Squatting

[redaxe]

^Maybe, but I think the fact that he does a metric fuck-ton of squats has a little bit more to do with it.

I agree with Cratos on this one--put in the damn reps, keep adding weight to the bar, and make incremental form adjustments over time as needed. Don't overthink it, you'll figure out the best form for you as you progress.

 

[TeddyRoosevelt]

^Maybe, but I think the fact that he does a metric fuck-ton of squats has a little bit more to do with it.

I agree with Cratos on this one--put in the damn reps, keep adding weight to the bar, and make incremental form adjustments over time as needed. Don't overthink it, you'll figure out the best form for you as you progress.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that, merely pointing out that the 'I succeed simply because I work harder than everyone else' attitude is often unjustified. And that comment is not localized to Cratos.

 

[Cratos]

To be fair, you pretty clearly have genetics more favorable to strength training than many on here. I am not doubting you work hard, and not implying you have elite genetics. But given your progression in the amount of time it has taken, your body type and how it has 'filled out,' your bodies ability to respond to suboptimal sleep and nutrition habits, it is reasonably clear that your genetic expression is well above average in it's adaptation to strength training. Hard work isn't the only relevant factor in development, and it is important to acknowledge such.

Do I, though? My progression is pretty damn slow, at this point, and I'm only 4 years in.

Also, my body has about a bazillion miles on it. Six shattered vertebrae before I even start lifting? Then again, I guess Benni broke his back...

I just want it badly. If I'm not getting better, I lose motivation. It's been the same for anything I've ever participated in. Sports, academics, lifting, etc. I don't see the point in doing things unless you're constantly trying to get better.

I know, for a fact, that I work harder than 99% of people. I don't really have any issue stating that, if it comes up, either.

 

[TeddyRoosevelt]

Do I, though? My progression is pretty damn slow, at this point, and I'm only 4 years in.

Also, my body has about a bazillion miles on it. Six shattered vertebrae before I even start lifting? Then again, I guess Benni broke his back...

I just want it badly. If I'm not getting better, I lose motivation. It's been the same for anything I've ever participated in. Sports, academics, lifting, etc. I don't see the point in doing things unless you're constantly trying to get better.

I know, for a fact, that I work harder than 99% of people. I don't really have any issue stating that, if it comes up, either.

I guess it's a moot point, because it's almost impossible to prove either way. But I think there is a fairly easy argument to make that your body responds better to volume/intensity, lack of sleep/good food, and alcohol consumption better than many others. Your work capacity is pretty excellent. And it seems that you work damn hard and take full advantage of that work capacity, but I'd guess a lot of people around here couldn't develop/sustain that work.capacity without repeated injury and other 'breakdowns.' You do a ton of heavy reps, and I am in no way questioning your mental motivation in the gym.

 

[Donut62]

I had no idea about step 4. That made a huge difference, although I feel like my ribs popped a little in the hole. Thanks cratos!

Old school sig, you still my bro.

 

[PUO3]

This thread was fun.

 

[Keosawa]

But given your progression in the amount of time it has taken, your body type and how it has 'filled out,' your bodies ability to respond to suboptimal sleep and nutrition habits, it is reasonably clear that your genetic expression is well above average in it's adaptation to strength training.

Let's be perfectly honest here. Imagine a scenario in which you, or anyone else currently training, is informed by a doctor tomorrow that you have the greatest "genetics" observed in the history of mankind.

What does that do for your training?

My guess is that the large majority of people see all aspects of their training increase almost instantly. Their work capacity goes up, as does their strength levels, and they make more progress, faster, than they were before.

Genetics matter. But there are a lot of things that matter. And chances are, every single person on here can find someone at an elite level with worse "genetics" than they. Cratos is not at a level in which his physique or his strength is genetically "off-limits" for just about anyone.

Here is what I have learned over the last few years:

A.) Most good lifters only "have good genetics" once they've hit a strong total. NOBODY told me my genetics were good when I started lifting. I was weak as shit and a lousy athlete in every other sport I had participated in. On my first-ever lower-body training session, I had a PT get me to quarter-squat 185 on a smith machine for a hard set of 6; I did two one-minute sets of bodyweight crunches and two sets of quad extensions before I was puking outside. I was sore for the next week, and I doubt seriously that anyone was impressed with my genetics (I was already 20 years old at this time).

