Striking numbers for Sandhagen vs Dillashaw

[Humongo]

Wow, things just went from bad to worse after seeing that and rewatching the fight. I am still trying to figure out how every judge gave TJ round 1 when he was out landed, rocked, had his knee shredded and put in a deep triangle.

I was really pulling for TJ to come back and look amazing, steamroll the young gun, but when a decision is that bad you just have to call it out. Little leg kicks, "walking forward" like Homer Simpson and hugging are evidently valued way too high under UFC scoring criteria. As Dana once said, "it's about damage".

lmao just started watching the fight 5 minutes ago, out of curiosity because the comments. In what fucking world did Sandhagen won the first round? He literally landed one knee and the rest of the round was TJ all over him.

 

[PurpleDrank]

lmao just started watching the fight 5 minutes ago, out of curiosity because the comments. In what fucking world did Sandhagen won the first round? He literally landed one knee and the rest of the round was TJ all over him.

Ya I scored that round for TJ, but to plays devil advocate he did do the most damage . Aka fucking up TJs knee. Not enough to win it for me tho

 

[robbie]

How many knock downs did TJ get? How many times did TJ snap Cory's head back from strikes? Now answer those same questions regarding Cory. Cory got one knockdown. Head snaps from strikes often. All strikes are not alike especially if they are glancing vs. flush. In addition, TJ did nothing with his control time and yes he was coming forward, but he also got pieced up pretty badly in the process because Cory's shots were landing FLUSH.

There are very few TJ highlights and considerable Cory highlights. Judges need to be able to do more than keep track of basic stats in order to determine who won a round. For example, let's say Fighter A "lands" 20 significant strikes in Round 1 but no knockdowns and no snapping of the head or creating wobbly legs. Assume Fighter B "lands" 10 significant strikes, several that snapped his opponents head back, he got a knock down and Fighter B was wobbly when he got up. Further assume that 2 of those significant strikes were unchecked calf kicks that appeared to affect Fighter A's movement and balance. Fighter A landed 2x as many significant strikes, was he more effective and did he win the round? Not in my book. Judges have to understand who is more effective and not simply count strikes and tally control time that was of no consequence. Glancing strikes are not equal to flush strikes.

 

[HeffDoesWant]

2 of 19 takedowns.....

They really fucked the scoring by removing stuffing takedowns/takedown defense from effective grappling - #1 bullshit.

Completely disagree.

TDD is its own reward, TD attempts are aggression but wouldn't count them as effective if unsuccessful of course.

Same as missed punches.

 

[The Penetrator]

I honestly cant understand how anyone would give the win to TJ here...

IDK why people see moving forward as winning the fight. There are so many strikers that move back and counter, do damage and land strikes, like Sandhagen did vs Tj.

TJ jumps in, hits nothing but air, eats couple of fists, and judges are wow hes agressive hes wininng...

dude got busted up entire fight, and forced hugging and clinching to avoid getting lit up to the face like he did entire fight.

Control time... cmon.. now we counting seconds someone is having the underhooks and it has the advantage over eating fists... Number 1 bullshit

 

[Iron Nick]

5th round Cory should have known it was 2-2 and did a little more

I'm pretty sure the 5th round was scored for him, so unless you wanted him to 10-8 TJ, i'm not sure what you mean..

 

[Iron Nick]

These stats are irrelevant. Fights are scored on a round by round basis. Many of these strikes may have been accumulated by Sandhagen during one or two rounds. It’d funny how stats are thrown out here by people who don’t have any understanding of the scoring rules which are applied to the fights…

I absolutely understand how fights are scored you helmet, which is why i said that there was a legitimate case for either fighter winning 3-2.
Nonetheless Cory deserved to win more as in a fight that could've been scored either way, he did (way) more damage.

 

[Tito Tapped]

I put exactly 0% stock into any generated fight statistics. Watch the fight and score it for yourself.

 

[Iron Nick]

How many knock downs did TJ get? How many times did TJ snap Cory's head back from strikes? Now answer those same questions regarding Cory. Cory got one knockdown. Head snaps from strikes often. All strikes are not alike especially if they are glancing vs. flush. In addition, TJ did nothing with his control time and yes he was coming forward, but he also got pieced up pretty badly in the process because Cory's shots were landing FLUSH.

