Why are ufc athletes so poorly treated compared to all other professional athletes??? Fighter pay aw

[kflo]

So a guy implied the UFC would be in the red if they increased fighter pay, and I told him there is plenty of room to increase fighter pay. Not sure why you feel the urge to weigh in here. I didn't imply the UFC had any goal.

No, he didn’t imply they would be in the red. You read that into it. He implied it would be better financially for them to cut the roster. You felt the need to point out they would still be profitable…..again, it makes no sense to say that.

Cool. Again, not sure why you want to weigh in on this when I stated the fact that large amounts of UFC revenue, by their own admission, is guaranteed. Congrats on restating what I said. Every sport needs to deliver on their deals to one extent or another.

Every sport has a track record of delivering on their network deal. This is the biggest tv deal in ufc history by a lot and delivered through a new media and it’s very important that they deliver on this deal. That expires in a few years.

You realize boxers and mma fighters largely make equivalent money, right? You grossly misunderstand how boxing works if you think boxing prelims are similarly ranked fighters to UFC prelims.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. You think there are boxing equivalents to ufc prelim fighters who make anywhere near what they make?

On the last ufc card, just looking at the first fight, Matt Sayles fought. He was 8-3 as a pro, with 3 ammy fights before turning pro. He had no regional titles. He fights at fw / lw. You think there are many pro boxers with those credentials making $12k/12k (other than those associated with Jake paul)?

 

[markg171]

None of this is relevant to the actual point. More people watching = more revenue. OK. More events = more revenue. OK. But NBA players make > 50% of total revenue while UFC players are making 15%. I think the reason is that stardom in this sport is fragile. Career altering injuries are a kick away. One loss can derail a career.

NBA players, and other major league sports, have athletes who play at near 100% of the games in any given season. Or at least dress to do so as whether their coach puts them in or not is a different issue.

Please point to a single fighter who fought at all 43 of the UFC's events in 2021.

That's why there's different revenue splits. Players contribute to 100% of their games, meanwhile a fighter who fought 3x a year, which is "high" despite that being the minimum the UFC has to offer them in their contracts, only contributed to 6.98% of the UFC's events that year.

Furthermore, but please explain to me why some nobody TUF Fight Night prelim card fighter deserves any share of the revenue that Conor McGregor PPV generates? Did they fight on that card? No? So why should what that card generated have anything to do with their pay? At least a team mate of Lebron plays the same games as him.

 

[avenue94]

You have no idea what you’re talking about. You think there are boxing equivalents to ufc prelim fighters who make anywhere near what they make?

Given that boxers fight much more often (a 10-0 record in mma is not equivalent to a 10-0 boxing record), yeah. If we compare purses from years past we know this. I've said that boxing and mma purse are comparable across the spectrum, with 2 exceptions. That's a factual statement that plenty of data exists for.

What rank would you have Sayles at roughly worldwide? Top 50? 30?

Every sport has a track record of delivering on their network deal. This is the biggest tv deal in ufc history by a lot and delivered through a new media and it’s very important that they deliver on this deal. That expires in a few years.

And yet the UFC refers to that revenue as guaranteed, so again, take it up with WME, not me. I'm literally using their language.

 

[avenue94]

That's why there's different revenue splits. Players contribute to 100% of their games, meanwhile a fighter who fought 3x a year, which is "high" despite that being the minimum the UFC has to offer them in their contracts, only contributed to 6.98% of the UFC's events that year.

I thought we're paying athletes on the revenue they generate, not how long/hard they work? Not to mention it's incredibly dishonest to say fighters are paid just for that night, as if they don't have to use that money to train.

Furthermore, but please explain to me why some nobody TUF Fight Night prelim card fighter deserves any share of the revenue that Conor McGregor PPV generates? Did they fight on that card? No? So why should what that card generated have anything to do with their pay? At least a team mate of Lebron plays the same games as him.

Because the UFC promised ESPN X amount of hours of content, so they need to provide fights. Each of those slots are worth in the 6 figures on a fight night, depending on how you split it.

