Squatting

Are you saying Ed Coan didn't have exceptional genetics for powerlifting?

And the fact that you didn't also mention Kroc or Efferding is an admission on your part.
 
And the fact that you didn't also mention Kroc or Efferding is an admission on your part.

lolwut

I mentioned specifically Coan because people who knew/trained with him have said that he had ridiculous genetics (very wide frame for his height, huge hands, etc.).

The most explosive dude I've ever met in person (really skinny, extremely low BF%, extremely strong for his build, doesn't even lift, can jump and accelerate like nothing I've ever seen) told me how his PE and his track & field coach used to tell him he doesn't have the genetics for power sports and should do endurance stuff (his endurance sucks, even though he is slim/light).

My point is, because someone told you you had shitty genetics, doesn't mean you had shitty genetics. It just means you shouldn't put much weight to what dumb people have to say.
 
I have no doubt that genetics play a role, but it is interesting to see that some top powerlifters may not come from very athletic parents or that they were pretty small throughout their early years. Too many people automatically assume that the guys at the top have great genetics.

Whether your parents play sports or if you were small while growing up has nothing to do with anything. There isn't a person at "the top" in sports that doesn't have great genetics unless the sport has an extremely small number of competitors. Lamar Gant claims to have normal genetics and just worked hard, but he broke national or state records for reps in his weight class during his first workout. Kirk Karwoski says he just works hard, but he says he was squatting 400lb+ as a light 13 year old not long after he started lifting. Benni Magnusson, who broke his back while skiing and started lifting for the purpose of rehab and then deadlifted 971lb a few years later, claims to have been a little big for his age growing up but was otherwise normal.

The only great lifter I know of that seems to realize or at least acknowledges their genetics is Dennis Cieri.
http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/2880

My strength comes from my good genetics and 24 years of consistent intense training.

Having to try really hard is a given, I don't know why people fool themselves into thinking they can out-work genetics though.
 
My point is, because someone told you you had shitty genetics, doesn't mean you had shitty genetics. It just means you shouldn't put much weight to what dumb people have to say.

You mean Gattaca wasn't based on a true story, and most people can only attempt to make educated guesses about their genetics? And that a person's parentage, or physical abilities in a untrained state may not reflect how well they respond to training or their athletic potential?
 
Whether your parents play sports or if you were small while growing up has nothing to do with anything. There isn't a person at "the top" in sports that doesn't have great genetics unless the sport has an extremely small number of competitors. Lamar Gant claims to have normal genetics and just worked hard, but he broke national or state records for reps in his weight class during his first workout. Kirk Karwoski says he just works hard, but he says he was squatting 400lb+ as a light 13 year old not long after he started lifting. Benni Magnusson, who broke his back while skiing and started lifting for the purpose of rehab and then deadlifted 971lb a few years later, claims to have been a little big for his age growing up but was otherwise normal.

The only great lifter I know of that seems to realize or at least acknowledges their genetics is Dennis Cieri.
http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/2880



Having to try really hard is a given, I don't know why people fool themselves into thinking they can out-work genetics though.

Such as powerlifting?
 
Such as powerlifting?

Yea, if you're talking about the masters women single ply bench only military division of USAPL. If you're talking about the other weight classes that actually have more than one person in them, then no.
 
Lol - powerlifting is as fringe of a sport as they come. I'm really not sure what sports would really fall into your classification of "small number of competitors" if powerlifting doesn't. I really don't think everyone "at the top" in PL have "great genetics" assuming at the top means highly ranked in their respective weight classes.

Just like people use ATG and beltless to justify their shortcomings, many use the genetic excuse as well. The fact is most of the people at the top work harder, have devoted more time to it, and have made sacrifices that others aren't willing to make.
 
Not really sure what cratos's numbers are,
But you dont think most people can reach 520/320/600 @ 215 with hard work and dedication alone?

I don't think just anyone can reach those numbers, but I think that most people, if they worked as hard at lifting as Cratos does, could achieve a similar level of strength relative to their height, weight, age, and sex.
 
C.) Genetics are just one variable among many. Take an average person and have them put the same amount of time and effort into training as a world-record holder for a span of a decade: at worst, they'll be at an elite level by the time they're done.

Disagree entirely. There are countless people who train as hard and are as dedicated as much if not moreso that never reach an elite level.
 

So far you've argued that the athletic ability of someone's parents or the size of someone prior to excelling at lifting has nothing to do with the topic of genetics. Then you acted as though powerlifting wouldn't fall under a sport with "an extremely small number of competitors". We'll see these absolutely genetically gifted monsters competing at the local high school gymnasium PL meet for their top 10 ranking rather than using their leet genetics in a sport that could actually earn them a nice paycheck. Hopefully their sword trophy will do.
 
