Would Aspinall have been ranked in the heyday of the UFC HW division?

[Chagaev]

He has fast hand and is a big dude, so he's obviously good at beeing the hammer. Similar to Alexander E. I guess.

But we need to see him in a dog fight.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

where talking about his best win
obviously his best win was the fighter who had the most accomplishment
and also gave him more problems

and it is andrei arlovski

So you're saying you think the AA of 2021 would have beaten Pav, Blaydes and Volkov?

 

[Ares Black]

where talking about his best win
obviously his best win was the fighter who had the most accomplishment
and also gave him more problems

and it is andrei arlovski

Arlovski gave him no problems at all

 

[mkess101]

Does he move better than JDS? JDS finished Mark Hunt with a spinning axe kick. Not sure Aspinall has the agility to pull something like that off.

I don't think there's enough tape of Aspinall to really tell TBH.

Yeah he does. Not a knock on JDS. He'd be next in terms of ability to move a big body. And Aspinall is like 20 lbs bigger too which makes his ability to move like he does even more impressive. It's also subjective when we talk about "agility" and stuff like that. Could Tom throw that kick? Maybe? But maybe not. But his footwork and speed getting in and out of the pocket is faster and better imo.

Little tape on Tom to be sure. One thing we do know is that he hits like a truck and generates plenty of power. Because we can say current HW are less skilled than the bygone era, but there's zero reason to believe the chins are all just worse. And everyone Tom hits, he's crumbling. Call it what you want. Power combined with accuracy combined with timing and speed...but he's not landing these fast punches on guys and needing to pile them up. He's landing and they're falling.

 

[mkess101]

Arlovski gave him no problems at all

Now now. Aspinall only outlanded him about 2-1, had AA backing against the cage covering up in rd 2 before getting taken down and easily tapped. So yeah obviously gave him big problems.

To Arlovski's credit, he's the only one who's made it out of rd 1 with Aspinall. So kudos to AA on that.

 

[Superzorro]

He absolutely countered Pavlovich. Pavlovich threw a punch, Tom slid back and a bit laterally to avoid it and immediately sent a quick 1-2 to the side of Pav's head.

Agree on Tybura and to a lesser extent Collier. It looks like Tom has zero respect for what can come back at him so he blitzes. That seems somewhat opponent dependent though.

I think he varies his tempo better than you give him credit for too. It's hard to get a great read with fights ending so quickly but there's times he looks to be getting in a flow state. His "rushes" are also so effective because of his speed that it's hard to fault him for leaping into an opening when it's there.

For the Pavlovich part, all I can say is watch the fight again before you reply. Pavlovich wasn’t in the process of throwing any kind of punch when Aspinall caught him.

Ok, let’s hear some examples.

Right the speed. Whenever you hear talk about Aspinall, it’s always the physical attributes. Outside of his physical attributes, he looks like a very uncoordinated, clumsy fighter. Eventually, he’s going to get in there with someone where the speed or strength or size won’t be enough. A good fighter that actually believes they can win and isn’t just showing up for a check won’t be rattled by that. And he’s going to have to show he can actually fight like an elite fighter and out think someone for all five rounds instead of just one.

He couldn't challenge Cain or DC in wrestling...not sure who'd think that. At best he could possibly use his quickness and athleticism to keep distance as needed and maybe counter wrestle. Then land a fight altering shot.

Probably not much point in debating. People just make up their minds in these hypotheticals and act as though they know what would happen. Which I find amusing, but also ridiculous.

Just scroll up and take your pick.
Yeah my question for you sir is when has he done that to someone even remotely on the level of a Cain or DC for you to be able to say he would do it to them. Like when is just being quick and athletic enough to counter Olympic wrestlers… Once either of those guys get ahold of him— which they will, he’s done.

I'm a huge Tom fan and I'm grateful we have him during the dark age of the HW division. With that said I think prime Fedor and prime Cain could challenge him in areas where others couldn't. Specifically in the clinch and later in the fight where we haven't seen Tom yet. He moves great when he's fresh but how does he do 12-15 minutes into the fight when his opponent is still game and dangerous standing in front of him?

Based strictly on what we’ve seen from him (ie not giving him credit for things he hasn’t done yet), he gets dog walked by prime Fedor Emilianenko and prime Cain. I stand on that.

 

[mkess101]

For the Pavlovich part, all I can say is watch the fight again before you reply. Pavlovich wasn’t in the process of throwing any kind of punch when Aspinall caught him.

Ok, let’s hear some examples.

Right the speed. Whenever you hear talk about Aspinall, it’s always the physical attributes. Outside of his physical attributes, he looks like a very uncoordinated, clumsy fighter. Eventually, he’s going to get in there with someone where the speed or strength or size won’t be enough. A good fighter that actually believes they can win and isn’t just showing up for a check won’t be rattled by that. And he’s going to have to show he can actually fight like an elite fighter and out think someone for all five rounds instead of just one.


Just scroll up and take your pick.
Yeah my question for you sir is when has he done that to someone even remotely on the level of a Cain or DC for you to be able to say he would do it to them. Like when is just being quick and athletic enough to counter Olympic wrestlers… Once either of those guys get ahold of him— which they will, he’s done.


Based strictly on what we’ve seen from him (ie not giving him credit for things he hasn’t done yet), he gets dog walked by prime Fedor Emilianenko and prime Cain. I stand on that.

Pav is bringing his hands back AFTER having thrown a punch. But that's why that speed is such a game changer. Against other guys, Pav is safe there. He threw and it drew a reaction, Tom had to slide a little. That mini reset gives Pav enough time vs anyone else to get back to a sound defensive position. But Tom's return gets there faster, and instead of whiffing like other guys would in that spot, it lands on Pav's temple and the 2nd shot lands clean too.

