Tinfoil thread: If Francis is considering UFC again allegedly, what if Dana is using a Jones fight to bargain

[CC27]

Francis is signed with PFL, nobody is considering shit.

 

[CC27]

Not sure there's much to bargain about here. PFL has Francis under contract for 1 more fight, and they're not giving him away for free.

That means if Francis were to come to the UFC, PFL would be getting a cut of his fight. And I can tell you that cut won't come from the UFC because there will be no co-promotion. PFL's money would come from Francis' earnings. And with what the PFL would be expecting, Francis would basically have to fight Jon Jones for free. Not happening.

UFC is not putting someone who isnt under contract in a fight in their cage. Even if PFL said we'll pay Francis his purse and wont even ask for co promotion, just loan him to you the UFC still wouldnt do that.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Not sure there's much to bargain about here. PFL has Francis under contract for 1 more fight, and they're not giving him away for free.

That means if Francis were to come to the UFC, PFL would be getting a cut of his fight. And I can tell you that cut won't come from the UFC because there will be no co-promotion. PFL's money would come from Francis' earnings. And with what the PFL would be expecting, Francis would basically have to fight Jon Jones for free. Not happening.

Frank could fight his last fight for PFL and then come back could he not? I don't know if he will but its not like there is anyone on the PFL roster that might beat him.

I think your numbers are a bit off. He did not make 50 mill in boxing, no one knows the real numbers aside him and his management. But the estimated payout for Fury was 10 million, and for Joshua it was projected 20 million. So the boxing pay out is around 30 million, the PPV generated nothing so he didn't earn any more there.

For the UFC his offer was 8 million + PPV, so you can be assured with PPV that pay goes up to 10 million +. Now the contract he got was a 3 fight deal. If Francis lost, his pay would go down as he wouldn't be champion. But if he won and stayed champion, then his pay would stay the same or go up.

A lot of what happened was based on Francis performing. He fought great vs Fury, that earned him a big fight with Joshua. If he lost and got KO'd that Joshua fight doesn't happen, so that bigger pay day wouldn't be there. Same with the UFC, if he beats Jones then he would keep earning big money.

In the end, if you compare the 3 fights he made in boxing + PFL and 3 UFC fights maintaining the champions pay, it would look like 40 milion vs 30-32 million.

Keep in mind, I am going over what he could have earned and what he did in both scenarios. Not which was the better scenario for him. The boxing/PFL scenario was a safer bet to earn more money since it was two different promotions and sports.

Sorry I got the numbers wrong. Still didn't account for added revenue in sponsors vs Reebok coupons and a hot dog brander.

The $8M to fight Jon is a hypothetical number. Did that mean a base of $8M plus PPV bonus? I didn't interpret it that way. I see it as a guess at the total value based on what White estimated it would do in PPV. So that means its not an $8M per fight deal. So even after Jon who is the next payday? $30M plus sponsorships plus $8M for PFL is still vastly greater than $8M for Jon and then likely a quarter of that moving forward with the UFC.

Regardless of how you slice it financially it made way more sense for Francis to do what he did. The assertion he ran from Jon is patently ridiculous. Jon could have fought at HW anytime after his last LHW fight and didn't need years to add 15-25 lbs. Notice how he only showed up to fight at LHW when Francis was gone?

 

[mkess101]

It’s either come back and look like a greedy diva to people like yourself or get old and broke fighting people no casual fan knows. I think Frank is far more about business than worried about nasty names

Unless he's an absolute moron, he will never be close to broke. He's made $20m or something in the past 5 years.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

Ngannou has one fight left on his PFL deal. He's not going anywhere unless he finishes the deal. PFL said they'd co promote but UFC will never co promote even if it's best for business. They care about protecting their brand more than giving the fans what they want.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Frank could fight his last fight for PFL and then come back could he not? I don't know if he will but its not like there is anyone on the PFL roster that might beat him.

For sure he could. But there are speculations that PFL can't afford to pay him again. Supposedly the Ngannou vs Ferreira fight did terrible PPV numbers.

 

[mkess101]

Dude Aspinall has never headlined a PPV and the fans would definitely watch Bones vs Ngannou before anything Tom has to offer. Get real. Nobody on this thread is screaming what’s fair for Tom or not. The UFC has A BUSINESS to run and Bones vs Ngannou brings a better draw than Aspinall back to the UFC and still provides a fight 90% of mma fans would watch. You want tocry justicefor Tom howabout make a thread and stop trying to force others to cry along with you. The shit is tired doing that shit on threads not asking for it

Ngannou is a HUUUUGE draw. His PFL ppv did a whopping 10k (yes, you read that correctly, 10k) buys even though it was way cheaper at fifty bucks than what the UFC charges LMAO.

