International Vance, Zelensky, Trump argue in front of press

[Domitian]

I think Russia will keep chipping away but if Ukraine want to defend themselves against that then let them.

Let them keep getting chipped away and lose their sovereignty completely? Zelensky and the nations that support Ukraine might want to do that but I wonder how the average citizen feels about that. It's a soft war against Russia by people who don't give a fuck about that average Ukrainian as fodder.

Is a peace deal really that bad? Ukraine was denied into NATO. NATO doesn't want to put boots on the ground and actually fuck Russia up. Ukrainians are going to get a slow death with the status quo and Russia will become more powerful.

 

[oldshadow]

"Dems lead Zelensky, Ukraine off a cliff with pressure to reject mineral deal."​

If source is correct then he was set up to fail by the democrats.

Disaster in the Oval Office: Dems lead Zelensky, Ukraine off a cliff with pressure to reject mineral deal

Before meeting Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal the president was offering, according to Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn).

nypost.com

 

[Cajun]

I did see he was on Bret Baier, but haven’t had time to see it yet, tho I plan to. However, the comments I have seen about we the opposite take. Will be interesting to see since I feel trump is going to take a hardline now that it is this deal or nothing, especially since Europe is showing so much support for Zelensky, well they can have him, will be Trump’s thoughts.

I just rewatched the last 15 minutes of the sit down press conference, it’s crazy. Trump and Vance answered a number of press questions, I think great answers. Trump says they will take one more, which he and Vance both answered. Was about to end, then Zelensky literally interjects himself to talk down to Vance, while saying basically like the foreign diplomacy has been bad since 2014 - 2022 was basically nothing, and the only successful deplomacy with Ukraine happened 2022 and after, which is Biden being weak, throwing money at a stalemate with no actual diplomacy.

Implying that from 2016 - 2020 (when Trump did the things I mentioned, and Russia didn’t do shit). Then just keeps egging it on. Crazy

I posted the link above and it's only 20 minutes. It's worth a watch. I just finished it and it seems like he is definitely eager to get this deal done. He's very eager to have greater ties with United States and I think sharing some of the resources using us technology and equipment along with increasing jobs for his own people. He seems like he would walk back into the White House today if he was given the opportunity. I hope Trump does not take a hard line stance in another meeting. Just let it go.

And yeah it's crazy how great the entire press conference went until the very end. The statement by Vance I think was meant to be a jab at Biden but the way he said it almost seemed like regretting giving all of the support in funding and military aid over the last 3 years. And I think zelensky took it the wrong way and got offended. But he should have remained calm and definitely Trump should have calmed the situation overall after the short back and forth.

 

[nhbbear]

Could be. Everything was going well, until Zelensky, who did minor jabs throughout, basically says Trump did nothing during his first term (despite lots of things like sanctioning nordstream 2, Iran who supplies Russia, got NATO countries to pay more, gave Ukraine weapons). And then to say Trump’s admin is dumb in terms of foreign relations lol.

Now you have lots of people like this claiming it is trumps fault, they are trashy blah blah. Zelensky had apparently agreed to the deal and this was all formal. Planned a lunch, had set up the area to sign the bill, etc. this was all planned and on the schedule. There was nothing left to discuss behind closed doors, unless Zelensky didn’t want to sign. But they had already prepared the schedule for him to sign lol

Yep, still trashy for vance to try and bully someone whose country is in desperate need

 

[Cajun]

"Dems lead Zelensky, Ukraine off a cliff with pressure to reject mineral deal."​

If source is correct then he was set up to fail by the democrats.

It doesn't seem like it's something that Zelinsky wants in terms of rejection. He seems like he considers this a good idea for both countries. But I think whatever Trump comes up with is always a bad idea for the Democrats. But I don't doubt it would be the same way if it was Biden's deal for republicans. Such is politics

 

[aerius]

Right, so you instantly backtrack on your initial assertion. The “fuck” we want is to keep supplying Ukraine with military equipment, medical supplies and funds so that they can continue to fight. It’s absolutely bullshit to say they cannot win. The Soviet Union got its ass handed to it in Afghanistan. The US got fucked up in Vietnam. There us absolutely no reason to assume Ukraine- properly supported- cannot beat back Russia.