B.) You can't change your genetics, and you can't see them. Some are etched visibly on your body (your height, your leverages, etc.), but most are not. If you can't change them, and you can't observe them, then you might as well fool yourself into believing you have the best genetics in the world. Your training will be better for it.

C.) Genetics are just one variable among many. Take an average person and have them put the same amount of time and effort into training as a world-record holder for a span of a decade: at worst, they'll be at an elite level by the time they're done. Genetics matter, but nobody ever reaches their genetic potential. Ever.

/rant

 

[Ghost Ape]

Please make a similar thread about benching.

 

[KILL KILL]

Let's be perfectly honest here. Imagine a scenario in which you, or anyone else currently training, is informed by a doctor tomorrow that you have the greatest "genetics" observed in the history of mankind.

What does that do for your training?

My guess is that the large majority of people see all aspects of their training increase almost instantly. Their work capacity goes up, as does their strength levels, and they make more progress, faster, than they were before.

Genetics matter. But there are a lot of things that matter. And chances are, every single person on here can find someone at an elite level with worse "genetics" than they. Cratos is not at a level in which his physique or his strength is genetically "off-limits" for just about anyone.

Here is what I have learned over the last few years:

A.) Most good lifters only "have good genetics" once they've hit a strong total. NOBODY told me my genetics were good when I started lifting. I was weak as shit and a lousy athlete in every other sport I had participated in. On my first-ever lower-body training session, I had a PT get me to quarter-squat 185 on a smith machine for a hard set of 6; I did two one-minute sets of bodyweight crunches and two sets of quad extensions before I was puking outside. I was sore for the next week, and I doubt seriously that anyone was impressed with my genetics (I was already 20 years old at this time).

B.) You can't change your genetics, and you can't see them. Some are etched visibly on your body (your height, your leverages, etc.), but most are not. If you can't change them, and you can't observe them, then you might as well fool yourself into believing you have the best genetics in the world. Your training will be better for it.

C.) Genetics are just one variable among many. Take an average person and have them put the same amount of time and effort into training as a world-record holder for a span of a decade: at worst, they'll be at an elite level by the time they're done. Genetics matter, but nobody ever reaches their genetic potential. Ever.

/rant

jesus.......you threw up from leg extensions?

 

[Pearse Shields]

jesus.......you threw up from leg extensions?

Don't be mean. I've had a young kid throw up from some pretty basic stuff, which really caught me off guard. He seemed to be handling the session well, until he ran out the door and chundered into the garden.

 

[Tosa]

I'm waiting to hear an elite athlete tell the story about how he has really great genetics, but doesn't work that hard. Or how he has really great genetics and works really hard. Somehow I don't recall ever hearing those stories.

 

[miaou]

Let's be perfectly honest here. Imagine a scenario in which you, or anyone else currently training, is informed by a doctor tomorrow that you have the greatest "genetics" observed in the history of mankind.

What does that do for your training?

My guess is that the large majority of people see all aspects of their training increase almost instantly. Their work capacity goes up, as does their strength levels, and they make more progress, faster, than they were before.

Genetics matter. But there are a lot of things that matter. And chances are, every single person on here can find someone at an elite level with worse "genetics" than they. Cratos is not at a level in which his physique or his strength is genetically "off-limits" for just about anyone.

Here is what I have learned over the last few years:

A.) Most good lifters only "have good genetics" once they've hit a strong total. NOBODY told me my genetics were good when I started lifting. I was weak as shit and a lousy athlete in every other sport I had participated in. On my first-ever lower-body training session, I had a PT get me to quarter-squat 185 on a smith machine for a hard set of 6; I did two one-minute sets of bodyweight crunches and two sets of quad extensions before I was puking outside. I was sore for the next week, and I doubt seriously that anyone was impressed with my genetics (I was already 20 years old at this time).

