Usyk lacked a punch at cruiser weight.

[PUO3]

Julian "J-Rock" Williams' trainer (Stephen "Breadman" Edwards) on Usyk's punching technique

Daily Bread Mailbag: Spence-Garcia, Usyk, Easter, Pacquiao

Stop being logical.

 

[Yacob]

Usyk throws lighter by design even when he realistically should be throwing harder shots. It would be a simple adjustment for him to make by sitting on them much more often (especially when he has an opponent on the ropes or cornered) and actually snapping his punches while driving through the target.

For example, the shots below should be heavy. His man is cornered and just covering up so he's able to freely pick his shots and unload with fight-ending power punches. Yet, that isn't what happens.

The Bellew fight was the same


Except that last left hand on Bellew was a fastball....he sat down on that 1 single punch and it just about blew the guy's head off

He can throw real heat when he wants to

 

[purpleheart]

Perhaps we should invite the bomber to this thread?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

The Bellew fight was the same

Except that last left hand on Bellew was a fastball....he sat down on that 1 single punch and it just about blew the guy's head off

He can throw real heat when he wants to

For sure. He committed to the rear hook and blindsided Bellew with it beautifully. He was noticeably more comfortable committing given the circumstances. The potential threat of getting countered wasn't significant since Bellew was already in a vulnerable state and heavily exposed (front foot heavy, hips squared up, stance narrow and upright, guard very low on the left and loose on the right). Stepping in behind the jab while not breaking stride allowed him to carry some of that momentum into the follow-up hook. He got good rotation here and placed the shot well.

 

[Dacoda]

Your right Loma is still a dead ordinary counter puncher. But he actually threw one whole counter punch in the Campbell fight, so I'll let him of for a bit. His fans are still nob heads that wouldn't know pro boxing from a kick in the pants though. and usyk severely lacks punch at heavyweight.

You are crazy or a troll

 

[Seano]

Stop smoking pole. @Seano doesn't go out of his way to can on any boxer. That's my thing, and I only do that because certain fighters fan girls attacked me over giving valid criticism. Also no one is saying anybody sucks, just that fans rate certain fighters a bit too highly.

I just don't like when I see fans pretending someone is something they're not.

I mean, one of my criticisms has been that he's not a puncher. People get mad about that, can't defend and then flip the script and act like its what they said all along too. He's a slow starter? No, he's just trying to get rounds in! He's just that good that he makes himself look bad.

Its not good when you can say all these things about a boxer. Its ridiculous that that has to be said. Any other boxer that takes 5 rounds to get going, you'd criticize them for it. Any other boxer that almost everyone agrees is easy to hit and has no pop in his punches, you'd say he was going to struggle moving up in weight.

A week ago, half this forum was insisting Holyfield would get worked against Usyk. Imagine if Holyfield ever had that version of Witherspoon in front of him in his prime.

 

[Seano]

The Bellew fight was the same


Except that last left hand on Bellew was a fastball....he sat down on that 1 single punch and it just about blew the guy's head off

He can throw real heat when he wants to

Why does he choose not to? Seems sort of weird.

 

[vapor&dust]

For sure. He committed to the rear hook and blindsided Bellew with it beautifully. He was noticeably more comfortable committing given the circumstances. The potential threat of getting countered wasn't significant since Bellew was already in a vulnerable state and heavily exposed (front foot heavy, hips squared up, stance narrow and upright, guard very low on the left and loose on the right). Stepping in behind the jab while not breaking stride allowed him to carry some of that momentum into the follow-up hook. He got good rotation here and placed the shot well.

Not sure why you're impressed by this or what you think it shows. Bellew threw a lazy cross, didn't bring his hand back to defend and his left hand was down too. Predictable what happened. Usyk could have knocked him down with either hand.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

Why does he choose not to? Seems sort of weird.

STICK punches, dude. Gawd.

Nah, I can agree with people saying that's how most of his fights go, but that's not a good thing. He might be able to sit a little more on his punches than he does, but if he's not able to consistently stand in the pocket and throw real heat on a regular basis because of defensive issues, it's not gonna be great for him with real HWs who throw bombs with every shot they throw. Fair criticisms

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Not sure why you're impressed by this or what you think it shows. Bellew threw a lazy cross, didn't bring his hand back to defend and his left hand was down too. Predictable what happened. Usyk could have knocked him down with either hand.

It shows what I broke down. When Usyk actually commits to his punches he can hurt guys. I know what a guard is and how it works but thanks for letting me know that Usyk could've indeed used his other hand, only, it was too busy setting up the one he actually used to KO the guy.

 

[vapor&dust]

It shows what I broke down. When Usyk actually commits to his punches he can hurt guys. I know what a guard is and how it works but thanks for letting me know that Usyk could've indeed used his other hand, only, it was too busy setting up the one he actually used to KO the guy.

Bellew was done and his hands were down. Usyk didn't need to set up anything. He could have led with a hook at 70% power and the result would have been the same. That's why I say this doesn't really address Usyk's power one way or the other.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Bellew was done and his hands were down. Usyk didn't need to set up anything. He could have led with a hook at 70% power and the result would have been the same. That's why I say this doesn't really address Usyk's power one way or the other.

Bellew was vulnerable and wide open. I said that. That punch would've knocked him out even if he was fresh. What's important is that Usyk felt entirely comfortable hitting him harder to get him out of there. Was it because he wasn't at risk of being countered since Bellew was diminished? That's likely part of it and it's probably a safe assumption to make. When you fully commit to your shots you assume more risk when opening up. Usyk typically doesn't fully commit to his power shots until after he has them broken down. It allows him to have a higher punch output since he's not putting as much power into his shots and it allows him to box and move with ease while conserving energy for a finish when they're most vulnerable to being knocked out. That strategy, if it's strictly kept, can be exploited because it restricts him from abruptly finishing a fight before seeing those signs but the capacity for him to hit harder has always been there.