It's like you don't know a damn thing about history or war. Both Vietnam and Afghanistan were unpopular wars in the ass end of nowhere at the end of some very long and limited supply lines, especially in the case of Afghanistan.

Ukraine is a war right on the front door of Russia which enjoys widespread support among Russians, I believe the current approval rating is something like 70-75% with many of them calling for total victory at any cost. Putin would have a hard time stopping the war even if he wanted to.

 

[Cajun]

Yep, still trashy for vance to try and bully someone whose country is in desperate need

I didn't take it as that. I saw he made a misstep in the characterization and Zelensky took offense.

 

[TheGreatA]

Agreed. It seems that the interview I just watched indicates that he want to redo the meeting and get it done. I think he likes the mineral ties and sharing money and resources. Hopefully he speaks with Trump again before departing.

Trump should probably have a one on one conversation with Zelensky. To be honest I think he would have gotten the deal done right there, if he didn't feel prompted to back up his VP on some ultimately meaningless BS.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Let them keep getting chipped away and lose their sovereignty completely? Zelensky and the nations that support Ukraine might want to do that but I wonder how the average citizen feels about that. It's a soft war against Russia by people who don't give a fuck about that average Ukrainian as fodder.

Is a peace deal really that bad? Ukraine was denied into NATO. NATO doesn't want to put boots on the ground and actually fuck Russia up. Ukrainians are going to get a slow death with the status quo and Russia will become more powerful.

I think if the average Ukrainian was against it we'd be seeing a lot of civil unrest and demonstrations to surrender but I'm not really seeing any evidence of that.

 

[Cajun]

Trump should probably have a one on one conversation with Zelensky. To be honest I think he would have gotten the deal done right there, if he didn't feel prompted to back up his VP on some ultimately meaningless BS.

Agreed 100%. At this point, Trump is a much better negotiator and did well even with some loaded questions right up until Vance interjected. Told my dad the same thing though. Trump needs to handle this and not Vance. Vance needs to take a step back.

 

[Libero cane v2]

I always wanted to visit Norway and some of the neighboring Scandinavian countries. Seems like a lot of beauty there.

Don’t hesitate to reach out for suggestions if you do!

 

[Soggust]

"Dems lead Zelensky, Ukraine off a cliff with pressure to reject mineral deal."​

If source is correct then he was set up to fail by the democrats.

Disaster in the Oval Office: Dems lead Zelensky, Ukraine off a cliff with pressure to reject mineral deal

Before meeting Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal the president was offering, according to Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn).

nypost.com

"Just finished a meeting with President Zelensky here in Washington. He confirmed that the Ukrainian people will not support a fake peace agreement where Putin gets everything he wants and there are no security arrangements for Ukraine,” Murphy’s office posted on X at 11:15 a.m. Friday."


Ignoring the obvious agenda of the article, this is the actual source that article is quoting.

Is the author suggesting that Zelenskyy had previously agreed to a fake peace agreement where Putin got everything he wanted? Because unless he agreed to that, I don't see how this quote changes Zelenskyy's position.

 

[Cajun]

Don’t hesitate to reach out for suggestions if you do!

Will do. Traveling to other places and cultures is my one passion in life. Seeing some of the cities and fjords would be epic. Cheers man.

 

[Domitian]

I think if the average Ukrainian was against it we'd be seeing a lot of civil unrest and demonstrations to surrender but I'm not really seeing any evidence of that.

That's a little insane in my opinion and they are in an impossible position but I suppose the choice to get conquered is theirs.

 

[Libero cane v2]

It's like you don't know a damn thing about history or war. Both Vietnam and Afghanistan were unpopular wars in the ass end of nowhere at the end of some very long and limited supply lines, especially in the case of Afghanistan.

Ukraine is a war right on the front door of Russia which enjoys widespread support among Russians, I believe the current approval rating is something like 70-75% with many of them calling for total victory at any cost. Putin would have a hard time stopping the war even if he wanted to.

You can chose to believe the legitimacy of polls by the Russian state media, if you want. To me it holds about only marginally more weight than a poll taken in North Korea. You do realise criticising the regime or the military can get you excluded from work opportunities and social life (best case) or thrown in prison?

