Law The Line in the Sand - A challenge for Sherdog's Trump supporters

[nostradumbass]

Oh that's very untrue, which you'd understand if you actually read my post. If he undoes the shit he's done already, there are absolutely things he could do which would make me consider him a good President. Things like improving income inequality, instead of just giving tax breaks to the wealthy. Improving infrastructure and renewable energy, instead of bowing down to the oil industry. Improving the housing market, instead of deregulating the banking industry. Fostering alliances instead of destroying them. I could go on, and on, and on. But so far he has done very, very little that I would consider good, and a fuck-ton that I would consider terrible.

Well I've got good news then, because most of those are what he's already doing. Mortgage rates have declined from 7.04% when he took office to 6.6%, and are expected to continue declining throughout the term. The tax cuts disproportionately help middle income earners, the gini coefficient decreased in his first term and we are already seeing major companies commit to massive investments at their own expense building plants that average around 3,000 jobs/plant that are about 25% engineers making $120-130k, and 70% technicians averaging $70-90k. He's also stopped the flow of illegals that undercut and suppress wages, though democrats are fighting hard on that one so companies can avoid paying decent wages, and he's also tamping down on outsourcing.

Most of you inadvertently admit it depending on what topic is being discussed when you complain that cheap crap will get more expensive when companies actually have to pay Americans a decent wage to produce them instead of outsourcing or hiring illeglas.

We're only 3 months in, so that leave about 38 more months of the term to pick a few metrics and results by which you would consider him to have done a good job. You can pick things like unemployment, real wage increases, home ownership etc and just give a few numbers that you would say would make it a success.

 

[nostradumbass]

Well I've got good news then, because most of those are what he's already doing. Mortgage rates have declined from 7.04% when he took office to 6.6%, and are expected to continue declining throughout the term. The tax cuts disproportionately help middle income earners, the gini coefficient decreased in his first term and we are already seeing major companies commit to massive investments at their own expense building plants that average around 3,000 jobs/plant that are about 25% engineers making $120-130k, and 70% technicians averaging $70-90k. He's also stopped the flow of illegals that undercut and suppress wages, though democrats are fighting hard on that one so companies can avoid paying decent wages, and he's also tamping down on outsourcing.

Most of you inadvertently admit it depending on what topic is being discussed when you complain that cheap crap will get more expensive when companies actually have to pay Americans a decent wage to produce them instead of outsourcing or hiring illeglas.

We're only 3 months in, so that leave about 38 more months of the term to pick a few metrics and results by which you would consider him to have done a good job. You can pick things like unemployment, real wage increases, home ownership etc and just give a few numbers that you would say would make it a success.

*43 months until the next presidential election

 

[lweiberg]

As Trump's administration continues to push the boundaries of legality and the foundation of our Democracy, I'd like to issue a challenge to his remaining supporters on this forum.

Where do you draw the line in the sand? What would Trump or his administration have to do for you to finally say "enough is enough"? What would this nation have to become for you to withdraw all support for him and his administration?

You can say whatever you'd like, of course, but here are a few options.

Trump refuses to comply with orders from the Supreme Court.
The government begins threatening public officials. <----- You are here.
The government begins deporting incarcerated (convicted criminal) US citizens.
Trump declares war against (strikes or invades) an adversary.
Trump declares war against (strikes or invades) an ally.
Trump deploys the military within our borders.
Trump declares martial law.
The government arrests dissenters who are exercising their free speech.
The government begins deporting non-incarcerated (non-criminal) US citizens.
Trump refuses to leave office if impeached and convicted.
Trump dissolves Congress / SCOTUS.
Trump deploys the military against (fires upon) US citizens within our borders.
Trump pauses or cancels elections.

I make this thread solely in the interest of posterity and future discussions. I'm not claiming that any of the above is or is not probable (I'll keep my opinion on that to another discussion).

So, what does the "Don't Tread On Me" crowd say?

You forgot "Trump forces Sherdog to use 2FA."

 

[mommas homeboy]

As Trump's administration continues to push the boundaries of legality and the foundation of our Democracy, I'd like to issue a challenge to his remaining supporters on this forum.

Where do you draw the line in the sand? What would Trump or his administration have to do for you to finally say "enough is enough"? What would this nation have to become for you to withdraw all support for him and his administration?

You can say whatever you'd like, of course, but here are a few options.