Also, he did try to get up from the knockdown but clearly wasn't fit to continue. If he was truly out on his feet prior to eating that hook then I doubt he would've been able to attempt beating the count at all. Fighters aren't always going to hit you as hard as they necessarily can with their power punches. Some guys punch differently by design and as a result their mechanics aren't exactly the same. You can call it amateur technique but it has its advantages and disadvantages just like everything else does in boxing.

Do punches that should appear to be more powerful when they land look like arm punches or slaps? If so then you can be certain that with a tweak or two they'll hit significantly harder. Even a relative novice commentator can spot the difference in their form, to be honest. It's not uncommon to see among fighters with strong amateur boxing backgrounds in particular.

 

[Yacob]

Why does he choose not to? Seems sort of weird.

Honestly that is a legitimate question


I often wonder that about my friend Demetrius Andrade.....it's a riddle i haven't cracked

A few possibilities....1. Energy conservation. Overly conservative. Could be a habit.
2. Not willing to give opponents counter opportunities?

I'm sure you could think of some theories too....your guess is as good as mine

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Honestly that is a legitimate question


I often wonder that about my friend Demetrius Andrade.....it's a riddle i haven't cracked

A few possibilities....1. Energy conservation. Overly conservative. Could be a habit.
2. Not willing to give opponents counter opportunities?

I'm sure you could think of some theories too....your guess is as good as mine

I covered it above but it turned out much longer than I wanted it to be. Number 1 most likely, 2 is probably the case as well. We can't definitively know unless they reveal it or their trainer does.

Likely for limiting counter-punching opportunities (or at least the potential of being hurt as badly), and/or energy conservation for "boxing and moving", and/or to maintain higher activity and punch output, and/or surprising them with more power when they start to fade to switch the lights off.

 

[Yacob]

I covered it above but it turned out much longer than I wanted it to be. Number 1 for sure, 2 is probably the case as well. We can't know for sure unless they reveal it or their trainer does.

Likely for limiting counter-punching opportunities (or at least the potential of being hurt as badly), and/or energy conservation for "boxing and moving", and/or to maintain higher activity and punch output, and/or surprising them with more power when they start to fade to switch the lights off.

Could be a combination of everything

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Could be a combination of everything

Yep, so we can't definitively know unfortunately. Their intentions could be different and as you said, it could be a combination of advantages they're looking to gain by doing it.

Usually if it looks like a slap or an arm punch then they're either deliberately doing that or worst case scenario it's a technical deficiency. I know Usyk does it deliberately because so does Lomachenko, or at least he used to. They had the same schooling under the same trainer. They've been playing with those variables for years going back to the ams to regulate both speed and power of their shots. Andrade? I'm interested in looking at his technique to see.

 

[Yacob]

Yep, so we can't definitively know unfortunately. Their intentions could be different and as you said, it could be a combination of advantages they're looking to gain by doing it.

Usually if it looks like a slap or an arm punch then they're either deliberately doing that or worst case scenario it's a technical deficiency. I know Usyk does it deliberately because so does Lomachenko, or at least he used to. They had the same schooling under the same trainer. They've been playing with those variables for years going back to the ams to regulate both speed and power of their shots. Andrade? I'm interested in looking at his technique to see.

Andrade is like a defensive version of an outboxer like Usyk.

Andrade isn't as good offensively i dont think but he also doesn't really have any obvious flaws, Usyk gets hit with stuff Demetrius wouldn't but he also doesn't have the "spurtability" that Usyk has. Usyk will look in a mirror for a few rounds and you blink and he solved the puzzle...game over. Andrade will drop someone borderline unconscious and take his foot off the gas for the 2nd half of the fight.

They're like anti versions of each other but at the same time a lot alike....in my opinion

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Andrade is like a defensive version of an outboxer like Usyk.

Andrade isn't as good offensively i dont think but he also doesn't really have any obvious flaws, Usyk gets hit with stuff Demetrius wouldn't but he also doesn't have the "spurtability" that Usyk has. Usyk will look in a mirror for a few rounds and you blink and he solved the puzzle...game over. Andrade will drop someone borderline unconscious and take his foot off the gas for the 2nd half of the fight.

They're like anti versions of each other but at the same time a lot alike....in my opinion

I've watched several of Andrade's fights but never paid much attention to his technique. Spurtability as in explosiveness? I've used the term "bursty" before which is what I've heard used in the gym once. Twitchy is common as well. In order to judge I'll take a look at some of his fights with it in mind. Yeah, Andrade is fairly slick and athletic. I saw his last fight against the Polish guy, Sulecki.

 

[Yacob]

I've watched several of Andrade's fights but never paid much attention to his technique. Spurtability as in explosiveness? I've used the term "bursty" before which is what I've heard used in the gym once. Twitchy is common as well. In order to judge I'll take a look at some of his fights with it in mind. Yeah, Andrade is fairly slick and athletic. I saw his last fight against the Polish guy, Sulecki.

Spurtability is a basketball term...it means at any given moment, a team or in this case a guy can just start completely dominating in what seemed like a competitive game or fight

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Spurtability is a basketball term...it means at any given moment, a team or in this case a guy can just start completely dominating in what seemed like a competitive game or fight

I just call that going Saiyan. I'm not even a big Dragon Ball Z fan but somehow that stuck to mean abrupt domination approaching level 9,000.