 

[oldshadow]

"Just finished a meeting with President Zelensky here in Washington. He confirmed that the Ukrainian people will not support a fake peace agreement where Putin gets everything he wants and there are no security arrangements for Ukraine,” Murphy’s office posted on X at 11:15 a.m. Friday."


Ignoring the obvious agenda of the article, this is the actual source that article is quoting.

Is the author suggesting that Zelenskyy had previously agreed to a fake peace agreement where Putin got everything he wanted? Because unless he agreed to that, I don't see how this quote changes Zelenskyy's position.

It was a peace agreement it was a cease fire and work from there. The mineral deal was a way to stabilize the area and get back funds. The democrats encouraged him to reject the cease fire and the deal.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

I posted the link above and it's only 20 minutes. It's worth a watch. I just finished it and it seems like he is definitely eager to get this deal done. He's very eager to have greater ties with United States and I think sharing some of the resources using us technology and equipment along with increasing jobs for his own people. He seems like he would walk back into the White House today if he was given the opportunity. I hope Trump does not take a hard line stance in another meeting. Just let it go.

And yeah it's crazy how great the entire press conference went until the very end. The statement by Vance I think was meant to be a jab at Biden but the way he said it almost seemed like regretting giving all of the support in funding and military aid over the last 3 years. And I think zelensky took it the wrong way and got offended. But he should have remained calm and definitely Trump should have calmed the situation overall after the short back and forth.

Agreed, hope they don’t even have to negotiate more. Kind of makes me laugh tho. All he had to do was either sit there and be quiet, or basically say ANYTHING other than what he did lol

as an aside, Also agree the entire press conference was great. Keep in mind, the press was hostile, but Trump and Vance handled it well.

One of the reporters asked Vance such a one sidedly framed question, which the press always does, positively for Biden, negative for anyone Trump. But the reporter is basically like:

“please comment on how you feel you can be diplomatic with Europe, the Uk for instance as Ser Kier was there yesterday, but how can you be a leader of the world when you lie that they censor information?”

Uhh, the EU is very open about censorship, banning political parties, etc. Especially the UK arresting people over tweets lol

 

[Cajun]

Agreed, hope they don’t even have to negotiate more. Kind of makes me laugh tho. All he had to do was either sit there and be quiet, or basically say ANYTHING other than what he did lol

as an aside, Also agree the entire press conference was great. Keep in mind, the press was hostile, but Trump and Vance handled it well.

One of the reporters asked Vance such a one sidedly framed question, which the press always does, positively for Biden, negative for anyone Trump. But the reporter is basically like:

“please comment on how you feel you can be diplomatic with Europe, the Uk for instance as Ser Kier was there yesterday, but how can you be a leader of the world when you lie that they censor information?”

Uhh, the EU is very open about censorship, banning political parties, etc. Especially the UK arresting people over tweets lol

What the?! I missed that question. Terrible. I thought some of the Russia ones were loaded are you aligning with Putin. I thought Trump gave a great response basically telling them if I trash the guy and then call him on the phone and say hey let's make a peace deal it's not going to go well. He was 100% correct.

To ask the question above seems ridiculous also. It's almost as if they want to see something break down so there is no peace deal.

 

[Cole train]

You can chose to believe the legitimacy of polls by the Russian state media, if you want. To me it holds about only marginally more weight than a poll taken in North Korea. You do realise criticising the regime or the military can get you excluded from work opportunities and social life (best case) or thrown in prison?

Majority of russians are pro war, anyone who has any ties to ex soviet countries and interacts with russians regularly knows this.

Shit i have heard nothing but pro war stuff from russians

 

[Cajun]

You can chose to believe the legitimacy of polls by the Russian state media, if you want. To me it holds about only marginally more weight than a poll taken in North Korea. You do realise criticising the regime or the military can get you excluded from work opportunities and social life (best case) or thrown in prison?

This makes some sense. I also think Putin can kind of do what he wants here but what I think he does not want to do is lose face. I think he does want out though if he is indeed considering peace talks as has been reported. I think it was a lot harder than what he initially thought