Would Aspinall have been ranked in the heyday of the UFC HW division?

[Bowel-forged Stool]

 

[markg171]

Convenient that you leave out Gane being outgrappled by two strikers in Ngannou and Volkov while Tom subbed Volkov inside a round.

Why are you comparing Gane's defensive grappling to Tom's offensive grappling? You do realize those two things are the complete opposite of one another right? It's nice to know in a hypothetical matchup against one another, but the actual comparison is using defence vs defence or offence vs offence.

We have no idea if Tom's defensive grappling has remotely improved since he got subbed by a regional can as he hasn't been put on his back. Gane meanwhile just didn't get submitted by the "striker" who's also a BJJ BB.

Weird that you left that part out!

 

[Superzorro]

Of course you "don't see that at all". Because you don't want to. And because you (maybe--or you have and are being disingenuous) haven't seen his bazillion other posts on the topic of Aspinall where he either implies or says it. Mark's entire purpose on this site is to shit talk Aspinall/glaze Jones. That's it.

It's not because I "don't want to." It's because I can comprehend English and it isn't there. It doesn't matter what he has said in the past. That's what's called an ad hominem. What we're responding to is the statement he made here alone. You can't bring your interpretation of the past into an entirely different debate. And based on what he's said since then, I was right. I predict that your next act will be trying to tell HIM what HE meant, and make his own argument for him.

I've never in my life seen someone prostitute their name and reputation this hard for a guy that just showed up on the scene. You're basically whoring yourself out and making a fool out of yourself for a guy that might not even turn out to be what you're saying he is.

 

[mkess101]

Why are you comparing Gane's defensive grappling to Tom's offensive grappling? You do realize those two things are the complete opposite of one another right? It's nice to know in a hypothetical matchup against one another, but the actual comparison is using defence vs defence or offence vs offence.

We have no idea if Tom's defensive grappling has remotely improved since he got subbed by a regional can as he hasn't been put on his back. Gane meanwhile just didn't get submitted by the "striker" who's also a BJJ BB.

Weird that you left that part out!

We are talking about grappling AS A WHOLE. FFS dude you just have to find a silly way to twist and spin to try to make some moronic point that only brain dead people would acknowledge. It's comical.

 

[mkess101]

It's not because I "don't want to." It's because I can comprehend English and it isn't there. It doesn't matter what he has said in the past. That's what's called an ad hominem. What we're responding to is the statement he made here alone. You can't bring your interpretation of the past into an entirely different debate. And based on what he's said since then, I was right. I predict that your next act will be trying to tell HIM what HE meant, and make his own argument for him.

I've never in my life seen someone prostitute their name and reputation this hard for a guy that just showed up on the scene. You're basically whoring yourself out and making a fool out of yourself for a guy that might not even turn out to be what you're saying he is.

"The past". It's an ONGOING thing with him. Every day.

And quite frankly you're showing yourself to be not much better than he is. And holy fuck what a drama queen you're also now turning out to be. "ZOMG you're whoring yourself out and ruining your reputation over a guy who's not that proven!!"

Hey drama queen, why don't YOU tell me what I think Aspinall "is".


Newsflash: I've already told you your opinion is dogshit. You thinking I'm making a fool of myself means nothing to me other than giving me a bit of amusement.

You couldn't even define who you consider a "great" HW. You tucked tail and ran when presented that question after I gave you an example and you nitpicked to "No no no, plural!" "Okay, who do you consider the great HW's then? Overeem? Would he be one?" ...crickets.

 

[Clark Rogers]

The fact that Gane is still being called "second best in the division" shows just how fuckin sad the division has become.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

The fact that Gane is still being called "second best in the division" shows just how fuckin sad the division has become.

To be fair its not like hes actually proven it to be the case. He lost badly to phony "no1" Jon, hasnt fought 2,5,6,7 or 9 and in most peoples eyes just got a gift against no4.

Hes been kept in the top 3 for God knows how many years when his legitimate wins over the last 3 years are literally Tai Tuivasa and Sergei Spivac.

 

[mkess101]

To be fair its not like hes actually proven it to be the case. He lost badly to phony "no1" Jon, hasnt fought 2,5,6,7 or 9 and in most peoples eyes just got a gift against no4.

Hes been kept in the top 3 for God knows how many years when his legitimate wins over the last 3 years are literally Tai Tuivasa and Sergei Spivac.

