Opinion Vote now! Your stance on guns!

[KeepItRealist]

 

[Phr3121]

Why do so many people want fully automatic weapons? It is a waste of ammo and after the 5th round you will be off target. That is why the U.S. Army did away with the fully automatic M-16 and adopted the 3 round burst on the M-16A2. You guys should maybe try a 12 gauge shotgun if you can't hit your target on the first round.

 

[BangersAndSmash]

Why do so many people want fully automatic weapons?

So they can be as cool as Arnie.

 

[RockstarChris]

if you need more than 1 bullet to kill someone you are holding it wrong

 

[irish_thug]

if you need more than 1 bullet to kill someone you are holding it wrong

If you're trying to kill someone by holding a bullet, you're doing a lot of things wrong.

 

[RockstarChris]

If you're trying to kill someone by holding a bullet, you're doing a lot of things wrong.

pencils work too

 

[Stoic1]

Why do so many people want fully automatic weapons? It is a waste of ammo and after the 5th round you will be off target. That is why the U.S. Army did away with the fully automatic M-16 and adopted the 3 round burst on the M-16A2. You guys should maybe try a 12 gauge shotgun if you can't hit your target on the first round.

Did away with? Hmmm. Are you sure about that?

 

[Phr3121]

Did away with? Hmmm. Are you sure about that?

Yes. I am. I served from 1988 to 2008. I fired the M-16A1 (automatic) and later the M-16A2 (3 round burst). Do you know something I don't? Has something different come out since 2008?

"The M16A2 fires the improved 5.56×45mm NATO cartridge and has a newer adjustable rear sight, case deflector, heavy barrel, improved handguard, pistol grip and buttstock, as well as a semi-auto and three-round burst fire selector."

Do you know why the U.S. Army did that? Because soldiers were wasting ammo and not hitting shit. They also had to carry a heavier load of ammo. Ammo that would eventually not find its way to the target and be wasted. A 3 round burst makes for more accurate firing and conserves ammunition.

* Edit: Ah, here it is: "The M4 is capable of firing in semi-automatic and three-round burst modes (like the M16A2 and M16A4), while the M4A1 is capable of firing in semi-automatic and fully automatic modes (like the M16A1 and M16A3)." Adopted is small numbers by Special Operations.

 

[floivanus]

Why do so many people want fully automatic weapons? It is a waste of ammo and after the 5th round you will be off target. That is why the U.S. Army did away with the fully automatic M-16 and adopted the 3 round burst on the M-16A2. You guys should maybe try a 12 gauge shotgun if you can't hit your target on the first round.

Maybe it harkens back to gun control and its classist (and yes, often racist) origins and application.

Fully automatic weaponry is NOT illegal for 99% of the citizens of the USA, what you have is a class based tiered systen going on with people who have the cash (even some who say “nobody needs a machinegun”) owning pre May of 1986 full autos.

There’s making something illegal (which machineguns aren’t) and there’s restricting ownership to a finite amount and making it out if reach of your average Joe.

 

[Phr3121]

Fully automatic weaponry is NOT illegal for 99% of the citizens of the USA, what you have is a class based tiered systen going on with people who have the cash (even some who say “nobody needs a machinegun”) owning pre May of 1986 full autos.

Yes. Good post. It is actually even simpler. Register yourself as a 'collector' and you can buy and own anything military and fully automatic. A 1945 M2 Browning Machine Gun - .50 Caliber heavy machine gun would be a typical example.



Personally I don't care much for handguns, automatic rifles, or semi-automatic rifles. My love has always been for bolt action rifles. Sniper shooting - 'One shot one kill'.

 

[floivanus]

Yes. Good post. It is actually even simpler. Register yourself as a 'collector' and you can buy and own anything military and fully automatic. A 1945 M2 Browning Machine Gun - .50 Caliber heavy machine gun would be a typical example.



Personally I don't care much for handguns, automatic rifles, or semi-automatic rifles. My love has always been for bolt action rifles. Sniper shooting - 'One shot one kill'.

Nope, doesn’t work that way, a “collector” FFL covers curio and relic firearns only (machineguns and other NFA regulated arms are excempted from being C&R eligible)

A SOT holder (say an 02/07 FFL who provides LEOs with machinegun samples can own any pre/post 86 machinegun) however they MUST be in the business of selling guns, period.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

Poll is useless as non-Americans post here and a lot of un-American cucks as well and none of them matter.

The government has no right to tell me what I can and cannot own.

 

[Stoic1]

Yes. I am. I served from 1988 to 2008. I fired the M-16A1 (automatic) and later the M-16A2 (3 round burst). Do you know something I don't? Has something different come out since 2008?

"The M16A2 fires the improved 5.56×45mm NATO cartridge and has a newer adjustable rear sight, case deflector, heavy barrel, improved handguard, pistol grip and buttstock, as well as a semi-auto and three-round burst fire selector."

Do you know why the U.S. Army did that? Because soldiers were wasting ammo and not hitting shit. They also had to carry a heavier load of ammo. Ammo that would eventually not find its way to the target and be wasted. A 3 round burst makes for more accurate firing and conserves ammunition.

* Edit: Ah, here it is: "The M4 is capable of firing in semi-automatic and three-round burst modes (like the M16A2 and M16A4), while the M4A1 is capable of firing in semi-automatic and fully automatic modes (like the M16A1 and M16A3)." Adopted is small numbers by Special Operations.

Yes,

We transitioned back to full auto.

2 of my arms rooms were switched back from the 3rd burst in around 2013ish. Hell, even TRADOC armsrooms are full auto as of 2018.

 

[Phr3121]

We transitioned back to full auto. 2 of my arms rooms were switched back from the 3rd burst in around 2013ish. Hell, even TRADOC armsrooms are full auto as of 2018.