 

[Post 2 Decision]

NBA players, and other major league sports, have athletes who play at near 100% of the games in any given season. Or at least dress to do so as whether their coach puts them in or not is a different issue.

Please point to a single fighter who fought at all 43 of the UFC's events in 2021.

That's why there's different revenue splits. Players contribute to 100% of their games, meanwhile a fighter who fought 3x a year, which is "high" despite that being the minimum the UFC has to offer them in their contracts, only contributed to 6.98% of the UFC's events that year.

Furthermore, but please explain to me why some nobody TUF Fight Night prelim card fighter deserves any share of the revenue that Conor McGregor PPV generates? Did they fight on that card? No? So why should what that card generated have anything to do with their pay? At least a team mate of Lebron plays the same games as him.

Great way of looking at it

How kuch revenue does the UFC pull in a Fight Night, or in a PPV?

Maybe we can figure out the revenue split for fighters per event

 

[kflo]

Given that boxers fight much more often (a 10-0 record in mma is not equivalent to a 10-0 boxing record), yeah. If we compare purses from years past we know this. I've said that boxing and mma purse are comparable across the spectrum, with 2 exceptions. That's a factual statement that plenty of data exists for.

What rank would you have Sayles at roughly worldwide? Top 50? 30?

Why do boxers fight so much more than mma fighters? Are they different sports?

And I have no idea where sayles would rank. He’s 8-4. He hasn’t beaten anyone I would say is top 50.

[quote[
And yet the UFC refers to that revenue as guaranteed, so again, take it up with WME, not me. I'm literally using their language.[/QUOTE]
Again, no shit that they have some of their revenue that is guaranteed.

 

[avenue94]

Great way of looking at it

How kuch revenue does the UFC pull in a Fight Night, or in a PPV?

Maybe we can figure out the revenue split for fighters per event

These are the 5 events we have complete breakdowns for. There are also averages by year and event. These days the UFC is pulling in a lot more in TV revenue per fight night. Ditto with sponsor revenue but that's a little trickier since sponsors don't sign for individual events.

Event Date Event Costs (Excluding Compensation) Event Revenue Fighter Expenses
UFC Live: Vera vs. Jones Mar 21, 2010 $1,191,054 $2,992,794 $983,500
UFC 111 Mar 27, 2009 $6,000,085 $28,097,645 $3,760,751
UFN: Florian vs. Gomi Mar 31, 2010 $1,210,933 $3,080,893 $722,500
UFN: dos Anjos vs Alvarez July 7, 2016 $1,595,901 $3,048,611 $1,912,750
UFC 200 Jul 9, 2016 $12,848,217 $55,279,396 $19,905,008

 

[avenue94]

Why do boxers fight so much more than mma fighters? Are they different sports?

Various reasons, less injury prone I suspect, demands of the fans and what they like in records, shorter fights starting out, fetishization of record padding, etc. Yes, last I checked UFC and boxing have different rules, so they are different forms of combat sports indeed.

And I have no idea where sayles would rank. He’s 8-4. He hasn’t beaten anyone I would say is top 50.

Asking so we could see if he falls in the exception of boxing vs mma pay that favors fighters in the UFC.

 

[FKAri]

Fighters have no unity. That's the issue. All that other shit you said is just conjecture. Considering the fact people are literally die hard fans of "Teams" not players. Dana is getting random fucks to fight for very little, and convinces the fan base that these guys are the best out there because he singed them. That in turn lowers the value of the actual best in the world, because Dana can sell MMA fans on BS. These watered down shit ESPN cards are evidence of that. Unionizing is the only way this is fixed. No other way to leverage Dana. Look up how he shitted all over Cerrone for even considering joining a union. That's all you need to see.

With the NFL people are die hard team fans. It's the nature of the sport. It's a team game and less star driven. But with the NBA, it's star driven and CBA negotiations seem to indicate that both parties know that if push came to shove fans would rather watch the top players play in another league as opposed to nobodies putting on familiar team jerseys.