Trump refuses to comply with orders from the Supreme Court.
The government begins threatening public officials. <----- You are here.
The government begins deporting incarcerated (convicted criminal) US citizens.
Trump declares war against (strikes or invades) an adversary.
Trump declares war against (strikes or invades) an ally.
Trump deploys the military within our borders.
Trump declares martial law.
The government arrests dissenters who are exercising their free speech.
The government begins deporting non-incarcerated (non-criminal) US citizens.
Trump refuses to leave office if impeached and convicted.
Trump dissolves Congress / SCOTUS.
Trump deploys the military against (fires upon) US citizens within our borders.
Trump pauses or cancels elections.

I make this thread solely in the interest of posterity and future discussions. I'm not claiming that any of the above is or is not probable (I'll keep my opinion on that to another discussion).

So, what does the "Don't Tread On Me" crowd say?

If leftists support it, I draw the line. If leftists hate it, I fully support it.

 

[Bobby00]

180 on border policy probably.

 

[Gamer2k4]

Made it to post before Whataboutism.

I see people are still cluelessly using the term "whataboutism" like it's some sort of gotcha fallacy. It's not.

It's a reasonable debate method to draw a comparison to similar events and question why those similarities are being ignored. If I wanted to buy a sports car and my wife said, "What about our rent that's six months overdue?" would that be "whataboutism" because she used those two magic words? Or would that be a sensible question that deserves my consideration?

 

[DoctorTaco]

I see people are still cluelessly using the term "whataboutism" like it's some sort of gotcha fallacy. It's not.

It's a reasonable debate method to draw a comparison to similar events and question why those similarities are being ignored. If I wanted to buy a sports car and my wife said, "What about our rent that's six months overdue?" would that be "whataboutism" because she used those two magic words? Or would that be a sensible question that deserves my consideration?

False equivalency .

It is used almost exclusively on this board as a hackey Technique to wiggle out of giving an honest response. The post I called out wasn’t about similarities that are being ignored, it was a snarky misdirection bringing up a guy who was president a decade ago.

I say all the time I wouldn’t have such an issue if people would actually address the question being asked and then give a “what about the other side!?” Statement. It’s exclusively either/or when it should be a “both/and”

 

[jeremyemilio]

Ok, so understanding all of that- what’s your line in the sand to stop supporting Trump?

Looooong crossed. I've never supported Trump.

In fact, all of the dismissive memeing notwithstanding, I actually think that "mean tweets" are a pretty valid reason to stop supporting a president, especially if those mean tweets are as incessant as they were with Trump.

What in hell is a world leader doing constantly sending out mean tweets? It's a clown show.

 

[jeremyemilio]

I don't see how. Presidential immunity has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The President is allowed to go up on stage and blurt out every racial slur imaginable, take a giant dump on stage, and tank the economy, but that doesn't exactly mean people have to support it.

This is actually a pretty good point.

I do think that the expectation that Republicans will turn on Trump for his tyrannical acts when the rank and file didn't turn on Obama (who, I must confess, I quite like myself) for his own, is probably a little pie in the sky.

But, yes, they certainly should. (And should have a long time ago.)

 

[jeremyemilio]

Democrats aren't the left.

I'm not certain I said that they were?

It's possible that I equated the two somewhere in there. But, yes, political alignments have always been complicated and been drifting in all sorts of odd directions for a while now, and Trump has exacerbated that exponentially.

I think you could even argue that a lot of the left (especially the purely economic left) has actually fled the Democratic party to vote for Trump.

I know that when you go back and watch the end of Michael Moore's film, The Big One, pretty much every word that comes out of Phil Knight's mouth about Americans not wanting to do factory work making shoes sounds like present day Democratic talking points, and pretty much everything Michael Moore says trying to convince him to bring those jobs to places like Flint Michigan sounds like present day MAGA.

The whole world has flipped on its head.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

You kidding me?

He literally ordered the DOJ to investigate Chris Krebs and Miles Taylor for stating that there wasn't evidence the 2020 election was stolen.

He had a judge publicly arrested at her own courthouse on the absolute thinnest evidence of ant crime.

Pull your head out of your ass.

And because you are perfectly consistent, I'm sure you take issue with Romania annulling election results and Germany attempting to ban AfD right?

AfD being labelled an extremist organization is something you take issue with because it's a bunch of bull shit right?

 

[jeremyemilio]

As usual, more right wing projection. Conservatives were so but hurt by Obama they cosplayed as revolutionary war soldiers and so butt hurt by Biden they stormed the Capitol and killed people.

They did storm the capital, but they didn't kill people. It doesn't help the debate in any way to make false claims.