Truth. And honestly, I think Gane actually has the ABILITY to be really, really good. HW's just don't generally move like he can (outside a select few).

He's obviously a top end talent but his resume' is pretty underwhelming when looked at.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Truth. And honestly, I think Gane actually has the ABILITY to be really, really good. HW's just don't generally move like he can (outside a select few).

He's obviously a top end talent but his resume' is pretty underwhelming when looked at.

Hes a great athlete and his striking is very dynamic and skilled for a HW, but he has two major downfalls. One being that he came to fighting so late, the other being that in spite of his striking skill, size and athleticism he has underwhelming power.

I'm pretty sure the lack of power played a big part in Jon feeling confident in taking the fight too. It meant he knew that even if Gane proved harder to take/keep down than he expected he would likely still get time to regroup and reevaluate standing without being in the same immediate danger that Ngannou or now Tom would present.

 

[wolffanghameha]

Interesting read. But you talk like Tom isn't always improving. It's much more likely he's improved his grappling since the Stuart Austin fight (and partly because of it) than not.

 

[mkess101]

Hes a great athlete and his striking is very dynamic and skilled for a HW, but he has two major downfalls. One being that he came to fighting so late, the other being that in spite of his striking skill, size and athleticism he has underwhelming power.

I'm pretty sure the lack of power played a big part in Jon feeling confident in taking the fight too. It meant he knew that even if Gane proved harder to take/keep down than he expected he would likely still get time to regroup and reevaluate standing without being in the same immediate danger that Ngannou or now Tom would present.

Absolutely. There's no question. Gane is good and his skills and athleticism will have him beating **most** HW's. But there are for sure holes like a lack of power and very mediocre overall grappling.

 

[r-harper-1]

this answer litterally depends on how Willing Tom would be to gas

 

[r-harper-1]

Yeah I guess we can easily conclude that off his biggest wins being over fighters Derrick Lewis put into a coma (Volkov, Blaydes).

Didn’t Pavlovich starch Blaydes ? Ohhhh that didn’t allow you to use your clever line ….i get it now ….no response necessary

 

[spinup]

We can't speculate about his defensive grappling because they haven't been tested since the last time they were when he got submitted?

That seems convenient.

He tapped to a heel hook 10 years ago, when he was 22. Feel free to think this is still relevant today...

 

[markg171]

He tapped to a heel hook 10 years ago, when he was 22. Feel free to think this is still relevant today...

You guys keep mentioning he was 22 but never that he's been grappling since he was 7 and already had 15 years experience.

Weirdly convenient that 15 years of grappling is irrelevant him getting subbed but 10 years since suddenly is.

 

[SuperAlly]

Yep. Hes a perfect example of how impressionable people can be sometimes just because someone was around in a hotter era. His record was 12-2, eight of his wins were pre-UFC in regional level MMA, nine of the guys he beat dont have a wiki page. His UFC record was 4-2 and his two big wins were Mir and Gonzaga, granted the Brock fight is contentious but at the end of the day he gassed out hard in the second round and got stopped as a result. Meanwhile "unproven" Tom is 15-3, 8-1 in the UFC with the one loss being from a self inflicted freak injury. Are Pav, Blaydes and Volkov actually worse fighters than Mir and Gonzaga? i'd say no.

Don't you going bringing common sense to a monkey's tea party where simpletons are just trying to justify the "champ" ducking

 

[SuperAlly]

I’m not sure about anything in MMA

FTFY

 

[SuperAlly]

And yet another potted plant level IQ thread by Golota. This guy can't help himself.

Before reading any golota post, you know with absolute certainty the complete 180° opposite view to whatever he has sharted out onto teh interwebz will be the correct view.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

It's not because I "don't want to." It's because I can comprehend English and it isn't there. It doesn't matter what he has said in the past. That's what's called an ad hominem.

So you don't know Mark? It's how he operates. It's a lead. He doesn't argue anything in good faith. And that  does matter. It's not a fallacy to point out someone else's faliciousness. The point of identifying "logical fallacies" is so we can operate in purely evidential arguments, but you're not required to engage everyone evenly on any and every new subject they present when they continously fail to keep to that in past arguments.

 

[Ginja_Ninja]

He would have been ranked right where he is #1 (maybe #2)

There were lots of legends but the division was in the same position.

8-1 with 8 quick finishes and a blown knee loss, there hasn't been a time in the HW division when that wouldn't get you #1 and a title shot.