Interesting. So, we are back to wasting ammo (not hitting the target) and having to carry more of it. What was the reasoning behind this decision?

 

[Phr3121]

Nope, doesn’t work that way, a “collector” FFL covers curio and relic firearns only (machineguns and other NFA regulated arms are excempted from being C&R eligible)

A SOT holder (say an 02/07 FFL who provides LEOs with machinegun samples can own any pre/post 86 machinegun) however they MUST be in the business of selling guns, period.

That is not how I'm reading this:

What can you do with a Collector FFL?

"The licensed collector can buy "Curio & Relic" (C&R) firearms directly from a distributor, dealer, or other persons without having to go through a licensed dealer. Many licensed collectors order guns directly from sources on the internet or listings in publications such as Gun List or Shotgun News."

What is a C&R firearm?

"Federal regulations define C&R guns as those "which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or … as weapons." To be considered a C&R, such a gun must fall into one of three categories:

• Any gun which is at least 50 years old;
• A gun which has been certified by the curator of a government museum as of museum interest; or
• A gun whose value is substantially derived from its novelty, rarity, oddity, or historical attribution.

Of these, the "50 year old" is the broadest and most definite group. If you can prove that the gun in question (not the model, but the specific gun) is at least 50 years old, it is a C&R gun, eligible for licensed collector purchase."

"The other two classes are a bit more subjective. Presumably, you could rely on the "curator's certification" of C&R status if you kept a copy of the certification with the gun. The "value derived" class is quite subjective. The BATF will make a determination as to whether such a gun is a C&R on written application from a licensed collector. C&R status based on this class has often been given to commemorative firearms. The BATF publishes a list of previously approved C&R firearms, upon which a licensed collector may rely."

 

[floivanus]

That is not how I'm reading this:

What can you do with a Collector FFL?

"The licensed collector can buy "Curio & Relic" (C&R) firearms directly from a distributor, dealer, or other persons without having to go through a licensed dealer. Many licensed collectors order guns directly from sources on the internet or listings in publications such as Gun List or Shotgun News."

What is a C&R firearm?

"Federal regulations define C&R guns as those "which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or … as weapons." To be considered a C&R, such a gun must fall into one of three categories:

• Any gun which is at least 50 years old;
• A gun which has been certified by the curator of a government museum as of museum interest; or
• A gun whose value is substantially derived from its novelty, rarity, oddity, or historical attribution.

Of these, the "50 year old" is the broadest and most definite group. If you can prove that the gun in question (not the model, but the specific gun) is at least 50 years old, it is a C&R gun, eligible for licensed collector purchase."

"The other two classes are a bit more subjective. Presumably, you could rely on the "curator's certification" of C&R status if you kept a copy of the certification with the gun. The "value derived" class is quite subjective. The BATF will make a determination as to whether such a gun is a C&R on written application from a licensed collector. C&R status based on this class has often been given to commemorative firearms. The BATF publishes a list of previously approved C&R firearms, upon which a licensed collector may rely."

Okay, there are curio and relic machineguns (maxims, etc) that were manufactured and registered as NFA items many, many moons ago, they cannot be manufactured, remanufactured, or even registered by any civilian (again an SOT holding FFL with a letter from law enforcement atating that their agency wishes to work with the FFL for research purposes is the one non government exception) C&R machineguns are the top of the top tier for pricing on transferable machineguns, the 1934 NFA didn’t allow them to easily enter the country, and the 1968 MG amnesty was the last chance to bring in an all original war captured machinegun, everything from that point until 1986 was a CLONE, a copy, a build from a destroyed gun, or a conversion from a semi automatic rifle.

You see, the issue that is had with “civilians” (non government or your SOT FFLs (and that exemption is ONLY because a government agency (police) want to use the SOT FFL for research purposes) being able to own whatever machinegun they want is two fold; EVERY individual machinegun MUST transfer thru the FBI/ATF every time it is transferred between owners, along with a $200 tax and a year long background check, thanks to the 1934 NFA. Then in May of 1934 we got the Hughes amendment that created USC 922(o)

(o) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any person to transfer or possess a machinegun.

(2) This subsection does not apply with respect to:

(A) a transfer to or by, or possession by or under the authority of, the United States or any department or agency thereof or a State, or a department,agency, or political subdivision thereof;or

(B) any lawful transfer or lawful possession of a machinegun that was lawfully possessed before the date this subsection takes effect.

In the case of “lawfully possesed” it means in accordance to the 1934 NFA, in other words if it isn’t one of the finite guns that have their serial number registered with the NFA branch, you cannot own it as a civilian.

 

[HIMBOB]

You asking about in the US or in my country?

Aus = keep
US = restrict

Haven't voted.

 

[Phr3121]

@floivanus

Had someone working the armory at a U.S. Army National Guard unit buy spare parts to an M60 machine gun and have it mailed (UPS) to his home - maybe the unit. Took him about a year, but he did put the whole thing together and kept it. This was in the early 1980s. Not sure this could be done today.

 

[BillytheFish]

Poll is useless as non-Americans post here and a lot of un-American cucks as well and none of them matter.

The government has no right to tell me what I can and cannot own.

So you feel you have nothing to learn from other nations in the world?

 

[floivanus]

@floivanus

Had someone working the armory at a U.S. Army National Guard unit buy spare parts to an M60 machine gun and have it mailed (UPS) to his home - maybe the unit. Took him about a year, but he did put the whole thing together and kept it. This was in the early 1980s. Not sure this could be done today.

May 19,1986 is the prohibition on the creation of civilian machineguns. Anything built and in the NFA registry before that point is legal to own.

My view on it, repeal the Hughes amendment, Re-open the registry