NBA players, and other major league sports, have athletes who play at near 100% of the games in any given season. Or at least dress to do so as whether their coach puts them in or not is a different issue.

Please point to a single fighter who fought at all 43 of the UFC's events in 2021.

That's why there's different revenue splits. Players contribute to 100% of their games, meanwhile a fighter who fought 3x a year, which is "high" despite that being the minimum the UFC has to offer them in their contracts, only contributed to 6.98% of the UFC's events that year.

Furthermore, but please explain to me why some nobody TUF Fight Night prelim card fighter deserves any share of the revenue that Conor McGregor PPV generates? Did they fight on that card? No? So why should what that card generated have anything to do with their pay? At least a team mate of Lebron plays the same games as him.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the percentages represent(and since OP didn't post a source I'm taking it as a given). But from the total revenue of an event, less of it is going to the athletes as compared to other sports. I don't understand how fighting more or less has any effect on that.

 

[kflo]

Various reasons, less injury prone I suspect, demands of the fans and what they like in records, shorter fights starting out, fetishization of record padding, etc. Yes, last I checked UFC and boxing have different rules, so they are different forms of combat sports indeed.

And maybe because boxers build up their personal brand and don’t have a vehicle like the ufc……you literally CAN’T be 8-4 and make money in boxing like you can in mma. They don’t have the vehicles to get the interest in them that gets them paid.

If mma just had individual promoters like boxing you’d have mma fighters setting up their careers like boxers need to. And magically they’d be able to fight more frequently….

Asking so we could see if he falls in the exception of boxing vs mma pay that favors fighters in the UFC.

Again, you won’t find boxers with his credentials making 12/12.

 

[420sicness]

They're just that, fighters.

They're not professional athletes, just like how a golfer isnt an athlete.

They know what they signed up for.

And the 95th best golfer in the world makes over a million dollars a year

 

[DestinedAussie]

Yeah, it's not good for the UFC in the sense it's debt, but that money is used by WME, not the UFC. The more profitable the UFC becomes, the more debt WME saddles it with.

They're less private than mma agreements for several reasons, especially at the higher levels.

You understand that those are essentially regional level fights, hence they are less than UFC prelim fights, correct?

Yes on this, and no matter how much people don't like it, it would probably take either legislation or legal proceedings, if not both. Competition isn't going to spring up on its own at this point, the mma market is too distorted.

So a guy implied the UFC would be in the red if they increased fighter pay, and I told him there is plenty of room to increase fighter pay. Not sure why you feel the urge to weigh in here. I didn't imply the UFC had any goal.

Cool. Again, not sure why you want to weigh in on this when I stated the fact that large amounts of UFC revenue, by their own admission, is guaranteed. Congrats on restating what I said. Every sport needs to deliver on their deals to one extent or another.

You realize boxers and mma fighters largely make equivalent money, right? You grossly misunderstand how boxing works if you think boxing prelims are similarly ranked fighters to UFC prelims.

Any attempt to legislate pays for fighters would kill the regional scene as they would no longer be afford to anyone. I can't see anyone legislating how a business pays it's contractors or employees outside minimum conditions. I certainly don't pay my employees 50% of my revenue(or anything close to it) and I would go bankrupt superfast if I did. I see it unlikely to happen in terms of payment. I do think if challenged in court there might be terms of UFC contracts not deemed legal but from what I understand Bellator and PFL use similar contracts.

I disagree competition will never come. PFL certainly has potential and is clearly spending big to try and get marketshare. PFL made it to cable TV in Australia (like UFC) but Bellator doesn't. That said at the end of the day it isn't an easy business to get into, even Mark Cuban failed. I think as much as I like MMA it is has a more limited audience than traditional sports.

 

[markg171]

I thought we're paying athletes on the revenue they generate, not how long/hard they work? Not to mention it's incredibly dishonest to say fighters are paid just for that night, as if they don't have to use that money to train.

