International Trump: US will take over Gaza, resettle Palestinians

[avenue94]

there is some practicality to the saying, Gaza has been taken over by Hamas for a long long time, and after all that time, Hamas is Gaza, Gaza is Hamas, you can make a real case that it's not going to change. Hamas is a terrorist group because we use that language against them, and at the same time, they were voted in at one point. I'm not sure what you're suggesting here, that hamas is weeded out? fighting continue?

Except Gaza isn't just empty land, it's a couple million people.

I'm suggesting that ethnic cleansing is an extremely bad idea with next to no upsides for the US or the region. Hamas is popular in part because it tapped into the anger of a disfranchised population. Ethnic cleansing would only amplify that.

Some combination of a multinational peacekeeping force and an acceptance that progress will take decades would be a good start in my book.

 

[kflo]

Except Gaza isn't just empty land, it's a couple million people.

I'm suggesting that ethnic cleansing is an extremely bad idea with next to no upsides for the US or the region. Hamas is popular in part because it tapped into the anger of a disfranchised population. Ethnic cleansing would only amplify that.

Some combination of a multinational peacekeeping force and an acceptance that progress will take decades would be a good start in my book.

if you lived in gaza, would you want an option to relocate to a welcoming nation if possible?

 

[avenue94]

if you lived in gaza, would you want an option to relocate to a welcoming nation if possible?

Odd question given we know a large amount, if not most, Gazans aren't interested in being forced to move to another country in a process they had no say in. Nor are other countries interested in this hairbrained idea.

There's not much point in talking about hypotheticals when we have the actual real life problem facing us at the moment.

 

[chardog]

Except Gaza isn't just empty land, it's a couple million people.

I'm suggesting that ethnic cleansing is an extremely bad idea with next to no upsides for the US or the region. Hamas is popular in part because it tapped into the anger of a disfranchised population. Ethnic cleansing would only amplify that.

Some combination of a multinational peacekeeping force and an acceptance that progress will take decades would be a good start in my book.

peacekeeping force could easily be construed as an occupation, and you're sort of back to square one.

israel and gaza is not like typical bordering states, they had a buffer zone to overcome, they did that via massive coordinated attack, quite an accomplishment. A country that would go to those lengths would be a difficult neighbor, should the status quo continue. Maybe increase the buffer zone to 5 miles? 10 miles? you're eating up a crap ton of land, and it would be darn near impossible to pass that barrier, but then it might come at gaza's expense..... and the entirety of Gaza.

 

[avenue94]

peacekeeping force could easily be construed as an occupation, and you're sort of back to square one.

israel and gaza is not like typical bordering states, they had a buffer zone to overcome, they did that via massive coordinated attack, quite an accomplishment. A country that would go to those lengths would be a difficult neighbor, should the status quo continue. Maybe increase the buffer zone to 5 miles? 10 miles? you're eating up a crap ton of land, and it would be darn near impossible to pass that barrier, but then it might come at gaza's expense..... and the entirety of Gaza.

It could, which is why composition of it is important (aka US can't be that visible and you need buy in from the region, which Trump is doing the opposite of. And the peacekeeping force should focus more on a dmz or buffer rather than embedding with the population.

And as I've mentioned previously, Hamas preparation was impressive, but most of the scale of death and destruction came down to security missteps on Israel's part. I don't mean morally, I mean from a literal these are intelligence failures and miscalculations that Israel made which can be fixed.

 

[Fergelmince]

hmm technically you are correct with removal , but I think if ethic cleansing as termination. So if relocating ethic cleansing?

I wouldn't look to that dude for definitions of anything, let alone ethnic cleansing. He's way out of his league here and has a history of twisting definitions to fit the outcomes he wants to see. There can be no ethnic cleansing when there's no permanent expulsion and the people being temporarily displaced are welcome back.

 

[kflo]

Odd question given we know a large amount, if not most, Gazans aren't interested in being forced to move to another country in a process they had no say in. Nor are other countries interested in this hairbrained idea.

There's not much point in talking about hypotheticals when we have the actual real life problem facing us at the moment.

it's odd to ask about volunteer relocation after trump proposed voluntary relocation? this IS the real life problem.

first, there's no relocation without a place to relocate.

and lol at you responding to me asking if you'd want a OPTION to relocate by reframing it as "FORCED" to move.

would you want the option for you and your family if you knew you'd be in a rebuilding warzone for a generation and you had choices for your destination.......? or is it better to have no option but to stay in a refugee camp....

 

[avenue94]

it's odd to ask about volunteer relocation after trump proposed voluntary relocation? this IS the real life problem.

first, there's no relocation without a place to relocate.

and lol at you responding to me asking if you'd want a OPTION to relocate by reframing it as "FORCED" to move.

would you want the option for you and your family if you knew you'd be in a rebuilding warzone for a generation and you had choices for your destination.......? or is it better to have no option but to stay in a refugee camp....

Forgive me, I thought it would make sense to first find a new home for said population before asking then if they wanted to move to that new home.

Genius planning.

And lol at taking Trump or Bibi's word here that it's going to be voluntary if it goes down this path when they're still trying to strong arm other countries into participating in an idiotic plan.

 

[kflo]

Forgive me, I thought it would make sense to first find a new home for said population before asking then if they wanted to move to that new home.