There are very few TJ highlights and considerable Cory highlights. Judges need to be able to do more than keep track of basic stats in order to determine who won a round. For example, let's say Fighter A "lands" 20 significant strikes in Round 1 but no knockdowns and no snapping of the head or creating wobbly legs. Assume Fighter B "lands" 10 significant strikes, several that snapped his opponents head back, he got a knock down and Fighter B was wobbly when he got up. Further assume that 2 of those significant strikes were unchecked calf kicks that appeared to affect Fighter A's movement and balance. Fighter A landed 2x as many significant strikes, was he more effective and did he win the round? Not in my book. Judges have to understand who is more effective and not simply count strikes and tally control time that was of no consequence. Glancing strikes are not equal to flush strikes.

I honestly cant understand how anyone would give the win to TJ here...

IDK why people see moving forward as winning the fight. There are so many strikers that move back and counter, do damage and land strikes, like Sandhagen did vs Tj.

TJ jumps in, hits nothing but air, eats couple of fists, and judges are wow hes agressive hes wininng...

dude got busted up entire fight, and forced hugging and clinching to avoid getting lit up to the face like he did entire fight.

Control time... cmon.. now we counting seconds someone is having the underhooks and it has the advantage over eating fists... Number 1 bullshit

Round by round it's not a stretch to score it 3-2 for TJ, but yeah, like i said: feels wrong that the guy taking significantly less damage is the winner.

 

[56in]

I absolutely understand how fights are scored you helmet, which is why i said that there was a legitimate case for either fighter winning 3-2.
Nonetheless Cory deserved to win more as in a fight that could've been scored either way, he did (way) more damage.

Ok.

 

[Franklin U.]

I'm not one of those guys who says " a title challenger has to win decisively or it has to be crystal clear ". That's silly. I bring this up cause this would be the type of ultra close fight where if Sandhagen did have the title , I'd swing it in his favor .

This wasnt a title fight and I had the fight 2-2 going into the 5th. I thought Tj edged it out . Shagen caught Tj with some solid jabs but Dilly returned the favor and was moving forward . I keep on hearing all this damage - it was a nasty cut ( we still dont know when ,if or how serious tj knee/leg injury).
This would be the perfect example of a title fight , a contenders fight and the outcome.

* as everyone should ( as I always say)- in an important close fight, I'll watch again.....especially 5th round.

 

[JackBlack]

How many knock downs did TJ get? How many times did TJ snap Cory's head back from strikes? Now answer those same questions regarding Cory. Cory got one knockdown. Head snaps from strikes often. All strikes are not alike especially if they are glancing vs. flush. In addition, TJ did nothing with his control time and yes he was coming forward, but he also got pieced up pretty badly in the process because Cory's shots were landing FLUSH.

There are very few TJ highlights and considerable Cory highlights. Judges need to be able to do more than keep track of basic stats in order to determine who won a round. For example, let's say Fighter A "lands" 20 significant strikes in Round 1 but no knockdowns and no snapping of the head or creating wobbly legs. Assume Fighter B "lands" 10 significant strikes, several that snapped his opponents head back, he got a knock down and Fighter B was wobbly when he got up. Further assume that 2 of those significant strikes were unchecked calf kicks that appeared to affect Fighter A's movement and balance. Fighter A landed 2x as many significant strikes, was he more effective and did he win the round? Not in my book. Judges have to understand who is more effective and not simply count strikes and tally control time that was of no consequence. Glancing strikes are not equal to flush strikes.

The leg shots that took away Cory's movement, messed up his timing and made his leg look like a chewed up jerky weren't "flush strikes"? It seems your issue is that you value head strikes far more than you value leg strikes.

Unfortunately for Cory, he did the majority of his damage in one round and spent the rest of the fight backing up, eating leg strikes and giving up his back.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

The current judging system is designed to reward point based fighters. Picking a winner based off damage done or strikes landed is prehistoric.

TJ was more aggressive, had Cory backing up the whole fight, and had over 8 mins of control time in the grappling which proved to be the deciding factor.

Aggression and octagon control are only factors when the striking and grappling are equal. Striking should factor more than grappling as well when the fight is mostly striking and vise versa when it is mostly grappling. Since the fight was mostly on the feet the guy who landed more and did more damage should have won.

The current judging criteria was changed to do the opposite of what you claim by emphasizing damage as a scoring criteria and reduces scoring for control time and takedowns that don't lead to strikes, advancing position or submission attempts.

 

[ultramanhyata]

they should count how many times TJ clinched him and held him to the fence and got his back. it would be like 40 to Corey's 0.

