Squatting

[miaou]

I refuse to believe what you are saying. This is not a shot at you personally it's just how I feel as human being.

I believe that if a person would stop and choose a sport now and think to him-/herself "that's something I want to do until I can't do it anymore" and then dedicated his/hers entire life to that sport I really think he/she could be great at it if not the best.

Just as long as they go full Niki Lauda on that sport I believe they can achieve greatness within it.

The bold part explains the story. It's called cognitive dissonance. How you feel or what you want or don't want to believe has no bearing on whether or not it is true.

What you said can be taken to the extreme to prove the underlying principle: a 5 foot even dude with short stubby limbs, a 65% slow-twitch fiber makeup, inefficient CNS, naturally low T, inflexible joints, slow reflexes and knock knees will never be a "great" basketball player. It doesn't matter how bad he wants it or how long and how hard he works at it.


Basically this:

 

[KidAlchemy]

The bold part explains the story. It's called cognitive dissonance. How you feel or what you want or don't want to believe has no bearing on whether or not it is true.

What you said can be taken to the extreme to prove the underlying principle: a 5 foot even dude with short stubby limbs, a 65% slow-twitch fiber makeup, inefficient CNS, naturally low T, inflexible joints, slow reflexes and knock knees will never be a "great" basketball player. It doesn't matter how bad he wants it or how long and how hard he works at it.

I think you're right :icon_lol: dammit!

If you go that far then yes that person might not be suitable to achieve greatness in basketball. Though you don't specifically have to go even that far. But I doubt there many 5 foot even guys who are willing to play basketball just because how they are.

I was just acting like hothead when I wrote and didn't see the big picture.

 

[miaou]

I think you're right :icon_lol: dammit!

If you go that far then yes that person might not be suitable to achieve greatness in basketball. Though you don't specifically have to go even that far. But I doubt there many 5 foot even guys who are willing to play basketball just because how they are.

I was just acting like hothead when I wrote and didn't see the big picture.

High five.

 

[KidAlchemy]

High five.

Here's to accepting our limitations

 

[Deleted member 382931]

To add to the discussion, motivation plays a pretty big role.

The aforementioned 5ft-slow-twitch guy will probably stop pursuing basketball and take up some other sport which fits his abilities.

Why? Because we are drawn to what were good at.
If somebody notices he is more suited for a specific sport, he will probably develop more interest in that activity and put more effort in it, because he enjoys it.

For an extreme example, if Misha Koklayev and Lance Armstrong would have switched position at a young age, both would probably never went that path. Lance Armstrong would never put up huge weights, regardless of his desire to excell in strength sports and the other way round.

In my opinion, genetics play an important role in athletic endeavors, but a more universal one than most think. It lays the groundwork and gives you your "ceiling" of possible devolpment, but you will never reach it (if it exists) unless you invest yourself into something.

 

[Keosawa]

The people that place at the top have the best genetics compared to everyone else. Are you denying this?

lol, I am denying this! I will share with you a little story:

Back in 2010 (I think), I did an intramural bench press competition. I competed at 170 lbs. and benched 300 to win my weight class. At the <150 lb. weight class, there was a kid who hit a perfectly-executed paused 340-lb. bench. Afterwards, I approached him:

Me: That was an amazing bench press. Have you ever thought about competing in powerlifting?

Him: Is there money in it?

Me: No.

Guess what his response was?

He shrugged his shoulders and walked away.

I have come across a pretty large number of people who very likely had better genetics than me, and you have no clue who any of them are. He was able to bench 340 at below 150 lbs. despite putting little to no thought into his training and not even training for strength. I have met others with better leverages for the sport than me: we have a squatter on our team who's max is around 450 at 180 lbs.' bodyweight, and he's been training for a year. He's born to squat.

Now, if he quits, that'll be the end of that. And that's what happens: people either quit, or they don't train hard, or they don't train consistently. You can't regularly take three months off from training and be world-class due to genetics, unless you're Joe Bradley.

So no, the lifters at the top are not the ones with the best genetics. Some are, but some aren't. There is really no direct correlation at all. I have met more than a few lifters at around my size who could have been better at this than me had they put in the years.

 

[Eric Brown]

I have come across a pretty large number of people who very likely had better genetics than me, and you have no clue who any of them are. He was able to bench 340 at below 150 lbs. despite putting little to no thought into his training and not even training for strength. I have met others with better leverages for the sport than me: we have a squatter on our team who's max is around 450 at 180 lbs.' bodyweight, and he's been training for a year. He's born to squat.