B.) You can't change your genetics, and you can't see them. Some are etched visibly on your body (your height, your leverages, etc.), but most are not. If you can't change them, and you can't observe them, then you might as well fool yourself into believing you have the best genetics in the world. Your training will be better for it.

C.) Genetics are just one variable among many. Take an average person and have them put the same amount of time and effort into training as a world-record holder for a span of a decade: at worst, they'll be at an elite level by the time they're done. Genetics matter, but nobody ever reaches their genetic potential. Ever.

/rant

I disagree with almost every position in this post.

The large majority of people won't have any instant/dramatic increase in their training progress if you told them they had great genetics.

A great deal of people could never get to cratos' strength levels, certainly not without "special assistance".

Fooling yourself into believing you have the best genetics in the world will not necessarily benefit your training.

A great deal of people could never become elite-level athletes at a pre-specified sport no matter what amount of time and effort they put in.


I've never complained about my genetics, and don't let the possibility of "bad genetics" negatively impact my motivation or my resolve in my pursuit of achieving my goals. But the above statements are just way off.

 

[CRZA]

Not really sure what cratos's numbers are,
But you dont think most people can reach 520/320/600 @ 215 with hard work and dedication alone?

 

[miaou]

Not really sure what cratos's numbers are,
But you dont think most people can reach 520/320/600 @ 215 with hard work and dedication alone?

A lot of people? yes.

Most people? Maybe, maybe not.

Just about anyone? Most certainly not.

 

[LegioTitan]

I've seen pussy put on a pedestal before... never strength though. lol

 

[Keosawa]

I disagree with almost every position in this post.

This applies to me, too, just in case you were wondering.

A great deal of people could never become elite-level athletes at a pre-specified sport no matter what amount of time and effort they put in.

Sorry, there must be a miscommunication here--I was specifically referencing powerlifting in my post, even if I didn't make that clear. I think it's fair to say that genetics matter far less in powerlifting than in other sports because:

a.) Weight classes allow for every conceivable body-type.
b.) Ideal leverages for the three lifts come into conflict with one another, insuring that there is no such thing as an across-the-board ideal body-type.
c.) Without much money to drive up interest, the sport is still poorly attended enough so that anyone, with some work, can become good.

Obviously, my chances of playing in the NBA were, from birth, zero. But that's another subject.

Not really sure what cratos's numbers are,
But you dont think most people can reach 520/320/600 @ 215 with hard work and dedication alone?

Well, there isn't a woman on the planet that could hit those numbers at that weight, so there's half of the population.

But I would say that the very large majority of the population could reach similar numbers (i.e. an "elite" level in powerlifting) at whatever their optimal bodyweight could be on sheer hard work and dedication. I won't assign a percentage, but it's high. The only thing that would keep some people from it would be injuries.

 

[Seriously-Dead]

All of this is bullshit without a scientific study proving it.

/SeriouslyDead

Aw, it's adorable that you spontaneously think of me throughout the day.

 

[Oblivian]

A.) Most good lifters only "have good genetics" once they've hit a strong total. NOBODY told me my genetics were good when I started lifting. I was weak as shit and a lousy athlete in every other sport I had participated in. On my first-ever lower-body training session, I had a PT get me to quarter-squat 185 on a smith machine for a hard set of 6; I did two one-minute sets of bodyweight crunches and two sets of quad extensions before I was puking outside. I was sore for the next week, and I doubt seriously that anyone was impressed with my genetics (I was already 20 years old at this time).

Not sure if everyone has seen this video or not, but it's pretty interesting hearing the genetics/background story of Kroc, Efferding, and Coan. It pretty much aligns with what you are saying.

 

[miaou]

Are you saying Ed Coan didn't have exceptional genetics for powerlifting?

 

[Oblivian]

Fuck if I know. I don't really follow powerlifting that closely so I don't know his history at all. I just know what was said on that video, more specifically in regards to Efferding and Kroc. Not really sure what to conclude from what Coan said.

I have no doubt that genetics play a role, but it is interesting to see that some top powerlifters may not come from very athletic parents or that they were pretty small throughout their early years. Too many people automatically assume that the guys at the top have great genetics.