What skillset is needed to beat the top-level Dagestanis in their prime?

[balkanbomber85]

12 years of Dagestani presence in the UFC with always around 10-15 fighters on the roster and so far 2 champs and 2 more who tried but failed and you ask what it needs to stop the “invasion”?

They are not even close to have the same kind od domination the Brazilians had during their prime!

 

[Tweak896]

Ultimate TDD, good offensive wrestling so you're not the only one backing up, great pressure striking, and superb cardio. You need to be a complete fighter. Going to be interesting to see anyone able to consistently beat dagestanis.

 

[chimpoehurricane]

Obviously I'm aware Islam has been KO'd and Khabib arguably lost to Tibau early on in his UFC career.

And I realize Khabib's team are exceptionally prepared, don't do short notice fights, etc.

But skill-wise, what will it take to beat them? Volk and Dustin both dropped or stunned Islam, Cory landed a really clean left yesterday that definitely hurt Umar. Yet this wasn't enough to win even with their exceptional grappling defense.

Arman has shown that offensive wrestling isn't enough to win (though, yes, he also fought short notice).

I'm thinking someone will need power in their hands and amazing offensive AND defensive grappling to stand a chance at winning more than just the rare lucky punch. But it just doesn't seem like this combo exists yet.

Lucky punch? Fighter's dont accidentally punch.

 

[Darkavius]

Honestly I think time and money is what will beat Dagestanis. Sounds odd but that team is fairly new. Khabib's father was the first big main guy to bring the team onto the UFC scene. Now we are onto the next generation. I tend to think that being in such a poor area helped them become the great team they are now, but as more money circulates in they will slowly get worse and worse.

This has been done before where we see a team come up and think this camp is producing killers and eventually it goes away or fighters slowly become worse coming out of that team and then a new team develops. Remember Chute Box, Kings MMA, Jackson/Wink and the Blackzilians? All were powerhouses at some time.

 

[Rapa]

I'm thinking someone will need power in their hands and amazing offensive AND defensive grappling to stand a chance at winning more than just the rare lucky punch. But it just doesn't seem like this combo exists yet

You mean ilia topuria?

 

[Bojka]

GSP said against Khabib you have to take the center of the octagon. Maybe Gaethje could've done it if he had better wrestling/grappling.

 

[BangBang]

Heihuquan, Touch of Death, Shaolin Kung Fu, Wudang chuan, Chin Na, Dragon Style Kung Fu

 

[Doughie99]

Obviously I'm aware Islam has been KO'd and Khabib arguably lost to Tibau early on in his UFC career.

And I realize Khabib's team are exceptionally prepared, don't do short notice fights, etc.

But skill-wise, what will it take to beat them? Volk and Dustin both dropped or stunned Islam, Cory landed a really clean left yesterday that definitely hurt Umar. Yet this wasn't enough to win even with their exceptional grappling defense.

Arman has shown that offensive wrestling isn't enough to win (though, yes, he also fought short notice).

I'm thinking someone will need power in their hands and amazing offensive AND defensive grappling to stand a chance at winning more than just the rare lucky punch. But it just doesn't seem like this combo exists yet.

A. Ability to acquire a small miniature RPG and smuggle it into the Octagon.

 

[Pingu]

Khabib needed 12 of his friends to confront artem. So I guess the same skillset that Artem has?

 

[jko1355]

The thing is.. we really have never seen them compete against actual wrestlers... only Strikers and BJJ guys... I have no idea how well they would do against an actual wrestler.... and don't say Justin Gaetchje dude hasn't wrestled in 10 years...

I think the reason they have been so successful, is because Dana White pretty much stopped signing wrestlers that wrestle due to the fights being boring, OTHER than the Dagestanis.. because khabib had a huge muslim following that stuck around for their muslim fighters.... We don't have anyone in these division like prime: Diego Sanchez, Sean Sherk, Fitch, Rick Story, Benson Henderson, Gray Maynard, Frankie Edgar, Clay Guida, Josh Koscheck, Chad Mendes, Michael Chandler, Eddie Alvarez, Urijah Faber, TJ Dillashaw, etc. we have like zero good wrestlers...

The only wrestlers at LW are Gamrot and Tsarukyan, and one is an okay polish wrestler (Gamrot) and one basically wrestled in highschool did some construction then started mma (Tsarukyan) neither are accomplished at all...

at 135 the best wrestlers were Aljo, Cejudo, and Merab... Aljo Left and Cejudo is 125 years old.. only Merab has a chance of competing with Umar in that division unless someone gets a lucky KO...

The Dagestanis get to basically be the Jon Fitches of the UFC without anyone who can wrestle to stop them and I truly believe that is intentional by the UFC, because I know D1 wrestlers are training mma...

At least Islam and Khabib would eventually get the finish more often than the old school grinders.

 

[fortheo]

A 5'9 LW version of prime volk.