I have come across some lifters with just amazing potential. None of whom can be bothered to compete. And I mean IPF world's potential easily. This one fucking guy in the 90's trained off and on, and I coached the guy for six weeks making sure he knew the commands, etc. and actually helped him focus his training. He easily won his class at 275, destroying some fairly accomplished lifters. With a year of consistent training, he could have easily totaled 2100 at 275 raw, just could not be bothered to do it. Still pisses me off when I think about it.

 

[dinpappa]

I have come across some lifters with just amazing potential. None of whom can be bothered to compete. And I mean IPF world's potential easily. This one fucking guy in the 90's trained off and on, and I coached the guy for six weeks making sure he knew the commands, etc. and actually helped him focus his training. He easily won his class at 275, destroying some fairly accomplished lifters. With a year of consistent training, he could have easily totaled 2100 at 275 raw, just could not be bothered to do it. Still pisses me off when I think about it.

Drug free?

 

[Eric Brown]

Drug free?

Yeah. Unfortunately motivation free as well. His entire family stepped out of a Wild Kingdom documentary, and I mean that in a good way. His mother, easily in her sixties, look like she could really fuck somebody up.

 

[LegioTitan]

Legit lol.

 

[Ghost Ape]

Explain to me Olympic curling then.

I would think that curling counts as one of the sports that has a very small number of competitors, it's only very recently been counted as a true Winter Olympic sport. Maybe in the future if it gets more popular there will be more of an athletic element involved. But as it is, there was a news article about how Olympic Curlers were getting into shape by using an exercise bike once in a while...

I think you're right :icon_lol: dammit!

If you go that far then yes that person might not be suitable to achieve greatness in basketball. Though you don't specifically have to go even that far. But I doubt there many 5 foot even guys who are willing to play basketball just because how they are.

I was just acting like hothead when I wrote and didn't see the big picture.

His example is extreme, but you can apply it to most sports. Very very few college athletes, even star college athletes, make it to the pros. Many of them have spent a decade playing their sport and trained very hard but weren't good enough. Even when you make it to the pros, your body may not be able to resist injuries and that can be the end of your career. That's just the way it is.

In my opinion, genetics play an important role in athletic endeavors, but a more universal one than most think. It lays the groundwork and gives you your "ceiling" of possible devolpment, but you will never reach it (if it exists) unless you invest yourself into something.

Absolutely

I have come across a pretty large number of people who very likely had better genetics than me, and you have no clue who any of them are. He was able to bench 340 at below 150 lbs. despite putting little to no thought into his training and not even training for strength. I have met others with better leverages for the sport than me: we have a squatter on our team who's max is around 450 at 180 lbs.' bodyweight, and he's been training for a year. He's born to squat. Now, if he quits, that'll be the end of that. And that's what happens: people either quit, or they don't train hard, or they don't train consistently. You can't regularly take three months off from training and be world-class due to genetics, unless you're Joe Bradley.

That's true, but we're talking about people who actually compete in the sport. There are weightlifters that are better at squatting than they are at weightlifting. There are basketball players that could be better at track events than basketball. I'm not claiming that the people with the best genetics in the world make it to the top spots in sports. But I think that the people who do make it to the top have better genetics than the people whom they compete against.

 

[KILL KILL]

lol, I am denying this! I will share with you a little story:

Back in 2010 (I think), I did an intramural bench press competition. I competed at 170 lbs. and benched 300 to win my weight class. At the <150 lb. weight class, there was a kid who hit a perfectly-executed paused 340-lb. bench. Afterwards, I approached him:

Me: That was an amazing bench press. Have you ever thought about competing in powerlifting?

Him: Is there money in it?

Me: No.

Guess what his response was?

He shrugged his shoulders and walked away.

I have come across a pretty large number of people who very likely had better genetics than me, and you have no clue who any of them are. He was able to bench 340 at below 150 lbs. despite putting little to no thought into his training and not even training for strength. I have met others with better leverages for the sport than me: we have a squatter on our team who's max is around 450 at 180 lbs.' bodyweight, and he's been training for a year. He's born to squat.

Now, if he quits, that'll be the end of that. And that's what happens: people either quit, or they don't train hard, or they don't train consistently. You can't regularly take three months off from training and be world-class due to genetics, unless you're Joe Bradley.

So no, the lifters at the top are not the ones with the best genetics. Some are, but some aren't. There is really no direct correlation at all. I have met more than a few lifters at around my size who could have been better at this than me had they put in the years.

I've run into a few "naturals". One of my friends weighed 138 and benched 315 in competition in highschool. I think he stopped working out after that.

