Trump-Ukraine Megathread V8

[MikeMcMann]

'We did withhold aid, but they did not know it'

We cannot dismiss how damning this tweet is in the hands of a good prosecution team.

In this singular tweet Trump has established there was both quid and quo but as pointed out his defense is 'well they did not know, so therefore no quo'.

So the prosecution no longer has to argue the quid or the quo side. That is now a given by the defense entered into evidence. All the prosecutors need do is establish that in fact the Ukrainians knew one hinged on the other. They establish that singular element reasonably, and it is done. Quid pro quo.

And its not like the QPQ was not obvious prior, it is just that the less elements you can show the defense stipulated to be true and not in dispute the less cluttered the argument is for everyone else.

 

[sdpdude9]

We cannot dismiss how damning this tweet is in the hands of a good prosecution team.

In this singular tweet Trump has established there was both quid and quo but as pointed out his defense is 'well they did not know, so therefore no quo'.

So the prosecution no longer has to argue the quid or the quo side. That is now a given by the defense entered into evidence. All the prosecutors need do is establish that in fact the Ukrainians knew one hinged on the other. They establish that singular element reasonably, and it is done. Quid pro quo.

And its not like the QPQ was not obvious prior, it is just that the less elements you can show the defense stipulated to be true and not in dispute the less cluttered the argument is for everyone else.

While it’s plain to see there is QPQ, let’s not forget that you don’t need that. It’s a Republican talking point to distract from the behavior being illegal regardless.

 

[Paynebringer]

The Trump presidency and administration is a growing cancer that will spread even once he's gone America will still be trying to remove the spots of cancer still dormant and lying in wait.

 

[MikeMcMann]

While it’s plain to see there is QPQ, let’s not forget that you don’t need that. It’s a Republican talking point to distract from the behavior being illegal regardless.

Yup. And i have said as much many times.

The Trump team has been great at marketing the one thing they think will be toughest to establish beyond any doubt (no collusion, no obstruction) as the only thing that matters so the Dems and voters stop caring about the dozen or so lesser crimes he did that would get any other POTUS impeached.

However as the QPQ continues to get exposed I feel its best value is to expose Republican Senate members who had been banking on no decisive proof of QPQ and thus went out on a limb stating that would be a reason for the Senate to convict but without that not so much. If they show hypocrisy there I hope it could hurt them with a portion of their voting base, even if only the independents.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Well.....he did basically force Mexico (at Gunpoint, figuratively-speaking) to enforce their own borders if they wanted to continue having Good trade with the U.S. (or something to that effect, I forgot how it went).

So that's something that caught ME flat footed 'cause I never expected Mexico to finally stop letting their country turn into a Highway for Illegals to pass through on their way here in the U.S.

I'm in favor of strong border control.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Anyone who thinks this administration isn't incredibly corrupt is being a willful idiot at this point.

They do this all the time.
Get over it.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Anyone who thinks this administration isn't incredibly corrupt is being a willful idiot at this point.

They do this all the time.
Get over it.

Wait, has the official switch in rhetoric been made. I've been ready for a while.

 

[KeepItRealist]

Do you think Bill Taylor wrote his 15 page opening or did he pull a Mueller and hand it off?

Would like to see him under oath. But remember how that went for Democrats with the two-year hoax.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Wait, has the official switch in rhetoric been made. I've been ready for a while.

I'm still amazed he said it.
"We've broken the law over and over, you won't do shit about it."

 

[MikeMcMann]

I've noticed Trump not just softening his language towards Bolton again when asked, but being nice.

He has realized that he has given Bolton the kill shot that would almost certainly bury his presidency beyond all others. Bolton may not be widely liked, and despised by many but that does not change the fact he is known for being an honest broker and willing to put his politics on the table, hate those politics or not.

I just can't imagine how Trump must feel about John lurking knowing how much power he has given him and with Bolton having a potential blockbuster in a Tell All book deal.

Drop the book and then testify that week and watch your book sales skyrocket.

I am not confident how Bolton will go. While I am sure he sees Trump and a second term of Trump as an undoing or counter to the Foreign Policy plans John has been working his entire career for, I am also sure he would see the top Dems (outside Biden or Hillary) as even worse. However if he sees someone behind Trump who he thinks might pull the US back in direction he wants he might just decide he has to tolerate one term with Dem POTUS.

When Bolton gets subpoena'd to come in, it will be, by far the biggest event of this Inquiry stage. Will he tell all or will he be a 'republican first' and by republican that means become a Trump republican, something I think he has never considered himself.

 

[computer fogie]

Do you think Bill Taylor wrote his 15 page opening or did he pull a Mueller and hand it off?

Would like to see him under oath. But remember how that went for Democrats with the two-year hoax.

What would your reaction be if Taylor can't be discredited? Would you think that maybe Trump really did do what he's being accused of? Or would you continue to cling to the belief that he did nothing wrong, and it's all a massive conspiracy against him?

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

They are in full panic wrestling mode.

 

[computer fogie]

Where is Rudy?

I find his sudden disappearance very interesting. Immediately after the first two Ukrainian friends of his got arrested, he's been totally silent. Not a single word in the news from him. He knows that those crooks are being pressured hard to flip on him in exchange for a plea bargain, and he's got to be very very worried.

It took this to shut his big mouth. These career criminals get too arrogant sometimes, and nobody is more arrogant than Trump and Rudy. They are both in deep shit, and they both know it.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

To be fair...I kind of trust Trump over McConnell these days, lol.

Idk
Who's the Man when he tells a supporter to suck his balls, and the guy does it gladly?

 

[KeepItRealist]

What would your reaction be if Taylor can't be discredited? Would you think that maybe Trump really did do what he's being accused of? Or would you continue to cling to the belief that he did nothing wrong, and it's all a massive conspiracy against him?

He's already been discredited. This is about his personal opinion. We've already seen the call. There is nothing new here. Anyone who believes that stupid phone call they are pushing this bs on is an impeachment offense is living in la la land.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I find his sudden disappearance very interesting. Immediately after the first two Ukrainian friends of his got arrested, he's been totally silent. Not a single word in the news from him. He knows that those crooks are being pressured hard to flip on him in exchange for a plea bargain, and he's got to be very very worried.

It took this to shut his big mouth. These career criminals get too arrogant sometimes, and nobody is more arrogant than Trump and Rudy. They are both in deep shit, and they both know it.

If only certain people knew how to handle difficult questions that require smooth lies

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

He's already been discredited. This is about his personal opinion. We've already seen the call. There is nothing new here. Anyone who believes that stupid phone call they are pushing this bs on is an impeachment offense is living in la la land.

You'd find that phone call a big problem if those involved were different people and everyone knows it to a certainty.

 

[KeepItRealist]

You'd find that phone call a big problem if those involved were different people and everyone knows it to a certainty.

This is a circus. He won't be impeached. It's the exact same stuff as the Russia Hoax. Two years of these leaked revelations that all go nowhere. Democrats accusing Trump of doing exactly what they were doing themselves. And the media is very much the enemy of the public, not it's voice.

 

[KeepItRealist]

Bill Taylor's personal opinion is now the deciding factor on everything - Democrats.