Yes, someone may come along that can match what Tom brings. I'd argue you're underselling his skills and saying he's "clumsy" isn’t accurate. I can find examples where every HW ever (including all time greats) look less than coordinated. Tom isn't the MOST skilled HW, not claiming that. But his skill combined with his athletic ability is a nightmare.

And you gotta read what I actually type. I'm not saying he's proven he **would** do that to DC or Cain or JDS. I'm saying it's an unknown. I watched all the fights of all those guys. And I'm not gonna short sell them because they WERE truly elite. But Tom moves better, faster and has some attributes none of them did. Now THEY also had some that he doesn't have (or at least hasn't shown). So of course there's a very real chance in this hypothetical that they'd implement their gameplan and beat him. There's also a chance that he's every bit as good as he's shown by dispatching everyone so easily and he belongs right in that mix of the guys we're talking about. That's the beauty of these conversations. We will never know what Aspinall vs prime Cain looks like. We just have conjecture.

 

[orca]

So you're saying you think the AA of 2021 would have beaten Pav, Blaydes and Volkov?

so your saying these guys are more accomplished than arlovski?
tell me wich round did these guys survived against tom?

 

[Ares Black]

Now now. Aspinall only outlanded him about 2-1, had AA backing against the cage covering up in rd 2 before getting taken down and easily tapped. So yeah obviously gave him big problems.

To Arlovski's credit, he's the only one who's made it out of rd 1 with Aspinall. So kudos to AA on that.

Arlovski is very good at surviving, I'll give him that. And I really think Aspinall kinda took it easy on him out of respect.

 

[orca]

Arlovski gave him no problems at all

still a fact that he did way more than the others you mentioned
and has a better career

imagine if tom decided to retire
and youl say his best win is volkov whos a long time gatekeeper

 

[Ares Black]

still a fact that he did way more than the others you mentioned

In the fight against Aspinall? No

and has a better career

Irrelevant to the discussion. Context matters.

imagine if tom decided to retire
and youl say his best win is volkov whos a long time gatekeeper

I don't think you understand what a gatekeeper is. And it's still a better win than a win over the ghost of Andrei Arlovski.

 

[orca]

In the fight against Aspinall? No

Irrelevant to the discussion. Context matters.

I don't think you understand what a gatekeeper is. And it's still a better win than a win over the ghost of Andrei Arlovski.

ok so toms best win are guys like volkov from stipes era with 0 championship wins

 

[Ares Black]

ok so toms best win are guys like volkov from stipes era with 0 championship wins

Alexander Volkov is currently ranked #3 in the division. He is not from Stipe's era. His is from this era.

It's definitely not Arlovski.

Arlovski is the most recognizable name on his resume. It's not his best win.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

so your saying these guys are more accomplished than arlovski?

What relevance is that to how dangerous they are to fight in the 2020s?

tell me wich round did these guys survived against tom?

So he got stopped in the second round instead of the first...and?

The variables and margins that dictate something like that are so miniscule that its stupid to read anything into it.

 

[Gamer2k4]

Lmao all Carwin had was power and 1 round gas tank, fun fighter but by far and away one of the most limited contenders the division ever had. He should not be held as an all time great at all.

Carwin has more submissions than Aspinall, in fewer fights. Plus, Aspinall hasn't won a fight longer than 6:09, so let's not talk about "round 1 gas tanks."

Right now, all things considered, Carwin is more deserving of being put on an all-time great list than Aspinall.

 

[empsim]

That sounds like an overdose of nostalgia tbh.

Cain could be a problem since we don't know how Aspinall would respond to the pressure and getting dragged into the later rounds.

Apart from that? I think he'd beat all of them including Ngannou who was getting outstruck pretty comfortably by Gane.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Right now, all things considered, Carwin is more deserving of being put on an all-time great list than Aspinall.

I'm not seeing it.

12-2 vs 15-3 (one DQ loss and one from an injury)
4-2 in the UFC vs 8-1 in the UFC (again, the one loss from an injury)

Shane beat a grand total of 3 people who have a Wiki Page.

 

[Alpha_T83]

ok so toms best win are guys like volkov from stipes era with 0 championship wins

Hard to get a title shot when Jon Jones & Francis Ngannou have been holding up the division for years.

The UFC heavyweight title has been fought for a whopping 4 times in the last 5 years. We should have seen 10 UFC HW title fights in that time period.

 

[mkess101]

Carwin has more submissions than Aspinall, in fewer fights. Plus, Aspinall hasn't won a fight longer than 6:09, so let's not talk about "round 1 gas tanks."

Right now, all things considered, Carwin is more deserving of being put on an all-time great list than Aspinall.

Wow. I've seen some wacky takes but...wow.

Carwin was a total of 4-2 in the UFC. Aspinall is already 8-1. And "has more subs"? Why would that matter LMAO? Aspinall knocks guys out, who cares if he has less subs?

Like...what an absurd and weird take. Carwin LOL. Did not expect that one.

 

[Gamer2k4]

Wow. I've seen some wacky takes but...wow.

Carwin was a total of 4-2 in the UFC. Aspinall is already 8-1. And "has more subs"? Why would that matter LMAO? Aspinall knocks guys out, who cares if he has less subs?

Like...what an absurd and weird take. Carwin LOL. Did not expect that one.

It matters because the person I was responding to said "all Carwin had was power and 1 round gas tank." I was pointing out that if that's the complaint against Carwin, Aspinall is the same or worse in both regards.