Lol - powerlifting is as fringe of a sport as they come.

This. You don't have to have excellent genetics to be a good or even a great squatter. Most people don't train for powerlifting, and most don't train for more than a few years before they quit.

If powerlifting had the world-wide cultural purchase of, say, soccer, then a.) the numbers would be MUCH higher, and b.) you would indeed need pretty damn good genetics in order to reach the top.

But because the standard isn't terribly high, that's not the case.
 
So far you've argued that the athletic ability of someone's parents or the size of someone prior to excelling at lifting has nothing to do with the topic of genetics.

It doesn't, not everyone's parents played any sports at all and how big you are as a kid doesn't mean much.

Then you acted as though powerlifting wouldn't fall under a sport with "an extremely small number of competitors". We'll see these absolutely genetically gifted monsters competing at the local high school gymnasium PL meet for their top 10 ranking rather than using their leet genetics in a sport that could actually earn them a nice paycheck. Hopefully their sword trophy will do.

The people that place at the top have the best genetics compared to everyone else. Are you denying this? And you can have top genetics and never make it in another sport, thousands of college and high school athletes have tried. Plus a lot of powerlifters were introduced to powerlifting through training for other sports.

This. You don't have to have excellent genetics to be a good or even a great squatter.

A good squatter? Yea you can get decently good if you put the time in. Great? Na, otherwise it wouldn't be considered great.
 
Just to clarify, if you're in the top ten of a WC in PLing you have great genes. srs question.
 
I am glad to have created another train wreck. My point was this: it's unfair to judge someone else's work ethic based solely upon your personal results relative to theirs. There are other factors, and if some of you don't agree that you have above average genetic propensity towards strength work, you are being ignorant.
 
It doesn't, not everyone's parents played any sports at all and how big you are as a kid doesn't mean much.

Yep - the parents attributes displayed through athletics have nothing to do with genetic makeup. Neither does the size of a child.

The people that place at the top have the best genetics compared to everyone else. Are you denying this? And you can have top genetics and never make it in another sport, thousands of college and high school athletes have tried. Plus a lot of powerlifters were introduced to powerlifting through training for other sports.

Are you even reading what you are typing? "The people that place at the top have the best genetics compared to everyone else". Right - so frequency of training, preparation, strategy, etc. have nothing to do with it? The person at the top is simply the guy with the best genes. Yet you can have "top genetics", yet still not make it? I'm curious for your dissertation on these specific PL genes.
 
Not really sure what cratos's numbers are,
But you dont think most people can reach 520/320/600 @ 215 with hard work and dedication alone?

I think so. But most people won't put in the hard work and make the sacrifices necessary to reach those #s.
 
Yep - the parents attributes displayed through athletics have nothing to do with genetic makeup.

Man this isn't how genetics works. There are many top-tier athletes with mediocre athlete children.

Neither does the size of a child.

How many big non-obese children do you know of? People I knew as kids that went on to be great athletes in college just looked like normal kids.

Are you even reading what you are typing? "The people that place at the top have the best genetics compared to everyone else". Right - so frequency of training, preparation, strategy, etc. have nothing to do with it? The person at the top is simply the guy with the best genes. Yet you can have "top genetics", yet still not make it? I'm curious for your dissertation on these specific PL genes.

I don't read what I type until someone quotes it. I'm saying when you are competing against the best then you are there ultimately because of your genetics. Everyone who can be considered among the best in their weight classes trains hard. The difference between them and "the rest" is that they don't get hurt, or they bounce back quickly after injuries, they can add weight to the bar faster, they recover better or whatever the scenario is. I'm not saying training doesn't matter, but if you look at the best they always progress pretty rapidly and stand out. And I said you can have great genetics and not make it in other sports. For instance, you have to be pretty special to stand out among the thousands of Division I college basketball players, and that still doesn't guarantee you'll see any playing time in the NBA. In powerlifting, you can compete if you are 16 or 60. Originally you said:

Too many people automatically assume that the guys at the top have great genetics.

I think you can't make it to the top without great genetics, though there's really no way to "prove" it.
 
I'm saying when you are competing against the best then you are there ultimately because of your genetics.


I think you can't make it to the top without great genetics, though there's really no way to "prove" it.

I refuse to believe what you are saying. This is not a shot at you personally it's just how I feel as human being.

I believe that if a person would stop and choose a sport now and think to him-/herself "that's something I want to do until I can't do it anymore" and then dedicated his/hers entire life to that sport I really think he/she could be great at it if not the best.

Just as long as they go full Niki Lauda on that sport I believe they can achieve greatness within it.
 
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