Genius planning.

And lol at taking Trump or Bibi's word here that it's going to be voluntary if it goes down this path when they're still trying to strong arm other countries into participating in an idiotic plan.

i simply asked YOU if YOU would want an option and choice. you, for some reason, can't answer a simple question.

 

[avenue94]

i simply asked YOU if YOU would want an option and choice. you, for some reason, can't answer a simple question.

Which again, see my earlier response. Why discuss hypotheticals instead of the actual situation happening in real life? You're just lazily trying to deflect from reality.

I've told you many times: the only way forward is with policies that get buy in from the local population. You're proposing the opposite.

 

[kflo]

It could, which is why composition of it is important (aka US can't be that visible and you need buy in from the region, which Trump is doing the opposite of. And the peacekeeping force should focus more on a dmz or buffer rather than embedding with the population.

And as I've mentioned previously, Hamas preparation was impressive, but most of the scale of death and destruction came down to security missteps on Israel's part. I don't mean morally, I mean from a literal these are intelligence failures and miscalculations that Israel made which can be fixed.

are you proposing a free and autonomous gaza to do as they please inside gaza?

 

[avenue94]

are you proposing a free and autonomous gaza to do as they please inside gaza?

Nope. Why propose something that's realistically never existed in modern Gaza.

 

[PBAC]

Official explanation from the whitehouse today:

He didnt mean that
And if he did that isnt what he meant
And if it was he was joking

 

[Mr Holmes]

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5129173-trump-gaza-proposal-reaction/

Republican senators say Trump’s proposal to turn Gaza into the “Riviera of the Middle East” is gaining little traction on Capitol Hill and predict it won’t go anywhere, just like his plans to acquire Greenland and seize control of the Panama Canal.

“I think it’s a really dumb idea to talk about having U.S. troops in Gaza. It’s the last place on earth I’d send U.S. troops and I won’t support it,” said Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.).

 

[BFoe]

hmm technically you are correct with removal , but I think if ethic cleansing as termination. So if relocating ethic cleansing?

People think of it that way a lot, but it doesn’t have to be. Forced removal of a group because of their ethnicity is also ethnic cleansing.

wouldn't look to that dude for definitions of anything, let alone ethnic cleansing. He's way out of his league here and has a history of twisting definitions to fit the outcomes he wants to see. There can be no ethnic cleansing when there's no permanent expulsion and the people being temporarily displaced are welcome back.

What I have a history of doing is educating you, and ethnic cleansing is certainly isn’t “the outcome I want to see.” Wtf?

The definition you circled above is fine though, and is exactly what’s happening here. LOL at this being temporary. They have a plan to force these people out using the military, but no plan on where they can or should go—most Palestinians don’t want to go anywhere—or any plan to get them back. Most will probably never be able to return.

Seizing territory that doesn’t belong to us (or Israel) and forcibly removing people of a different ethnicity out at gunpoint is ethnic cleansing, and that doesn’t change just because you you yell, “Y’all come back now, ya hear?” while forcing them out of their homes and land.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Probably what this idiot is imagining:

 

[kflo]

Which again, see my earlier response. Why discuss hypotheticals instead of the actual situation happening in real life? You're just lazily trying to deflect from reality.

I've told you many times: the only way forward is with policies that get buy in from the local population. You're proposing the opposite.

lol. giving people the option to move is not doing the opposite. it's actually giving them the choice. you're refusing to accept this simple point.

i am not even commenting on what trump is proposing, since it's not clear. i'm asking YOU again, would you want the CHOICE for your family, or do you want to be told youze can't leave....

 

[avenue94]

lol. giving people the option to move is not doing the opposite. it's actually giving them the choice. you're refusing to accept this simple point.

i am not even commenting on what trump is proposing, since it's not clear. i'm asking YOU again, would you want the CHOICE for your family, or do you want to be told youze can't leave....

Right so what location are these folks being presented with as a choice to move? I personally like choices to be presented to myself in good faith, and not as scams.

 

[Fergelmince]

People think of it that way a lot, but it doesn’t have to be. Forced removal of a group because of their ethnicity is also ethnic cleansing.


What I have a history of doing is educating you, and ethnic cleansing is certainly isn’t “the outcome I want to see.” Wtf?

The definition you circled above is fine though, and is exactly what’s happening here. LOL at this being temporary. They have a plan to force these people out using the military, but no plan on where they can or should go—most Palestinians don’t want to go anywhere—or any plan to get them back. Most will probably never be able to return.

Seizing territory that doesn’t belong to us (or Israel) and forcibly removing people of a different ethnicity out at gunpoint is ethnic cleansing, and that doesn’t change just because you you yell, “Y’all come back now, ya hear?” while forcing them out of their homes and land.

I've already corrected you and enlightened you on how and why you've got it so wrong on this issue, so I'm not going to waste my time on that anymore. And I'm sorry to see the drug addiction has brought back the memory loss. Unfortunately I didn't foresee your reading comprehension being affected. Please get help kid.

https://drugabuse.com/treatment-centers/california/los-angeles/

 

[kflo]

Right so what location are these folks being presented with as a choice to move? I personally like choices to be presented to myself in good faith, and not as scams.

You can go to Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Lebabon, Iran, Indonesia, Egypt or the UK.