People have forgotten and no longer care about Francis. He's almost 40 and largely irrelevant now. Aspinall hasn't become a draw...YET. But it makes a helluva lot more sense to back him as a guy who can dominate for 5+ more years than for guys already past their prime.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

For sure he could. But there are speculations that PFL can't afford to pay him again. Supposedly the Ngannou vs Ferreira fight did terrible PPV numbers.

Well if they can't afford to pay him at some point he will be a free agent.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Well if they can't afford to pay him at some point he will be a free agent.

Yea I was saying that earlier, I wish we could see the contract. Presumably they're having to pay him something right now while they're not able to offer him a fight. Eventually they will have to let him go, but terminating his contract might be even more expensive.

Either way, I'm sure Dana is laughing for them signing him.

 

[JKS]

Frank could fight his last fight for PFL and then come back could he not? I don't know if he will but its not like there is anyone on the PFL roster that might beat him.

Sorry I got the numbers wrong. Still didn't account for added revenue in sponsors vs Reebok coupons and a hot dog brander.

The $8M to fight Jon is a hypothetical number. Did that mean a base of $8M plus PPV bonus? I didn't interpret it that way. I see it as a guess at the total value based on what White estimated it would do in PPV. So that means its not an $8M per fight deal. So even after Jon who is the next payday? $30M plus sponsorships plus $8M for PFL is still vastly greater than $8M for Jon and then likely a quarter of that moving forward with the UFC.

Regardless of how you slice it financially it made way more sense for Francis to do what he did. The assertion he ran from Jon is patently ridiculous. Jon could have fought at HW anytime after his last LHW fight and didn't need years to add 15-25 lbs. Notice how he only showed up to fight at LHW when Francis was gone?

That's okay

The 8 million was the figure in his contract, same structure as Jones with base pay + bonus pay (guaranteed pay around 8 million) and then PPV on top of that. But after that, his pay wasn't outlined as it was dependent on him being champion or not. If he beat Jones, then his pay would stay in that same ball park.

He made the right call to leave cause he had two different sports and promotions that guaranteed him 10 mill pay for two fights. He didn't have that with the UFC, if he lost then his pay would go down. But in the event that he did win and go 3 fights in the UFC, the pay would be not too far off from the route he did end up taking.

But regarding your point about him showing up when Francis was gone? That's not correct at all. Jon was booked for UFC 285 and making his HW debut in November of 2022, it was reported in the media. And that was 2 months prior to Francis leaving the UFC. From November 2022 to January 10th 2023, Francis was still in deep talks with the UFC while Jon was already booked for UFC 285. The event he fought on. Francis was offerd the fight with Jones for UFC 285 and declined.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

That's okay

The 8 million was the figure in his contract, same structure as Jones with base pay + bonus pay (guaranteed pay around 8 million) and then PPV on top of that. But after that, his pay wasn't outlined as it was dependent on him being champion or not. If he beat Jones, then his pay would stay in that same ball park.

He made the right call to leave cause he had two different sports and promotions that guaranteed him 10 mill pay for two fights. He didn't have that with the UFC, if he lost then his pay would go down. But in the event that he did win and go 3 fights in the UFC, the pay would be not too far off from the route he did end up taking.

But regarding your point about him showing up when Francis was gone? That's not correct at all. Jon was booked for UFC 285 and making his HW debut in November of 2022, it was reported in the media. And that was 2 months prior to Francis leaving the UFC. From November 2022 to January 10th 2023, Francis was still in deep talks with the UFC while Jon was already booked for UFC 285. The event he fought on. Francis was offerd the fight with Jones for UFC 285 and declined.

Source? Saying it was in the media isn't a source. Quick search shows this:
Jon Jones officially made his heavyweight debut at UFC 285 on March 4, 2023, with the fight against Ciryl Gane. The booking was formally announced by the UFC on January 14, 2023

That is literally Jon being in the wings until Francis has officially left. Nowhere have I seen anything that confirms Jon signed and accepted a fight contract against Ngannou. Dana White's words don't hold water BTW.

 

[Fedorgasm]

Jones wants no part of Ngannou, he'd just duck him like he's ducking Tom.

 

[JKS]

Source? Saying it was in the media isn't a source. Quick search shows this:
Jon Jones officially made his heavyweight debut at UFC 285 on March 4, 2023, with the fight against Ciryl Gane. The booking was formally announced by the UFC on January 14, 2023

That is literally Jon being in the wings until Francis has officially left. Nowhere have I seen anything that confirms Jon signed and accepted a fight contract against Ngannou. Dana White's words don't hold water BTW.

It was reported in pretty much every media outlet Nov 22, 2022, two months prior to Francis leaving the UFC that Jon will make his HW debut March 5th, 2023 at UFC 285. The targeted fight was vs Ngannou.