TJ needed some breaks from getting pieced and busted up. Can't really blame him for all the hugging.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Tracking sub attempts is dumb in the first place, there's no extra points given for a sub. attempt aside from control time. There's no category in scoring for "sub attempts" just effective grappling, which is determined by control of positions/time.

Submission attempts are absolutely scored.

 

[JackBlack]

I absolutely understand how fights are scored you helmet, which is why i said that there was a legitimate case for either fighter winning 3-2.
Nonetheless Cory deserved to win more as in a fight that could've been scored either way, he did (way) more damage.

So if a fighter does more overall damage, but that damage is confined to 1-2 rounds, he should win a 5 round fight, even though each round is scored individually? You say you understand how scoring works... but do you really?

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Completely disagree.

TDD is its own reward, TD attempts are aggression but wouldn't count them as effective if unsuccessful of course.

Same as missed punches.

Defense prevents the other guy from scoring or reduces how much they score. I don't know why some people don't seem to get that and want to score it as offense as well for some reason.

 

[fizzlehiss]

Head strikes > leg strikes.
Sandhagen rocked TJ multiple times and his shots were clearly more impactful.

 

[robbie]

The leg shots that took away Cory's movement, messed up his timing and made his leg look like a chewed up jerky weren't "flush strikes"? It seems your issue is that you value head strikes far more than you value leg strikes.

Unfortunately for Cory, he did the majority of his damage in one round and spent the rest of the fight backing up, eating leg strikes and giving up his back.

TJ won R1. Cory won R2 in very dominant fashion perhaps good enough for 10-8, but likely just a little shy. So now we have to look carefully at rounds 3 through 5. Please share with me what rounds beyond R2 did TJ's leg strikes wobble or hinder Cory's movement? Where did you get the "chewed up jerky appearance" for Cory's legs. I never saw any of that leg damage, which if you want to talk about damage lets look at TJ's face from getting blasted from accurate flush strikes.

Did TJ disrupt Cory with his forward pressure and cause Cory to fight differently than his game plan? Yes, Cory ended up fighting a counter-puncher fight and was piecing TJ up which is why his face was busted up and his head was snapped back so often. Please share with me the TJ highlights beyond R1. There are very few because he wasn't as effective in the striking. Ali and Mayweather are examples of successful counter-puncher fighters. Not everyone is a forward offensive fighter like Tyson or Manny P.

Beyond R1, what did TJ do with his control time? Did TJ get TD's that led to GnP? Did TJ get TD's that led to solid submission attempts? Did TJ land big shots when Cody was exiting the clinches? The answers are NO, NO and NO. I'm a former wrestler, so I'm happy to give MMA fighters credit for wrestling advantages, but TJ's wrestling advantage and control time were of no real consequence and relatively immaterial.

Not all strikes are created equal. FACT.

 

[JackBlack]

TJ won R1. Cory won R2 in very dominant fashion perhaps good enough for 10-8, but likely just a little shy. So now we have to look carefully at rounds 3 through 5. Please share with me what rounds beyond R2 did TJ's leg strikes wobble or hinder Cory's movement? Where did you get the "chewed up jerky appearance" for Cory's legs. I never saw any of that leg damage, which if you want to talk about damage lets look at TJ's face from getting blasted from accurate flush strikes.

Did TJ disrupt Cory with his forward pressure and cause Cory to fight differently than his game plan? Yes, Cory ended up fighting a counter-puncher fight and was piecing TJ up which is why his face was busted up and his head was snapped back so often. Please share with me the TJ highlights beyond R1. There are very few because he wasn't as effective in the striking. Ali and Mayweather are examples of successful counter-puncher fighters. Not everyone is a forward offensive fighter like Tyson or Manny P.

Beyond R1, what did TJ do with his control time? Did TJ get TD's that led to GnP? Did TJ get TD's that led to solid submission attempts? Did TJ land big shots when Cody was exiting the clinches? The answers are NO, NO and NO. I'm a former wrestler, so I'm happy to give MMA fighters credit for wrestling advantages, but TJ's wrestling advantage and control time were of no real consequence and relatively immaterial.

Not all strikes are created equal. FACT.

No need for me show the impact of the leg attacks because you already agree.

Did TJ disrupt Cory with his forward pressure and cause Cory to fight differently than his game plan? Yes

The leg strikes were a major part of TJ's forward pressure, and according to you, this caused Cory to fight differently. Outside of round 2, Cory did not have any major striking advantage. The numbers were close. This would mean you would have to move to the next criteria to judge those rounds. Who do you think wins via that next criteria?