But how did a fighter who fought on Fight Night 47 generate any revenue from UFC 268? Why should fighters be entitled to the revenue that other events, featuring other fighters, are doing?

With other sports those athletes are in all of those games so it actually makes more sense to pay them a yearly/seasonal salary as they compete for all of it.

Because the UFC promised ESPN X amount of hours of content, so they need to provide fights. Each of those slots are worth in the 6 figures on a fight night, depending on how you split it.

Okay, well figure out what that event is worth and then pay them out from that. That's the one they contributed towards.

Doesn't mean they deserve a 50% split of all the UFC's revenue though if they didn't compete in anywhere near 50% of the UFC's content.

Great way of looking at it

How kuch revenue does the UFC pull in a Fight Night, or in a PPV?

Maybe we can figure out the revenue split for fighters per event

I mean, in a way, that's exactly what the PPV points do.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the percentages represent(and since OP didn't post a source I'm taking it as a given). But from the total revenue of an event, less of it is going to the athletes as compared to other sports. I don't understand how fighting more or less has any effect on that.

Fighting more would give you a claim to having generated more of the revenue. As things stand if you fight your 3 contractually obligated offered fights you only fought at 3/43 events. That's very low to try and claim you deserve 50% of the revenue or whatever. Other sports have players playing at 100% of their "events", hence why they deserve a higher claim as you can't say they didn't have anything to do with how well game X sold or whatever.

 

[The Half Blood Prince]

Typicall millenial assumption. Is social media your source of knowledge? That dirt (social idiot Media) did a lot of damage to humanity...

nope

 

[markg171]

And the 95th best golfer in the world makes over a million dollars a year

That's disingenuous.

Guido Migliozzi, the "95th best golfer in the world" came in 4th at the 2021 PGA US Open, which netted him 500K off that performance alone. He also made $133K for coming in 13th at another PGA Tour, while by contrast when he came in 57th at another PGA tour he only made $14k. He may only be ranked 95th, but clearly skillwise he actually could be way higher and seems to have a consistency issue, not skill issue.

Regardless, 500K for top 5, 133K for top 15, and 14K for top 60 is comparable, if not actually probably less, than what a lot of comparable UFC ranked fighters are making.

 

[Small Town Andrew]

I think guys who are making in the millions or 6 figures make plenty but I would like to see the undercard guys get paid more. At least $40,000 starting pay

 

[Merlotte's]

Fighters sign the contract. Don’t like it build your own Org and see how much money you’re willing to pay someone who is only good for the spectacle of violence.

 

[Toad Rogan]

what about bellator and boxing low fight pay for the low end people.

without the ufc connor would still be on welfare.

nfl and mlb players work more days in there sport that why they make millions to do it even if there lowest paid people on the scale. the nfl profits as a leage is 25 plus billions that how everyone is to rish in the nfl.

NFL and MLB players get paid ~50% of the revenue from their leagues and they get premium health care and pensions. Their pay has absolutely nothing to do with the number of days they work - it is based on the revenue of the league they're in with minimum pay that is negotiated by their union. UFC fighters share of revenue is something like 15-20% and they get virtually no benefits. It would easy for the UFC to set a guaranteed income for everyone on the roster to help the lower tier fighters or bump the minimum contract to something like 35k so all fighters would make 100k if they fight 3x a year. Although with management/trainer cut and taxes their actual pay would still be quite low. 12k contracts are gross for what these people do especially when Dana is bragging about 2021 being the most successful year in UFCs history.

 

[abject]

Group together and improve their barginning position, or is that the "wrong kind of capitalism"?

That would be communism and will get you shot.

 

[moreorless87]

That would be communism and will get you shot.

No it would be creating a union under capitalism but as I said "the wrong kind of capitalism" for you, the one were ultra wealthy interests reduce peoples earnings by monopoly is acceptable but any form of unionization is unacceptable.

Basically capitalism in which the system is rigged for the ultra wealthy.