeatedly spreading the narrative that merab was ducking his nightmare match up. They coped after the fact saying umar broke his hand etc etc

I don't think it's cope when I say that I still believe Umar is technically better than Merab in all areas except gas tank. Unfortunately for him, a great gas tank is probably the greatest attribute to have, especially at a high level.

 

[DrRodentia]

[HOOT HOOT]

I've literally just assumed that Ank would win his last 10 or so fights. I didn't always root for him, but just assumed he would win. I'm not surprised, at all, that he beat Poatan, and yes, the absurd idol-worship level proclaiming that an in-his-prime-virtually-unbeaten machine like Ank had no chance against Poatan . . . smh.

Anyone who said that Ank stood no chance is simply not a logical thinker.

Sports are like that. People often think with emotion instead of rationality.

 

[HavokHarmon]

A lot of people (myself included) were picking Shogun over Jones back in the day. Jones wasn't the destroyer of worlds back then, just a young up and coming wrestler with some flashy moves. Many of us thought shogun would let kick into oblivion. Boy were we wrong.

I also picked Shogun to win. At the time Jones had made a lot of mid-level guys look pretty bad but it’s never clear how much we can glean from that. We had also never seen him actually tested so there was a big question mark as to how he’d react when he took a step up in competition. Shogun on the other hand, while wildly inconsistent at points had been in there with the best in the division and, at his best, looked phenomenal.

I thought if Shogun came in healthy and on point that his skill would fluster Jones who was used to much lower level competition, and that he would get a taste of what the best in the world were really like. Obviously that didn’t happen but it wasn’t a take based on any wishful thinking or wanting Shogun to win, rather we just hadn’t seen Jones take that next step so it wasn’t as obvious how he would look at the time as it is in hindsight.

 

[Aurelian]

I don't think it's cope when I say that I still believe Umar is technically better than Merab in all areas except gas tank. Unfortunately for him, a great gas tank is probably the greatest attribute to have, especially at a high level.

In a way he's right. Umar was almost a 3 to 1 favorite over Merab at one point on the betting lines.

Nobody should be taking anyone over Merab at those odds in a 5 round fight. What a disrespectful ass line.

 

[DrRodentia]

In a way he's right. Umar was almost a 3 to 1 favorite over Merab at one point on the betting lines.

Nobody should be taking anyone over Merab at those odds in a 5 round fight. What a disrespectful ass line.

I don't disagree that the odds were fucked.

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

Anyone who said that Ank stood no chance is simply not a logical thinker.

Sports are like that. People often think with emotion instead of rationality.

Absolutely this. Sports, religion, and politics. All very tribal.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

I changed my mind after this thread because I saw Aspinall vs Stuart Austin and then realized that Tom has no idea how to use his size advantage in grappling so it's not nearly the obstacle I thought it was. Austin is much smaller than Jones, with a 30 lb deficit to Aspinall, but still ragdolled him.

And grappling was Tom's base and first martial art that he trained for many many years prior to that fight so the excuse that he was "only" the same age as Jones when Jones won the UFC belt, doesn't seem like a valid excuse.