Basically: lots of Cardio, good tdd and get ups, great striking, and to top it off, be able to mix some offensive wrestling in as well.

 

[chillyoo]

all about matchups, imo professional wrestling is the trick.

Stop that shot with a pedigree.

You’re on bottom? Indian surfboard.

Against the cage being walked and stalled? Belly to belly trip to suplex city.

They want to stand and bang, Ernest the cat miller.

 

[Left Hook Lacy]

all about matchups, imo professional wrestling is the trick.

Stop that shot with a pedigree.

You’re on bottom? Indian surfboard.

Against the cage being walked and stalled? Belly to belly trip to suplex city.

They want to stand and bang, Ernest the cat miller.

Miller was awesome. Nice to see someone remember that guy. I do think he might have been able to outstrike Glacier once.

 

[KO Shotz]

TDD & grappling.

 

[Hassan Mouzine]

The thing is.. we really have never seen them compete against actual wrestlers... only Strikers and BJJ guys... I have no idea how well they would do against an actual wrestler.... and don't say Justin Gaetchje dude hasn't wrestled in 10 years...

I think the reason they have been so successful, is because Dana White pretty much stopped signing wrestlers that wrestle due to the fights being boring, OTHER than the Dagestanis.. because khabib had a huge muslim following that stuck around for their muslim fighters.... We don't have anyone in these division like prime: Diego Sanchez, Sean Sherk, Fitch, Rick Story, Benson Henderson, Gray Maynard, Frankie Edgar, Clay Guida, Josh Koscheck, Chad Mendes, Michael Chandler, Eddie Alvarez, Urijah Faber, TJ Dillashaw, etc. we have like zero good wrestlers...

The only wrestlers at LW are Gamrot and Tsarukyan, and one is an okay polish wrestler (Gamrot) and one basically wrestled in highschool did some construction then started mma (Tsarukyan) neither are accomplished at all...

at 135 the best wrestlers were Aljo, Cejudo, and Merab... Aljo Left and Cejudo is 125 years old.. only Merab has a chance of competing with Umar in that division unless someone gets a lucky KO...

The Dagestanis get to basically be the Jon Fitches of the UFC without anyone who can wrestle to stop them and I truly believe that is intentional by the UFC, because I know D1 wrestlers are training mma...

At least Islam and Khabib would eventually get the finish more often than the old school grinders.

the wrestlers you just mentioned.....ALL OF THEM are way worse at wrestling and overall grappling than the likes of Islam and Khabib. the narrative that they never fight wrestlers is flawed. the names you mention dont stand a chance.

they are inferrior grapplers to some of these Dagestani's (not all of them of course)

 

[Luckyme]

Try offensively wrestling them for a change.

Seriously, everyone trains TDD but gets taken down anyway. Few try to beat them at their own game.

Arman, for example, had some success wrestling Islam. Tim Elliott wrestled Tagir and won, although he also cheated like crazy.

It's easier said than done though. Vanilla American wrestlers with single and double legs aren't going to have enough to beat them. You need wrestling on DC or Bo Nickal's level and a good submission game to go with it.

 

[mkt]

It's going to take a new camp that is as good as the Dagestanis at training and preparing their fighters.

There have been other good camps/teams but they all fall apart or deteriorate over time. The Dagestanis are fully dedicated to this

At WW, I can see prime GSP, a fully dedicated (including diet) Johnny Hendricks and maybe prime Usman as being fighters that could be big problems for top Dagestanis...but there weren't any for them to face at 170 in their primes. Basically, wrestle-boxers who had either very heavy hands (Hendricks) or a solid boxing/jab game (GSP) or a bit of both (Usman).

I can't think of any LWs. Most of the past wrestlers (Maynard, Sherk, Frankie, prime Chandler) were too small, as the Dagestani LWs have been huge. And even though prime BJ Penn had very good TDD, he'd have the same issue, as Islam/Khabib are pretty much GSP's size, and he couldn't beat GSP.

 

[mkt]

Try offensively wrestling them for a change.

Seriously, everyone trains TDD but gets taken down anyway. Few try to beat them at their own game.

Arman, for example, had some success wrestling Islam. Tim Elliott wrestled Tagir and won, although he also cheated like crazy.

It's easier said than done though. Vanilla American wrestlers with single and double legs aren't going to have enough to beat them. You need wrestling on DC or Bo Nickal's level and a good submission game to go with it.

If there were ever a LHW Dagestani, prime Jon Jones would've been hell for them, as would Cormier.

 

[Billthebutcher]

Soap, water & deodorant is half the battle.

 

[FreedomCricket]

I don't think any fighter's camp/team/coach pushes their pupils to the limit like Khabib does or Abdulmanap did.

Which means, not only are they exceptionally talented. They have incredible will and desire.

There's no skill set alone that competes with the way these guys live and train.

Spoiler: Except..

Any A-level athlete with 6 months of training could do it though.