Another time I was helping out my old highschool wrestling team. this big kid came in (had never played a single sport or worked out in his life) and was easily the most naturally strong person I've ever met. I tought him how to do a duck under the first practice and told him that when he got behind me, he should take me to the mat (I should have specified how). He picked me up and literally suplexed me so fast that I almost did a full flip in mid air. mind you I was about 230 at the time.

 

[Gfreak]

I've run into a few "naturals". One of my friends weighed 138 and benched 315 in competition in highschool. I think he stopped working out after that.

Another time I was helping out my old highschool wrestling team. this big kid came in (had never played a single sport or worked out in his life) and was easily the most naturally strong person I've ever met. I tought him how to do a duck under the first practice and told him that when he got behind me, he should take me to the mat (I should have specified how). He picked me up and literally suplexed me so fast that I almost did a full flip in mid air. mind you I was about 230 at the time.

Damn lol, I had a friend of mine like this. He was doing bodybuilding style workouts for about a year or so, and I made him start squatting with me. (although he was pretty heavy...like 230) in 2 months he was squatting 365x5x5 fairly easily with good form. And pulled 500 his first time ever deadlifting.

 

[Keosawa]

But I think that the people who do make it to the top have better genetics than the people whom they compete against.

I am ranked higher than one person who makes massive strides in his lifting whenever he feels like it, but his focus is so split between powerlifting, Olympic lifting, and CrossFit that he never gets the concentrated training time to reach his potential in powerlifting.

If we were to do the same meet, and I were to beat him by fifty pounds or whatever, you'd say I have better genetics, but that's simply not the case.

There are SO many other variables at play that it simply doesn't work that way. For instance, those of you shouting genetics might not realize this, but the best lighter-weight female powerlifters in the world are almost all over 40 years old, and many are in their 50s. In that instance, training time matters much, much, much more than genetics. A lot of these women started out with pretty pedestrian numbers and no legitimate prior training. In fact, I would say that training time, among all powerlifters, is a more legitimate determinant for what allows a lifter to be "world-class" than genetics are.

 

[CRZA]

I agree. Freaks like lilliebridge, jesse norris, etc are exceptions to that rule offcourse.

Even though. Eric lilliebridge probably started really early.

 

[Fighting Sprite]

I agree. Freaks like lilliebridge, jesse norris, etc are exceptions to that rule offcourse.

Even though. Eric lilliebridge probably started really early.

I'd have to track down his issue of power magazine to put an exact figure on it, but I'm positive he's put in a decade already.

 

[Oblivian]

I am ranked higher than one person who makes massive strides in his lifting whenever he feels like it, but his focus is so split between powerlifting, Olympic lifting, and CrossFit that he never gets the concentrated training time to reach his potential in powerlifting.

If we were to do the same meet, and I were to beat him by fifty pounds or whatever, you'd say I have better genetics, but that's simply not the case.

There are SO many other variables at play that it simply doesn't work that way. For instance, those of you shouting genetics might not realize this, but the best lighter-weight female powerlifters in the world are almost all over 40 years old, and many are in their 50s. In that instance, training time matters much, much, much more than genetics. A lot of these women started out with pretty pedestrian numbers and no legitimate prior training. In fact, I would say that training time, among all powerlifters, is a more legitimate determinant for what allows a lifter to be "world-class" than genetics are.

It utterly amazed me that people can be as simple minded to think that the people at the top in sports automatically have the best genetics. All of us should be fairly familiar with MMA. A couple years ago, Jon Fitch was the #2 Welterweight in the world. Can someone can honestly sit there and say he has better genetics than all of the people that were ranked below him? You can see this quite a bit in MMA or other grappling sports as they are fringe sports, just like powerlifting (which is even more of a fringe sport).

There are so many factors that can have lifters not reach their genetic potential. There will always be people competing that have pushed it towards their genetic potential while others ranked below aren't there yet. It's an extremely tall ladder to climb to get to your genetic potential, and to automatically think the leaderboard is a direct representation of the best genes is honestly facepalm worthy.

 

[NurseKnuckles]

The best jeans by far were Levis 501

 

[toonie]

The best jeans by far were Levis 501

Legit lol. Funny you say that since they use that same pun throughout my university science department.

 

[LegioTitan]

The best jeans by far were Levis 501

Then clearly you haven't worn any Lucky Brand jeans. They're like pajamas. I used to have a few pairs when I was bigger. Perhaps I'll buy some more when I have a few hundred bucks lying about...