Trump and his cronies fomented a dangerous level of anti-democracy discord and tension through consistent lies and conspiracy theories about a stolen election and way too many of his fans fell for it and went along with it unthinkingly to the point of participating in a violent riot that, yes, did result in countless injuries as well as the deaths of 5 people:

One, a MAGA supporter shot by capitol police;
One, a MAGA supporter who died in the chaos of an OD;
One, a MAGA supporter who died in the chaos of a heart attack;
One, a MAGA supporter who died in the chaos of a stroke;
And one, a police officer who died the next day of a heart attack.

That's plenty to pin on them without claiming they killed people. Those sorts of imprecise accusations do nothing but give them room to wiggle out of accountability.

 

[Corona]

When he stops getting Eiffel towered by putcan and bibi while Elon cucks watches in the corner imo

 

[jk7707]

And because you are perfectly consistent, I'm sure you take issue with Romania annulling election results and Germany attempting to ban AfD right?

AfD being labelled an extremist organization is something you take issue with because it's a bunch of bull shit right?

Is this a thread about Romanian or German policies?

No?

Fuck off with your pathetic whataboutism

 

[SurferH2O]

The government begins threatening public officials. <----- You are here.

We are there and it's well deserved. Judge Hannah Dugan and Judge Joel Cano belongs in prison.

Then we have scumbags like this weirdo. They/Them is Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty.

The investigators and prosecutors were furious when they/them refused to press charges against a domestic terrorist that vandalized Tesla's to the tune of over $20K.

Tesla vandal won't be charged: Hennepin County Attorney explains decision

No charges for Tesla vandal in Minneapolis: Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty explained her decision to seek diversion over criminal charges for the vandal, saying it was made "the best interest of public safety."

www.fox9.com

Now the rotten they/them has a new policy. The policy tells prosecutors to consider a defendant's race when negotiating plea deals, while simultaneously noting racial identity isn't "grounds for departures" from sentencing guidelines.

Hennepin County Attorney faces DOJ investigation over race policy

The Department of Justice announced it is investigating a new policy from Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty that tells prosecutors to consider race while negotiating plea deals.

www.fox9.com

Thankfully, a friend of mine, Michael Gates, who until very recently was our elected City Attorney here in Huntington Beach, CA was tapped and is now the Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Civil Rights Division, U.S. DOJ. He is spearheading the effort to investigate they/them and every American should be glad he is. Michael Gates is extremely competent. It's going to be fun to watch.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Michael Gates, who until very recently was our elected City Attorney here in Huntington Beach, CA was tapped and is now the Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Civil Rights Division, U.S. DOJ

Ive heard of him:

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

Is this a thread about Romanian or German policies?

No?

Fuck off with your pathetic whataboutism

As expected you're full of shit.

Cause and effect, keep ignoring those issues and you'll get more Trump like figures bending you over while we all clap.

Pull your head out of your ass.

 

[Codpiece]

Not a US citizen so my opinion isn’t of any consequence.

I think Trump is a very mixed bag, but better by far than Biden was and Kamala would have been for the US. What would it take for me to reverse that opinion?

- incarcerating US citizens in a foreign country
- deploying the army domestically (though there could be caveats to that one)
- dissolving congress (can’t see him doing that)
- refusing to leave power after this current term

Threatening public servants’ job security is OK if they aren’t performing a needed function or are incompetent. Suggesting that some public servants deserve jail time for corruption is also fine IF that person can be credibly accused of corruption, like Biden. I don’t think it should be done willy-nilly or to get cheers at a rally. Trump’s been on the wrong end of what he’d consider some spurious legal proceedings and should be measured in how he calls for proceedings for others.

His rhetoric in general is needlessly divisive. I get he wants to be unpredictable and make people perceive him a certain way, but speaking flippantly about annexing Canada or posting images of himself as the Pope is extremely unbecoming of a world leader. Especially for one of the US President’s stature.

 

[jsbx45]

The party that ignored drone strikes on our citizens, bought the impeachments from the Steele dossier, encouraged the lawfare on Trump, etc. Is now concerned about over-reach?

Sulla could begin the proscriptions tomorrow and I will just smile.

Drone srikes on our own citizens? Where and when? Agree the impeachments were bordering on ridiculous and the Biden justice department campaign against Trump was obsessive and ridiculous also.

 

[44nutman]

If 80 year old Sundowning Trump could even get a boner and fuck their wife MAGA supporters would be cool with it. Confirmation bias media has trained them to defend anything.
A President saying he does not have to uphold the Constitution used to have Americans getting their guns ready but now it makes them say Kamala would be much worse.