Jon Jones-Francis Ngannou Clash Targeted For UFC 285

Jon Jones is reportedly set to make his heavyweight debut at UFC 285 in March of next year.

www.ibtimes.com

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10056479-report-jon-jones-penciled-in-for-ufc-285-ngannou-blaydes-eyed-as-opponents

Ngannou was offered the fight in contract for UFC 285 and he declined. So Jones ended up fighting Gane instead.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

It was reported in pretty much every media outlet Nov 22, 2022, two months prior to Francis leaving the UFC that Jon will make his HW debut March 5th, 2023 at UFC 285. The targeted fight was vs Ngannou.

Jon Jones-Francis Ngannou Clash Targeted For UFC 285

Jon Jones is reportedly set to make his heavyweight debut at UFC 285 in March of next year.

www.ibtimes.com

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10056479-report-jon-jones-penciled-in-for-ufc-285-ngannou-blaydes-eyed-as-opponents

Ngannou was offered the fight in contract for UFC 285 and he declined. So Jones ended up fighting Gane instead.

Fair enough. Still don't see Jon taking a fight with Ngannou but its irrelevant.

1. No evidence Frank ducked Jon. Taking a far better offer when a free agent =/= Ducking as implied in the post I originally replied to.

2. Jon fighting Francis isn't relevant. Jon holds the UFC "Undisputed" title and there is an Interim champion and he has defended an INTERIM TITLE. Jon has to fight Aspinal or retire. The UFC isn't going to book Jon for anything but defending and unifying his HW title. Francis is signed with another promotion. If Jon can win a fight with Tom and Frank can win his last PFL fight then it could happen but simply put Jon is afraid. Afraid to lose. Afraid to vacate and retire and become irrelevant. Afraid of what he will be once he is no longer able to have UFC champion as his identity.

 

[JKS]

Fair enough. Still don't see Jon taking a fight with Ngannou but its irrelevant.

1. No evidence Frank ducked Jon. Taking a far better offer when a free agent =/= Ducking as implied in the post I originally replied to.

2. Jon fighting Francis isn't relevant. Jon holds the UFC "Undisputed" title and there is an Interim champion and he has defended an INTERIM TITLE. Jon has to fight Aspinal or retire. The UFC isn't going to book Jon for anything but defending and unifying his HW title. Francis is signed with another promotion. If Jon can win a fight with Tom and Frank can win his last PFL fight then it could happen but simply put Jon is afraid. Afraid to lose. Afraid to vacate and retire and become irrelevant. Afraid of what he will be once he is no longer able to have UFC champion as his identity.

Well of course there is no evidence that Francis ducked Jon.....because Francis simply didn't duck Jon. He took a better and safer deal for more money outside the UFC. It's just business and smart career moves on the part of Francis.

But Jon certainly would have taken the fight vs Francis for UFC 285, he already accepted the fight. it just didn't work out that way.

Neither guy ducked anyone here. It was just the business part of the sport that didn't work out.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Well of course there is no evidence that Francis ducked Jon.....because Francis simply didn't duck Jon. He took a better and safer deal for more money outside the UFC. It's just business and smart career moves on the part of Francis.

But Jon certainly would have taken the fight vs Francis for UFC 285, he already accepted the fight. it just didn't work out that way.

Neither guy ducked anyone here. It was just the business part of the sport that didn't work out.

I have always said no fighter can Duck anyone as they have no obligation to fight any other fighter. The Exception is of course anyone holding the UFC title. They are obligated to fight the legit #1 contender. I have never asserted Jon Ducked Francis but he most certainly did and continues to Duck Tom Aspinall.

 

[JKS]

I have always said no fighter can Duck anyone as they have no obligation to fight any other fighter. The Exception is of course anyone holding the UFC title. They are obligated to fight the legit #1 contender. I have never asserted Jon Ducked Francis but he most certainly did and continues to Duck Tom Aspinall.

If he doesn't take the Apsinal fight. I have already called it the biggest duck in MMA history.

Like you said, it's very rare to get an actual duck in the sport. Fighters may be selective over whom the fight and will take easier fights or better style match ups, but that's just the fight game and business. Nothing wrong with that.

But when there is only one fight on the table and it's mandatory. That is a blatant duck of epic proportions. Fans and media will not let go of this one for many many years. I think it will haunt Jon for the rest of his career.

 

[Goat Poster]

At least he is not banned from the UFC....

 

[KungFuCow]

Ngannou has one fight left on his PFL deal. He's not going anywhere unless he finishes the deal. PFL said they'd co promote but UFC will never co promote even if it's best for business. They care about protecting their brand more than giving the fans what they want.

For sure. If they wouldnt co-promote to get Fedor, theyre sure not going to for Francis.

 

[markys00]

The UFC is literally starving for big names and unless Frank gets the Deontay Wilder fight his ass is starving as well. It’s the biggest money fight he can get unless Wilder happens

Thank God they're not figuratively starving